Wise Man's Fear Spoilers Thread (SPOILERS)

[Foreverlad]

What does Kote mean again? I remember from NotW that it's a word from some other language, but I don't remember.

Oh, how many rings are accounted for? When we first saw the rhyme, I thought it was going to represent the names he'd learn, and Fela's stone ring seemed to bear that up. But then we saw the story that he has an amber ring which can control demons, the wood from Meluan, the bone from the Maer's valet. Air is a name he has or will have. Iron may be one of the rings his name's on (I don't think he got rid of those three rings, did he?). I doubt we've seen the nameless ring yet, but stone? Blood (related to the Amyr, maybe)? Flawed ice? Fire? Any hints about them I missed?

Never thought a thing about the rings, which I'm now regretting. I was more focused on the massive diamond he would supposedly give his love, which, if I understood things correctly, was the ring he returned to Denna without much fanfare. Can you remember where the rhyme was? I'd be interested in seeing it again.

[Slick Mongoose]

Near the start:

On his first hand he wore rings of stone,

Iron, Amber, Wood and Bone

There were rings unseen on his second hand

One was blood in a flowing band

One of air all whisper thin

And the ring of ice had a flaw within

Full faintly shone the ring of flame,

And the final ring was without name.

[polishgenius]

-Kvothe getting his ass kicked was, to some degree, an act on his part to further cement the character he's created for himself. From the epilogue: There, behind the tightly shuttered windows, he lifted his hands like a dancer, shifted his weight, and slowly took one single perfect step.

Not really sure about that last point. Though the exercise indicates he's still talented, all the other evidence points to failure. He wouldn't have broken down laughing near the end of the fight, wouldn't be waiting to die, and wouldn't be failing in opening that thrice locked chest.

I think the singleness of the step is significant. I reckon it indicates that the potential is in there and that he wants it back, but his mojo is out for the moment. I also think if it was an act he wouldn't be trying to open the thrice-locked chest.

What do we suppose has happened to Denna, by the way, in the present? And does it have anything to do with Kvothe's depression? We know Bast saw her, and something in the way he says that fact (in book one) made me think it was from a distance, maybe a public appearance. If Ambrose is the King, maybe she's willingly or otherwise married him?

[Slick Mongoose]

Anyone think that if Chronicler fails to restore Kvothe to his previous self, Bast will kill him? That scene where Bast kills those two soldiers was awesome.

[Foreverlad]

What do we suppose has happened to Denna, by the way, in the present? And does it have anything to do with Kvothe's depression? We know Bast saw her, and something in the way he says that fact (in book one) made me think it was from a distance, maybe a public appearance. If Ambrose is the King, maybe she's willingly or otherwise married him?

That is the question. There was a great betrayal which we might assume included Denna. Early in tNotW, Kote argues with Bast, curses him, then in another language one of the words included is denna. The other things didn't bother Bast, but he seemed especially taken aback by that last one.

Slick Mongoose, thanks for that poem, I remember it now.

[Foreverlad]

Regarding the denna curse Kote used: Page 15 of tNotW TPB:

Begone demon! Kote said, switching to a thickly accented Temic through half a mouthful of stew: "Tehus antausa eha!"

Bast burst into startled laughter and made an obscene gesture with one hand. Kote swallowed and changed languages. "Aroi te denna-leyan!" (bold mine)

"Oh come now," Bast reproached, his smile falling away. "That's just insulting."

[fionwe1987]

About the two soldiers: So, Bast hired them to come into the inn in the hope that it would make Kvothe fight, then killed them because he didn't and they beat him up? Weird.

Also, does Kvothe actually have a ring of Air or was he just kidding with Elodin?

Plus, did anyone notice the small bit of evidence that Elodin was still at the University? Chronicler talks about him, and the conversation implies that Elodin continues as Master Namer.

Master Herma: Anyone find his sudden illness and subsequent rise of Hemme suspicious? Did someone want to prevent Kvothe from becoming an expert in Yllish? Denna seemed awfully pissed that Kvothe knew some Yllish. Maybe some secret stories of the Chandrian are to be found in Yllish stories, and Master Ash worked to prevent Kvothe from getting to them after he heard from Denna that Kvothe was learning the language?

[Lord of Starfall]

AverageGuy, on 04 March 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

What does Kote mean again? I remember from NotW that it's a word from some other language, but I don't remember.

Oh, how many rings are accounted for? When we first saw the rhyme, I thought it was going to represent the names he'd learn, and Fela's stone ring seemed to bear that up. But then we saw the story that he has an amber ring which can control demons, the wood from Meluan, the bone from the Maer's valet. Air is a name he has or will have. Iron may be one of the rings his name's on (I don't think he got rid of those three rings, did he?). I doubt we've seen the nameless ring yet, but stone? Blood (related to the Amyr, maybe)? Flawed ice? Fire? Any hints about them I missed?

The ones on the left hand are certainly for the names he knows, but according to Elodin right hand rings mean something else.

Master Herma: Anyone find his sudden illness and subsequent rise of Hemme suspicious? Did someone want to prevent Kvothe from becoming an expert in Yllish? Denna seemed awfully pissed that Kvothe knew some Yllish. Maybe some secret stories of the Chandrian are to be found in Yllish stories, and Master Ash worked to prevent Kvothe from getting to them after he heard from Denna that Kvothe was learning the language?

I really doubt there was anything more to that scene. I think Denna was just slightly embarrassed that Kvothe could read her hair.

On a couple of the other theories (Lackless being Kvothe's aunt and Bredon being Master Ash) I'm a little conflicted. Kvothe is the one telling the story, so if were later confirmed, he would already know about it. It seems like he would have presented Meluan and Bredon differently if he had major revelations about them to drop on us later.

[AverageGuy]

Also, does Kvothe actually have a ring of Air or was he just kidding with Elodin?

Pretty sure he was just kidding. But who knows, he may have made an air ring after he saved Denna.

Denna seemed awfully pissed that Kvothe knew some Yllish.

When Denna is asking Kvothe, Simmon, and Wil about magic, she specifically asks if there's a type of magic that makes things people read come true even though they can't understand what they're reading. The entire time, she's drawing symbols on the tabletop, and later she's got a Yllish knot, which no one should be able to read, saying her hair is lovely. I don't doubt she was embarrassed, but I think it just means that she's trying to use magic. What seems to be a distorted version of Naming and the sleeping mind, so it probably doesn't actually work, but trying nonetheless.

The ones on the left hand are certainly for the names he knows, but according to Elodin right hand rings mean something else.

Eh, the rhyme doesn't say which rings are on which hand. Considering we've heard of the non-existent amber ring already, I am willing to bet that they're symbolic, representing the stories surrounding Kvothe. I'm just wondering which stories they're related to. And I won't be surprised if the right hand also is related to Naming, just a different level. I'm pretty sure that Elodin tells his Naming class something like, "None of you are ready for that yet," after he mentions the right hand meaning something else.

[polishgenius]

I just took that as a joke about marriage...

Plus, did anyone notice the small bit of evidence that Elodin was still at the University? Chronicler talks about him, and the conversation implies that Elodin continues as Master Namer.

Don't see why not. He's not old, after all, and I don't get the impression that there's a great deal of time between Kvothe leaving university and now- five-seven years maybe?

[Slick Mongoose]

What did Denna do? Did she do some stupid sympathy, like Kvothe did at the start of NotW?

And yeah, that was a joke about marriage from Elodin.

[Slick Mongoose]

With regards to the stone door on the Lackless estate, there's a bit from Skarpi's story in NotW about it:

"After the battle was finished and the enemy set beyond doors of stone...."

Edit:

Does anyone else think that Skarpi's story is Selitos's version of events, and Denna's song is Lanre's version? Skarpi's is probably closer to truth, after all we know that Haliax is a bastard.

There was some more interesting stuff from Skarpi's story that I hadn't noticed before, in the Amyr being angels created by Aleph. And Tehlu is the greatest of the Amyr. And there is a story about Kvothe fighting an angel, Chronicler mentions it.

Oh, and Kvothe can still do sympathy, at least at the start of NotW he breaks a beer bottle without touching it. Why it worked then but not later, I don't know, presumably difficulty?

Ohh, do we think Ambrose is bumping them off? He certainly knows enough to do so without being noticed.

Further to this, in NotW, Simmon is talking about how Ambrose is 16th in line to the throne of Vintas. The people in his way includes Maer Alveron.

So could Ambrose have been behind the poisoning of Alveron?

Another edit:

What does Kote mean again? I remember from NotW that it's a word from some other language, but I don't remember.

Kote is from one of Kilvin's saying:

Kilvin: "Chaen Vaen edan Kote"

Kvothe: "Seven years.... I don't know Kote."

Kilvin: "Expect disaster every seven years"

It's either expect or disaster. Probably disaster. Or both? "Expect disaster" has a nice ring to it.

[Rorshach]

Does anyone else think that Skarpi's story is Selitos's version of events, and Denna's song is Lanre's version? Skarpi's is probably closer to truth, after all we know that Haliax is a bastard.

It could be his side of the story. Or it could be a PR-effort. After all, when a story's that old, it's not really about what happened, but whose story you'd believe. So it could just be an attempt to get an alternate version on the streets, to build reputation.

Truth with a capital T generally doesn't appear in songs and legends.

[Slick Mongoose]

Oh, i'm sure it is a PR effort, I guess my real question is whether Haliax believes it to be true or whether it's a deliberate lie. Presumably he knows what happened, although his sanity is in serious question.

And Skarpi seems to think he knows the truth, and admits that his story isn't 100% true.

[jurble]

8/10

Started out good, but I was bored by the last third or so of the book. Nothing really seemed to happen. Nice book, but not worth the years it took to write (I mean, considering the fact it was already written when Name of the Wind was published, he's been working on the book as long or longer than GRRM has been on ADwD), imo. Hopefully ADwD will show its years-in-progress better.

Don't see why not. He's not old, after all, and I don't get the impression that there's a great deal of time between Kvothe leaving university and now- five-seven years maybe?

IIRC, Kvothe isn't even 30 yet. It's been ~10 years, so yeah, no reason Elodin to retire, dude was/is young still.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Since Names and the truths behind them are so important in the KKC perhaps Haliax is attempting, via story, to change the outcome? Perhaps if the story of Lanre is told with Lanre as a hero he will become a hero? Sort of like the way some, who buy strongly into the Bohr/Heisenburg version of Quantum Mechanics, believe observation actually locks into place the reality we experience and that, therefore, earlier events could be malleable if they weren't observed?

The way Naming is described seems to fit this pattern as well as Elodin's horror at someone changing their "Name".

[Lothlorian]

First post by me here, so.. howdy.

I loved the book, but I loved TNotW also. It does at times seem to be slow moving, and I can understand why some would say that they ended up bored. Kvothe's quote from the first book that "If I seem to wander, if I seem to stray, remember that true stories seldom take the straightest way." (TKotW US Hardcover 52). If non-stop action is what the reader is looking for they can go read some Dan Brown or James Patterson crap. The way the story wandered and lingered really gave it a much more authentic feel to me. Some of the best parts took place during "down" times, and I personally really enjoyed Kvothe's time with the Adem.

That being said, there were a few parts that confused me. When introducing himself to his story, Kvothe says that "The Adem call me Maedre. Which, depending on how it's spoken, can mean "The Flame, "The Thunder", or "The Broken Tree."" (TKotW US Hardcover 53) But in TWMF, when Kvothe asks Vashet about his new name, Maedre, Vashet responds that Kvothe should "Speak of it to no one" as it is his secret name, and then refuses to comment on her being surprised when he received the name. (TWMF Us Hardcover 841-842) The two parts seems to somewhat contradict themselves, and was wondering if others had thought about it at all. Vashet seems to think that "Maedre" is important (and seems to imply it is not a "good" name), as she makes the comment when finding Kvothe his new sword that "It will perhaps offset his name". (TWMF 820)

Also, there is the issue with Kvothe's sword. Is "Folly" the same sword as "Saicere/Caesura"? All we are really told about Caesura is that it was the same grey as other swords which were extremely old, and that it has a slightly extended guard. "Folly" is the sword mounted in Kvothe's wall, and when Chronicler points out that it doesn't match the description Kvothe gave of "Caesura", Kvothe admits that "This isn't ... what did the boy call it this morning?" His eyes went distant for a moment, then he smiled again. "Kaysera. The poet killer." (TWMF US Hardcover 890) So what happened to it? It's stated that the sword is very important to the Adem, and I can't see Kvothe losing it or trading it for another.

My only disappointment was that I was hoping for more interludes into the "present" time. It also seemed that the actual time it would have taken for Kvothe to relate this much of his story would have taken a bit longer than a single day.

It seems to me that it is going to be pretty difficult for Rothfuss to wrap the story up in a single book. One of the things that I liked about the story is the foreshadowing that isn't really foreshadowing. What everyone has read so many times in connection to the series, that "I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings. I burned down the town of Trebon. I have spent the night with Felurian and left with both my sanity and my life. I was expelled from the University at a younger age than most people are allowed in." (TKotW US Hardcover 53) Other than getting kicked out of the University, the only other thing he needs to do is steal the princess from the barrow king.

Why would Kvothe not simply tell us that his mother was the Lady Lackless? I think that it is pretty obvious that she is, particularly because of the quote mentioned earlier about Kvothe's mother asking Kvothe to help both her and Lady Lackless. What reason would there be for him not to tell us? Because he wants to surprise Chronicler with the news that he may be distantly related to him? Doesn't make much sense to me. Why would Kvothe feel the need to keep some pieces of information rather than simply tell us? I know that it would make for a less interesting read if there were no surprises, which likely influenced Rothfuss' writing, but I don't know. <shrug>

It also simply didn't make sense that Kvothe couldn't defeat the two soldiers. I really don't buy into that Kvothe has lost his powers. He killed five scrael by himself in the first book. Bast claims that Kvothe should be dead twice over, but he seemed to manage them fine enough. Did Kvothe realize that Bast had sent them and wanted to teach him a lesson? No clue.

The only other part that confused me was Bast's public reaction to Kvothe's encounter with the Cthaeh. If Bast is so intent on bringing Kvothe out of his funk, which he makes clear to Chronicler at the end of TNotW, why does Bast tell Kvothe that "Anyone influenced by the Cthaeh is like a plague ship sailing for a harbor", and further tells Kvothe that all of choices since meeting the Cthaeh have been more than wrong, but catastrophic. (TWMF US Hardcover 687-688) That, to me, seemed out of place with the whole "Bast is trying to bring Kvothe back to his former self" that I got at the end of the first book.

All in all, whatever happened to Kvothe happened less than two years ago, and he has been in his current bar for a little over a year. My guess is that whatever betrayal (assumidly by Denna) happened has begun to degrade Kvothe's power, but that it didn't leave him entirely. I'm looking forward to the next book. "I saw the place in Imre where you killed him. By the fountain. The cobblestones are all shathered." He frowned and concentrated on the word. "Shattered. They say no one can mend them." I'll wait another four years (hopefully not longer) to read that.

[Slick Mongoose]

That being said, there were a few parts that confused me. When introducing himself to his story, Kvothe says that "The Adem call me Maedre. Which, depending on how it's spoken, can mean "The Flame, "The Thunder", or "The Broken Tree."" (TKotW US Hardcover 53) But in TWMF, when Kvothe asks Vashet about his new name, Maedre, Vashet responds that Kvothe should "Speak of it to no one" as it is his secret name, and then refuses to comment on her being surprised when he received the name. (TWMF Us Hardcover 841-842) The two parts seems to somewhat contradict themselves, and was wondering if others had thought about it at all. Vashet seems to think that "Maedre" is important (and seems to imply it is not a "good" name), as she makes the comment when finding Kvothe his new sword that "It will perhaps offset his name". (TWMF 820)

He did say that "The broken tree" was at least partly prophetic. I think that's the more important of the meanings, and is something bad. But presumably Kvothe doesn't know why.

Also, there is the issue with Kvothe's sword. Is "Folly" the same sword as "Saicere/Caesura"? All we are really told about Caesura is that it was the same grey as other swords which were extremely old, and that it has a slightly extended guard. "Folly" is the sword mounted in Kvothe's wall, and when Chronicler points out that it doesn't match the description Kvothe gave of "Caesura", Kvothe admits that "This isn't ... what did the boy call it this morning?" His eyes went distant for a moment, then he smiled again. "Kaysera. The poet killer." (TWMF US Hardcover 890) So what happened to it? It's stated that the sword is very important to the Adem, and I can't see Kvothe losing it or trading it for another.

Maybe he renamed the sword, and it changed?

Other than getting kicked out of the University, the only other thing he needs to do is steal the princess from the barrow king.

He's been expelled. In the first book he was expelled for knocking Ambrose over with the wind. Then it was rescinded. That might not be what he's talking about, but it fits with the theme of stories not necessarily being all they're cracked up to be.

Why would Kvothe not simply tell us that his mother was the Lady Lackless? I think that it is pretty obvious that she is, particularly because of the quote mentioned earlier about Kvothe's mother asking Kvothe to help both her and Lady Lackless. What reason would there be for him not to tell us? Because he wants to surprise Chronicler with the news that he may be distantly related to him? Doesn't make much sense to me. Why would Kvothe feel the need to keep some pieces of information rather than simply tell us? I know that it would make for a less interesting read if there were no surprises, which likely influenced Rothfuss' writing, but I don't know. <shrug>

We have to keep in mind that Kvothe is a storyteller. He'll keep back information for dramatic effect, much as Rothfuss will. Presumably, if she is his mother he'll tell us when he realises.

And it wouldn't be much of a story if all mysteries were answered immediately.

It also simply didn't make sense that Kvothe couldn't defeat the two soldiers. I really don't buy into that Kvothe has lost his powers. He killed five scrael by himself in the first book. Bast claims that Kvothe should be dead twice over, but he seemed to manage them fine enough. Did Kvothe realize that Bast had sent them and wanted to teach him a lesson? No clue.

I've been thinking about this too. Killing five scrael is made out to be something impressive. No clue.

The only other part that confused me was Bast's public reaction to Kvothe's encounter with the Cthaeh. If Bast is so intent on bringing Kvothe out of his funk, which he makes clear to Chronicler at the end of TNotW, why does Bast tell Kvothe that "Anyone influenced by the Cthaeh is like a plague ship sailing for a harbor", and further tells Kvothe that all of choices since meeting the Cthaeh have been more than wrong, but catastrophic. (TWMF US Hardcover 687-688) That, to me, seemed out of place with the whole "Bast is trying to bring Kvothe back to his former self" that I got at the end of the first book.

Shock, I imagine. The Cthaeh is really really bad. If Bast had thought first he would probably have come to the same conclusion as you.

[Lothlorian]

He did say that "The broken tree" was at least partly prophetic. I think that's the more important of the meanings, and is something bad. But presumably Kvothe doesn't know why.

Even though the incident where Kvothe splits the huge tree with the lighting while fighting the bandits happens before he receives the name Maedre from the Adem, I thought that pretty much explained "the broken tree" thing. Though if it was a disaster I could see it having something to do with the Sword Tree.

Aside from that, it still doesn't explain Vashet's insistence that Kvothe keep "Maedre" a secret, lest others have power over him, yet he feels free to share it with all of us.

Maybe he renamed the sword, and it changed?

Hadn't thought of that. That would be interesting.

He's been expelled. In the first book he was expelled for knocking Ambrose over with the wind. Then it was rescinded. That might not be what he's talking about, but it fits with the theme of stories not necessarily being all they're cracked up to be.

I don't know, for some reason I think of "expelled" as permanant. At the end of TNotW, Kvothe talks about Ambrose, saying "He did manage to get his revenge, and when it came, I was caught flatfooted and forced to leave the University." US Hardcover 653. Ambrose didn't know that he was attacking Kvothe after the attempted robbery, and the events that "forced" Kvothe to leave the University were a result of his calling the wind in the first book, so weren't really Ambrose getting revenge. He also wasn't really forced to leave, just highly encouraged to take a break. And since the book ends with his just paying for a new semester and warnings that the story will soon get darker, I'd imagine that him getting truly expelled from the University comes with the next book?

Shock, I imagine. The Cthaeh is really really bad. If Bast had thought first he would probably have come to the same conclusion as you.

That was my initial thought also. But shock would have (to me) been more of a reason for Bast to stay quiet. Why Bast would think Kvothe was lying about the meeting is beyond me. If anything I would have thought Bast would have had some huge dark inner revelation that he had been running with the wrong person for awhile now. The shock and disbelief is another way to go at it, which also makes sense. Bast really hasn't been known to say the right things. ;)

[aariafromarty]

I got a Garden of Eden vibe from the Fae with Felurian playing Eve as a seductress and the Chaern being the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

I was also a bit surprised at Bast's reaction considering the the short amount of time Kvothe spent with the tree. The few lines it did get out didnt seem life altering. Kvothe was already on a path that had him chasing the Chandrian. The Chaern just told him where to go. Unless there is some corrupting influence that lingers with anyone who speak to it, ala the One Ring, I am more inclined to believe the Chaern is more of a boogeyman story for the Fae than actual ultimate harbinger of death.

The Fae, Adem, and fake Ruh parts were all a bit of fluff as the real part of the story was in Vint and the University. I really enjoyed seeing how these events changed Kvothe, so maybe they were necessary for character development. They just dragged a bit. It also was a bit stark contrast to how quickly things ended with the Maer and the lack of details with the University. I did not even catch that the "third time pays for all" naming of the wind was with Deena. Was expecting something more significant. Seeing Kvothe go from mercenary leader, Fae concubine, warrior monk to something a CW teen romance drama was disappointing. Thought he would move on to Devi who is so much more interesting than Deena. Even the petty act of sending that fake letter to Ambrose struck me a regression back to adolescent games which is really what the relationship with Deena is.