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Subterranean to release signed limiteds of Game and Clash!


bsaenz24

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Subterranean Press will be releasing signed limiteds of Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings that will match their editions of Storm, Feast and soon(??) Dance.

Subterranean Announcement

As an owner of both the Meisha Merlin books and the Subterranean ones, yes, it will be nice to have a uniform set, but I don't like the idea of the 2 stray Meisha Merlin books!!!! Of course, I do like the art in those much more than either of the artists used so far by Subterraean.

Oh well, there it is then.

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I've been thrilled about this since I heard of the possibility. Finally some matching editions.

This will not, in any way, reduce the value of the Meisha Merlin books, btw. In fact, all of this stuff will probably go through the roof very soon.

John Picacio!

Alex Ross!

Donato Giancola!

Greg Manchess!

Rick Berry!

(In case anyone wants to listen to my dumb ass.)

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Interesting. So for those that have matching sets of 1-4, does that mean there will be 2 copies of book 1 and 2 with the same number/letter? A lot of the original non-matching sets are probably lost for good.

Not that I really mind. Just curious. :)

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matching books numbers/letters have been problematic since the MM edition of AGoT. Some people bought ONLY the first book because they were collectors of Jeff Jones artwork, and they had no intention of purchasing the other books once it was decided to use different artists for each volume. I imagine that there were collectors who did the same for ACoK because they collected Howe. The record-keeping at MM wasn't very good to begin with, and I doubt if Bill got a full and complete list of the 'current' subscribers when he took over the project from MM.

But there are now some lettered/numbered MM editions of AGoT and ACoK that were given to us or to others that will be available because Bill gives us presentation copies instead of numbered/lettered copies for most of 'our' copies.

Sorting this out will take some time and patience, and compromise between the collectors and the publisher.

Stego, I'm with you on many of those artists you mention, would beg Donato on my knees, and the same for Gary Gianni if we could get them to even consider the projects.

With Fishman already working on some of the art for DANCE, I fear having Donato do volume 6 or 7 would require us to build more walls.

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Dang it..that was unexpected news for sure. I see the Subpress's taking the MM spot in value(half as many!!) with ASOS/AFFC. The have it item will be ASOS/AFFC so you can have your complete set. I withdrew mine as the fustration of finding my the limited finally mounted, so its good news for sure. Plus sub press is going to make them worthy for sure and I can't wait to see who they get to illustrate.

I wonder if any letters will be available..:)

Actually I have a ton of questions too! Like will it be based off the Subpress limited you already have, and if no-one claims the MM limited could you get rights to that series also, so you can have fun with trying to put together two series.. Aww man im gonna go broke.

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Hey all,

Thanks for the kind words on our projected volumes one and two. I'm sure other questions will arise, but...

1. All new artists. We won't be reusing art from the Meisha Merlin editions.

2. At this point, our focus is on ADwD, for which Marc Fishman has already completed a lot of the art. We should be announcing that volume soon. Unless we're persuaded otherwise, those who have ADwD will have first crack at our editions of the first two volumes.

I'm sure other questions will arise, and we'll need to sort out things as we go, but we'll try to come up with something that's a reasonable solution for all involved.

Best,

Bill

SubPress

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I've been a fan of Subterranean for years now. This is fantastic news, especially for someone who tried for years in vain to complete a set.

I had one matching set with COK / ASOS / AFfC, and two others with just ASoS / AFfC.

I think this announcement made my month.

I'm interested, though, what does this do to the value of the MM Limiteds? Up...down...holding steady? Should be interesting to watch.

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Unless we're persuaded otherwise, those who have ADwD will have first crack at our editions of the first two volumes.

Best,

Bill

SubPress

Let me state for the record that I will wish bodily harm on anyone who tries to convince you to break up my set. Not that I feel passionately about this or anything.

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Ok. Didn't realise we were going to have brand new editions of aGoT and aCoK (rather than re-prints). Choices choices. :)

It does get complicated. If you have a complete letter or number set already and you decide not to get the new letter/number aGoT/aCoK, some other person is going to end up with a letter/number for aGoT and aCoK but not the subsequent editions. Since presumably the person with the original letter/number will keep the rights for that letter/number for Book 6 and 7.

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We should be announcing that volume soon. Unless we're persuaded otherwise, those who have ADwD will have first crack at our editions of the first two volumes.

I, for one, would be unleashing the fires of hell if SubTerranean did otherwise. We need to be able to maintain matching sets.

To be honest, though, I'd rather have a new slipcase for Storm than anything else. The volumes still won't match as long as Storm is left with a blank slipcase. I'm sure this is wishful thinking on my part, however.

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Having thought about it further, I think Padraig raises some good points. This is going to be a really difficult thing to do without problems. Who has rights to Book 6 (if it ever appears)? One assumes it is, indeed, the person who bought Book 5. In which case it better be very clear to whoever buys books 1 and 2 that they are unlikely to be able to get a matching set, ever.

Additionally, what constitutes an unbroken set in the future in terms of collectibility? I'd be hard pressed to argue that it wouldn't still be owning the MM volumes 1&2 and the SubTer volumes of the rest. Are we going to end up with people who own only the SubTer volumes of all the novels claiming they have an unbroken set? How about people who own MM vols 1 and 2 but NOT the SubTer volumes 1 and 2? They would (rightfully in my opinion) be able to claim they have an unbroken set of the novels... but that seems completely unintuitive if they don't own the matching number/letter of the SubTer editions of books 1 and 2. Even though I think it is the "correct" reading of the situation.

It just sounds like a fustercluck waiting to happen. How much simpler would it be to offer a better slipcase for Vol 3? Much simpler! And it would cost Subterranean Press lots of money and make them nothing! How can that be bad? Unless you're all about not going out of business and such.

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I don't know, but I would think a true unbroken set would include the Subterranean and Meisha Merlin Editions.

What kind of time table are we looking at for release? While I'd love to have them all in my hands right now, having three of these books in lettered format release all within a short time period might stress the pocketbook just a touch.

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having three of these books in lettered format release all within a short time period might stress the pocketbook just a touch.

I feel the same way, I'm trying to collect Limited ASOIAF sets and Lettered Malazan apparently. It's going to be good times! At least I know to starting saving now, I decided I will cut going to the bar so dang much so probably a good thing...

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Well, that's me out.

It's quite difficult to see how the situation for this series of limited edition books could possibly have been screwed up more. Actually I remember thinking the same thing before this latest announcement, so I'm sure there are other ways to mess it up even further just waiting to be discovered. Perhaps Sub Press will go bust and book six will be released by a new company who decide to publish it in limited edition papyrus scroll form, then they and George can release all the earlier books on papyrus to match. Then you can all buy them again and a full, full, full limited* set will require three AGoTs, three ACoKs, two ASoSs etc. What fun!

While this latest announcement is great news for those of you who only have books three and four it's really bad news for those who had the foresight to build a complete set (or who spent significant amounts to acquire one). They can expect the value of their first two books to plummet, as the full "Sub Press set" will undoubtedly become the desirable one, relegating the Meisha Merlin books to historical oddities.

Well, I'll be damned if I'm going to waste any more money on this farce. I'll keep my lettereds because I at least respect the artists involved and am happy to have the remarques, but I'll sell the other copies I've got and won't be ordering any more.

Congratulations to all involved in this ridiculous saga. You've managed to turn what is ostensibly a fairly simple idea (creating a uniform set of books) into a cascade of failures, each one more epic than the last.

* Ha. In the words of Inigo Montoya "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

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While this latest announcement is great news for those of you who only have books three and four it's really bad news for those who had the foresight to build a complete set (or who spent significant amounts to acquire one). They can expect the value of their first two books to plummet, as the full "Sub Press set" will undoubtedly become the desirable one, relegating the Meisha Merlin books to historical oddities.

I could not disagree more.

The Meisha Merlin books were the farce. This is absolutely wonderful news for those of us who have been in from the beginning. This is exactly what we have always wanted -- a matching set of high quality books. Sub Press isn't going anywhere. (Although they need to get cracking with other Takeshi Kovacs novels.) They will probably even get the name of the book correct on the Clash of Kings title page.

What I am very surprised by in your post is the fact that you have spent all that money on a lettered edition of these books and aren't really aware of how book collecting works. As far as value to a collector, the 'true first' of the limiteds will always be the most desirable, despite the inferior artwork that has nothing to do with A Song of Ice and Fire. (Sorry Mr Jones, but you mailed it on that one.) And if what you say is true and they became 'historical oddities', well, that would only augment their value on the collector's market. That's pretty much how it works.

I'm sorry that you are upset, though. It's really too bad. If you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the incompetent though well-meaning guys at Meisha Merlin. They fucked Heinlein fans over even worse than Martin fans.

And I can also understand being mad at George. He made a poor choice a decade ago in giving Meisha Merlin a chance. He has made a few mistakes with smaller companies. He saw true fans and he gave them a shot. He's sometimes too nice. I can understand a bit of anger over having to 'repurchase' books. I truly can.

But please keep in mind that he is doing this to make up for that mistake to his fans. He isn't trying to soak us for more money. He isn't trying to bleed his fans dry. He has a television show and stands to make a metric fuck-ton of cash when ADWD is published in a few months. Let's be honest here, his share of the limited edition cash is not something he would miss if it were not there.

He made the decision to do this to give his fans the best quality books he possibly could manage, and that meant going through Sub Press. I know that he asked his fans and collectors because he called me up and asked me my opinion on it.

George will genuinely be upset to hear that some folks are upset, because he genuinely just wants to give his fans what they should have received in the first place.

But I think he's aware that you can't ever please everyone.

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Stego, I don't think that's a fair summary of the situation. This isn't an altruistic move "for the fans". If Subterranean Press didn't think this would be profitable for them, they wouldn't do it. This is not a criticism; you have to make money to stay in business. But lets not kid ourselves that this is a favor to us.

Also, I do think the issue of the first two books being double published in limiteds is not as simple as you make it out to be. It's absolutely true that the true first is always the most desirable. But NONE of these books are the true firsts. The true first of "A Game of Thrones" is a little complicated because the British hardcover has an earlier listed publication date but the American one went to the presses earlier and copies were circulating before the British one was published. But in any case, it certainly isn't the limiteds. How collectible are two orphaned limited editions after newer matching ones are published? I'm not sure. I don't think you can be sure either. I CAN be sure that the best bet at this point is to have all the matching volumes from both companies so that's likely what I'll do.

But as somebody who has an unbroken LETTERED (not numbered) set, I'm not the happiest guy in the world about being gouged for another $700 or whatever it will be. Changing the rules of the game after it has started is not very endearing.

Lastly, I think you're giving the two MM volumes a bad rap. Yes, they had problems. But so have the Subterranean press editions. The Storm of Swords from Subterranean press is clearly the most problematic of them all. The slipcase for that volume is unacceptable. On the other hand, the construction of the MM volumes was in some ways superior. The slipcases were lovely. All edge gilt! Sewn-in bookmarks. And so on. The art is, as you say, generally of superior quality in the SubPress volumes. And the screwup of the editing process missing the mistake on the Clash of Kings page listing which number or letter volume you have (I can't remember the term for this page) was as unacceptable as the slipcase for Storm.

Aside from the (serious) error with that page, I think A Clash of Kings is probably the nicest of the books so far. AFfC is also very nice. But you can't write off the MM editions as though the Subterranean press ones have been perfect.

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