Wise Man's Fear Spoilers Thread (SPOILERS)

[Curethan]

Thx Joe, I can work with that.

re Kvothe's expulsion; what he did to the bandits was straight up mealefeance, he'll cop it worse than Devi.

[jurble]

Thx Joe, I can work with that.

re Kvothe's expulsion; what he did to the bandits was straight up mealefeance, he'll cop it worse than Devi.

'xactly, the way it'll happen, I think, the Uni will probably be entirely in the right, and Kvothe won't be able to blame Ambrose for it (but he probably will anyway).

[beny]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I knew there would be a 2nd trilogy. I know nothing.

This 2007 (so things may well have changed a lot) interview suggests a sequel trilogy.

http://www.sffworld.com/interview/224p0.html

But unsure if the information has now changed.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

beny,

I don't have time to listen to the interview right now. Did the interview indicate whether the sequel trilogy will be focused on Kvothe or just set in the Four Corners?

[Sariel]

On Chronicler perhaps? Isn't he from one of the branches of the Lockless family?

It would be a sort of neat turn if his interests in Kvothe's story turns out not to be for book writing purposes. The man knows the name of iron after all, he's more than he seems.

[pat5150]

Just heard that TWMF should debut rather high on the New York Times bestseller list. :)

Good for Pat!

Patrick

[Slick Mongoose]

Have we met an Amyr?

In Skarpi's story he says that the Amyr were given wings. Then in the Fae, when Kvothe and Felurian are running in the dark, and Kvothe creates a light using sympathy, Felurian tackles him to the ground. And a large winged something flies overhead. I need to reread that bit.

As much as I'm enjoying is thread its still only one thread where a good bit of the posts are trolls.

I have some things I would like to discuss but would prefer to bring them up in a dedicated Kingkiller Chronicles community to avoid having to read through pages of trolls that hate of the book simply because its beyond their understanding.

Come on, out with it! :) The more speculation the better.

You can put people on ignore if you don't want to read their posts.

[Slick Mongoose]

Another thought I had: How many people know who Kvothe's mother is?

He told the masters in his first admissions that his father was Arliden. And the story of how the Lackless heir ran off with a troop of Edema Ruh must be widely known, it certainly is in Vintas.

Lorren certainly knows, given his later reaction. And probably the rest of the masters as well - If they didn't know the story, Lorren could easily have told them. And if all the masters know, would they keep it secret?

Does Ambrose know? If the masters know, one of them could easily have told him. And the "Ruh bastard" note in the archives book may be more than just an insult - It's true, after all.

Do they all just assume Kvothe knows? That his arrogance is something more than just that of someone who knows he's good?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I just reread Kvothe's conversation with Elodin about Denna's name. Two things struck me, first that it is possible to change your "Name". Which is interesting because, presumably, learning an individual's "Name" is quite difficult because of how fluid "Names" appear to be. Given that they are fluid why does a change to one "Name" matter? Second, Elodin believes that both Kvothe and Fela are capable of changing their "Names". I find that point quite interesting.

[Slick Mongoose]

Given that they are fluid why does a change to one "Name" matter?

From what I can gather, a "name" is the sum of your personality, physique, experiences, location, maybe some other thigns too. It's fluid because these things are changing from moment to moment.

To change a "name" would presumably change these things outside of the ordinary course of events.

[ljkeane]

He told the masters in his first admissions that his father was Arliden. And the story of how the Lackless heir ran off with a troop of Edema Ruh must be widely known, it certainly is in Vintas.

The Ruh seem to be held in fairly low regard by most of the characters, I think it's possible that name of the Edema Ruh that his mother ran off with wouldn't be too important to most people.

[Foreverlad]

Wow.

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[Gaston de Foix]

One of the beautiful things about the Wise Man's Fear is how well Rothfuss integrates ordinary words, whether it is vintage or lackey or temper into the world he has created. I haven't seen anyone do it in fantasy, it is I think, an original contribution, to the genre. Can anyone else think of an example from another author?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Another thought. It seems pretty clear, given Bast's reaction to the Adem song about the Chandrian, that they are still out there threatening everything. I was really hoping Kvothe would figure out how to get at them. I'm willing to bet he will not have done so by the end of the third book.

[Guy Kilmore]

Bast is Fae, he's not a nice guy. He wants his master to be a hero like he used to be.

That is pretty much why he kills the soldiers. He is pro-Chronicler asking about Kvothe's life because he thinks that it will help snap him out of his funk. If Chronicler is unsuccessful of that fact and leaves town, I think he is a dead man. (The last thing Bast would want is to have whatever it is that Kvothe is hiding from find him while he is still "Kote".)

Now Bast kills the soldiers because they were not supposed to hurt/beat Kvothe. Kvothe was supposed to win with his usual awesomeness that Bast believes in. In my mind Bast kills the soldiers for two reasons. One, he feels guility he had them beat up his master a little. Two, a story running around that two random soldiers beat the crap out of Kvothe does nothing to restore Kvothe the Arcane, in Bast's mind. (He doesn't know that Kvothe's reaction to getting the snot beat out of him was to go practice the Ketan, so Bast was successful he just doesn't know it yet.)

A couple of random thoughts:

I am of the mind that Kvothe is changing his "name" so he is no longer who he once was. I think the plan was to change it a little or enough of it to be a different man. He has just gone too far and his Pride won't let him take it. Hence him practicing the Ketan when he couldn't open the box. The box has something about him hiding who he is, but I suspect only "Kvothe" can open it. He has gone to far from that and is more Kote than Kvothe. Kvothe also wanted to open that box because he didn't like the feeling of being beaten up by soldiers.

Wil and Sim and their indivdual beliefs in the fae link to where they are from. I believe Sim is from Artur and is quite religious, so the Fae are basically Faery tales. Wil is from Vintas and when you have Felurian running around humping random dudes to death, I think you might take the Fae more seriously.

Kvothe's darkness and his killing of the fake Ruh. I think Rothfuss wants us to be sympathetic for Kvothe's reasons for acting, I feel like it is a lure. If Kvothe is being set-up to be a Amyr or Amyr-like. He does things that are for the greater good, he acts when others cannot. The ability to do that without fear of immeadiate consequence can be a very dark place to be. (Deciding to run down people even after you have beaten them is pretty cold blooded. Gutting a guy, branding him, and then leaving him water to live in the wilderness is a pretty vicious thing to do.) I think Rothfuss is giving us glimpses of this viciousness, where in the third book he will do something that is pretty horrible and something tht would be difficult for anyone to forgive. This is one of the reasons he no longer desires to be Kvothe.

I do not think the Scrael are in the Lockless Box, not unless Kvothe takes it over the mountain range to open it. From what was said in the first book, he was surprised to see one because he didn't think they could make it over the mountains. On the map the only mountains are the ones in the far east. Now these things could have attacked Ademere because it is between two mountain ranges. (There could also be a mountain range that exists, but is just not on Rothfuss's map. I doubt this.) Of course there could be something in the box that calls the Scrael and while it is closed this shields it, but I also doubt that again.

[Defster]

I've been lurking these forums for years, but you just had to call me out, eh Maurice?

I've been following this thread since it started, and I agree with many of these theories. The Lackless heir that ran off must be Kvothe's mother. Besides the Tally clue and Kvothe feeling like he recognizes her, a noble running off with the Ruh does not seem like it would be very common. Lorren most likely knows this, since he recognizes the name Arliden, but he probably thinks Kvothe already knows. I can't wait to see Meluan's reaction to that news.

It is also possible that Arliden approached Lorren for info on the Lanre story. Arliden likely would have tried to get info from the archives since he searched all over the world for clues about the story.

The only theory that bothers me is Ash being Bredon.

I still think Ash is most likely one of the Chandrian. Ash sent Denna to the Mauthen wedding, questioned her to make sure everyone was there, and then he leaves her and disappears while the Chandrian kill everyone off. I suspect Ash is Haliax, due to Denna's comment about him never showing his face and the song he helped her write, but it could be Cinder as well. It is possible that Bredon is working for the Chandrian (his pagan rituals), but the Chandrian don't seem like the type to use a mortal agent. Bredon seems to recognize the shaed though, so he must have some experience with Fae.

If he is one of the Chandrian in disguise I would expect Kvothe to pick up on something while spending so much time with him. There is no blue flame, and the furniture is not rotting or the iron rings rusting away, though I suppose he could be one of the ones with less obvious signs.

I also doubt the Lockless box contains the scrael, though I think they could have been something from the Creation War that was shut beyond doors of stone. I think the box may contain the "One a thing tight-held in keeping" that is required to open the Lockless door.

Parts of the Ademre section seemed unnecessary, but I am glad Rothfuss took the time to have Kvothe train properly. This way is much better than him becoming an expert fighter in just a chapter or two.

I especially enjoyed hearing the story of Iax both from someone who was alive at the time and a version that has been passed down for thousands of years.

I am extremely curious about Elodin's knowledge of Fae and Auri's knowledge of the Amyr. Those two are definitely my favorite characters.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Def,

If Denna is working for the Chandrian isn't she acting as a Mortal agent?

[Mudguard]

Overall, I enjoyed the book and found it to be an easy read. I liked the Ademre and Fae section. Thought that it was a clever way of explaining the waxing and waning of the moon and how the Fae world was connected to the regular world. But I was disappointed that we didn't learn much more about the Chandrian and Amyr. We also don't really learn anything new about Mr. Ash. And the drama between Denna/Kvothe is still annoying and feels contrived. I'm sure that Denna and Mr. Ashe will eventually have a large and important role to play, but so far there's been very little progression.

Some nice theories in this thread, especially the theory on how Kvothe's mom is Meluan Lackless' sister.

[TeaSpoon]

Have we met an Amyr?

In Skarpi's story he says that the Amyr were given wings. Then in the Fae, when Kvothe and Felurian are running in the dark, and Kvothe creates a light using sympathy, Felurian tackles him to the ground. And a large winged something flies overhead. I need to reread that bit.

The Amyr weren't given wings. Aleph was putting together a group to serve justice. He offered Selitos a place among the Angels, but Selitos refused because Angels need to set aside personal grudges and can only meet out justice to crimes witnessed from that moment on. Selitos was still angry about Myr Tariniel and wasn't content waiting for injustice to happen. He wanted to be more proactive.

He created the Amyr for that purpose, to prevent injustice rather than deal with the aftermath.

The people who accepted Aleph's offer became the Angels, lead by Tehlu.

[Defster]

So far, the Chandrian's actions seem to be working towards eliminating all knowledge of them. I don't believe they are beyond a bit of manipulation, so long as the person does not know who they are. I am sure the mercenaries in the forest did not know their leader was one of the Chandrian. Master Ash seemed far too aware of what was going on at the Mauthen wedding.

If Bredon was working for them, even if he was a very trusted servant, do you think he would risk their anger by bringing someone else out to the Mauthen farm and making sure she survives? Would the Chandrian have given him permission to bring a singer out there to witness it?

I don't know why Ash sent her to the Mauthen wedding anyway. She claims it was another test, but it makes no sense considering how the Chandrian are trying to remove knowledge of their existence. Ash should know she would be able to connect the blue fire to the Chandrian. That shows an awful lot of trust, but when Kvothe meets Denna in Severen her patron still has not given her his real name.

I suppose it is possible that Ash is a mortal agent of the Chandrian and grooming her to be another, but I think it is more likely that he is one of the Chandrian himself.