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Wise Man's Fear II (SPOILERS)


WrathOfTinyKittens

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Finished reading this book last weekend, and I liked it, for the most part.

But I hated the pages upon pages upon pages of Felurian wank-fest, so much so that I almost missed some important stuff in there as I impatiently flipped pages. I mean, come on. How is it even possible to write a section like that and still have it be deadly, deadly boring?

I will even go so far as to say that given the choice of reading about Kvothe and Felurian or yet another session of Ayla and Jondalar, I'd be going with the latter, apologies.

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The shapers did not create Felurian. She was alive when the shapers were in their infancy, probably before that, even.

Maybe the people of the Empire of Ergen were immortal. Maybe the Fae does something to halt or slow down aging. Maybe the shapers changed their names, creating different species of Fae, like Skin Dancers and Dennerlings and Rendlings and scaven and Trow and barrow draugar and Trolls and Ogres and Shamblemen and (from Caesura's history) Daruna and Gremmen. Nothing has been confirmed yet.

No ever-burning lamp was found. It is said that such a thing once existed, but, if it did, none survived. And no one knows how such a thing could be made. Shaping is a good guess, but nothing has been confirmed.

E'lire means seer

Re'lar means speaker

El'the means ??

What comes after speaking? Shaping?

That doesn't really make sense, though. The shapers went to the Fae and the namers fell into decay. Not to mention the fact that there's a Master Namer but no Master Shaper. Maybe El'the means "namer" and speaking is just an intermediate step between seeing and naming.

Another possibility is "singer". The Chandrians are afraid of the Amyr, the singers, and the Sithe. Maybe the singers refer to fully educated, powerful namers who can even see and speak the true names of people. Even the chandrians would fear such people, especially if they came in numbers.

Aurum is latin for gold, also meaning shining dawn, which makes sense because gold is shiny and yellow, like the sun. Aurora is the Roman goddess of dawn. It would have made more sense if Auri was named Aurelia, which is the "feminine form of the Roman gens name Aurelius, from aureus 'golden.'"

Thrall means slave. Stercus is the slave of iron. Whatever the hell that means.

Interesting thing I just figured out while researching this post. I thought all the chandrians were weak against iron, like the Fae. It's what I have been thinking since the first book, when Haliax tortured Cinder with the word "Ferula." I thought it was the name of iron, since the latin name of Iron is Ferrum. However, the Ademre know the Chandrians by different, more accurate names. One among them is Ferule, "chill and dark of eye." That describes Cinder.

So, Haliax wasn't using the name of iron. He was using Cinder's true name, which means that it's possible the Chandrians aren't weak against iron. Which also raises the possibility that Stercus is weak against iron, like the Fae, which sets him apart from the other chandrians. Then again, the signs of the chandrians aren't weaknesses. Maybe Stercus attracts iron the way a magnet (or lodenstone) does.

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The shapers did not create Felurian. She was alive when the shapers were in their infancy, probably before that, even.

Maybe the people of the Empire of Ergen were immortal. Maybe the Fae does something to halt or slow down aging. Maybe the shapers changed their names, creating different species of Fae, like Skin Dancers and Dennerlings and Rendlings and scaven and Trow and barrow draugar and Trolls and Ogres and Shamblemen and (from Caesura's history) Daruna and Gremmen. Nothing has been confirmed yet.

No ever-burning lamp was found. It is said that such a thing once existed, but, if it did, none survived. And no one knows how such a thing could be made. Shaping is a good guess, but nothing has been confirmed.

E'lire means seer

Re'lar means speaker

El'the means ??

What comes after speaking? Shaping?

That doesn't really make sense, though. The shapers went to the Fae and the namers fell into decay. Not to mention the fact that there's a Master Namer but no Master Shaper. Maybe El'the means "namer" and speaking is just an intermediate step between seeing and naming.

Another possibility is "singer". The Chandrians are afraid of the Amyr, the singers, and the Sithe. Maybe the singers refer to fully educated, powerful namers who can even see and speak the true names of people. Even the chandrians would fear such people, especially if they came in numbers.

Aurum is latin for gold, also meaning shining dawn, which makes sense because gold is shiny and yellow, like the sun. Aurora is the Roman goddess of dawn. It would have made more sense if Auri was named Aurelia, which is the "feminine form of the Roman gens name Aurelius, from aureus 'golden.'"

Thrall means slave. Stercus is the slave of iron. Whatever the hell that means.

Interesting thing I just figured out while researching this post. I thought all the chandrians were weak against iron, like the Fae. It's what I have been thinking since the first book, when Haliax tortured Cinder with the word "Ferula." I thought it was the name of iron, since the latin name of Iron is Ferrum. However, the Ademre know the Chandrians by different, more accurate names. One among them is Ferule, "chill and dark of eye." That describes Cinder.

So, Haliax wasn't using the name of iron. He was using Cinder's true name, which means that it's possible the Chandrians aren't weak against iron. Which also raises the possibility that Stercus is weak against iron, like the Fae, which sets him apart from the other chandrians. Then again, the signs of the chandrians aren't weaknesses. Maybe Stercus attracts iron the way a magnet (or lodenstone) does.

Felurian comes from Murella (it is implied) which is one of the seven cities of Ergen. She was human once, I think. So she can't have been created by the Shapers. Besides for all their works, it is never stated that the shapers had the power to shape living organisms. Even the fruit seems to have been imprinted with memories, rather than made from scratch.

I wondered over thrall too- whether it means weakness or fondness for iron. I incline towards the latter, although it would probably be most accurate to think of it as an unresistable attraction which can be manipulated. Stercus is in thrall of iron, iron isn't in thrall of Stercus, so I doubt he would act as a loden stone. Besides, we didn't see any wagon wheels flying towards him.

If Cinder's name is Ferule, why did Haliax say Ferula? Did changing the name that slightly hurt him? Or is this a continuity error?

Your guesses are as good or better than mine about El'the.

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Another possibility is "singer". The Chandrians are afraid of the Amyr, the singers, and the Sithe. Maybe the singers refer to fully educated, powerful namers who can even see and speak the true names of people. Even the chandrians would fear such people, especially if they came in numbers.

I think the singers are a part of the Tahl tribes, their leaders are supposed to be singers that can heal the sick and make trees dance with their songs, according to Kvothe.

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Is there really a different between magnets attracting iron and iron attracting magnets? In either case, there's an attraction between iron and magnets.

[EDIT] The attraction doesn't have to be strong. We don't see wagon wheels fly towards fridge magnets either (or fridge magnets flying across the street to cars). Maybe Stercus can be identified by the fact that nails stick to him.

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  1. Averageguy's answer holds. It's Vintish currency.
  2. Where's 2?
  3. Given that the rest of the owners have recorded deaths, perhaps Chael simply laid down arms. Or never died.
    Finol, 30-some owners later, fell in the Battle of Drossen Tor.
    Related Question: Chaen means seven in Tema. Is there any relation to Chael beyond a swapped letter?
  4. Name of elderberry? Glass?
    He also throws a bottle of elderberry at the mercenary.
    And the soldiers who beat Kote take a bottle of elderberry.
    They seem to have a lot of it and Bast has some trouble finding it. Why?
  5. I'm hesitant to ascribe more meaning to that. I'm constantly reminded that Kvothe's weaving a tale. In particular, a tale transcribed by someone who will be meeting up with Skarpi. Furthermore, the series is called The Kingkiller Chronicle, implying that it's not the story of Kvothe the Arcane and possibly that it's about the acquisition of the tale.
    There is a narrator doing the third person, where Kvothe isn't in every scene, and not even part of it in some. Presumably there's the chronicle itself, as transcribed by Devon via Kvothe. Occasionally the chronicle lapses into second person, speaking directly to the reader, setting a scene or directing the gaze. And there are dozens of stories-within-the-story.
    (just read unJon's post - Yes)
    wild speculation: Skarpi is the ultimate narrator.
  6. confirmed: He's a bard
    speculative: Arliden approached him about the song.
    wild: He's a traveling scriv.
  7. confirmed: Vints are superstitious and he'd lost a lot of money and men.
    wild: He needed a lure to send Kvothe on a fool's errand.
  8. That would fit the pattern of stories. In fact, the Cthaeh more or less avoids facts entirely.
  9. All we know for sure is that it sows discord.
  10. Bast says, in the same breath he reveals there were supposed to be Sithe there, "You don't understand them if you use the term 'good intentions.'" Honestly they seem more and more like a Faen counterpart to the Amyr.
    speculation: Both groups have an odd notion of good.
    wild: The Cthaeh was able to keep them busy via some machination.
  11. She's creating a masterwork that'll be sung for a hundred years. She's scoured the world for pieces of the story; so she has some claim to the accuracy of her version - likely more than Kvothe can claim especially at that point. And he is kind of an obsessed knob.
  12. Fascinating. Note that she's most afraid of the Amyr.
  13. confirmed: (In Skarpi's story) None but the most powerful can see them, and only then with great difficulty and at great peril.
    speculative: The Amyr are not typical ruach. Selitos makes this clear (again, in Skarpi's story.) They are harriers of the Chandrian.
    wild: They killed the troupe.
  14. Tehlu gets a lot of press. Again, given the mission statement of the Amyr he probably doesn't care. Perhaps the Menda story has some truth to it, though. He may have done a side project there to encourage folk to behave.
  15. confirmed: Something to do with "Rhintae."
    speculative: Kvothe (suggested by Kvothe)
    wild: The last thing he says is probably, "Are you /(sought by)/ the Sithe? Are you Chandrian?"
  16. I don't know. I don't think he's Manet, but I'm stubborn like that.
    There are things he doesn't know. Most surprising, that Kvothe is banned from the archives.
  17. The shapers created her. Them.
  18. Wait. What? This is now my second favorite nagging question.
  19. Yes.
    Food for thought: There's enough Fae in the scenes with Felurian to strongly suggest that ciar means light or fire. The people of the Ceald are Cealdish; their language is Ciaru.
  20. Short answer yes with an if. Long answer no with a but.
    All kidding aside it kind of depends on what you mean by races. At the end of the war there are seven magnificent cities remaining, and that's some time after the Blac. Thousands of ears ago the Lackless Holdings included all of Vintas, parts of Modeg, the eld, and most of the Small Kingdoms. The family splintered but shares a common ancestry.
  21. The Tahlenwold, the great sand sea, the Lanett, Arueh, and the Fae?
  22. That's not something you ask in polite company.
    There might be clues in his lectures.
  23. Did he really break down?
  24. Unknown Probably Belen's
  25. Good question and great nomenclature. We're only given story fragments, so this is all speculative. Taborlin's an enemy of Scyphus after then Chandrian are cursed, so he's definitely present post Creation War.
  26. The twenty thousand corpses thing was probably getting out. Kvothe assumes that "Ivare enim euge."/"For greater good" confirms he was associated with the Amyr. It's interesting given the focus on scrollwork/braiding in WMF that the words were located in some.
  27. Duke Lochees? His will and research? He clearly mad ea name for himself with The mating habits of the Common Draccus.
  28. speculative: Chronicler sought/is seeking the story of Kvothe. He visited after Kvothe "died" to tease it out.
    wild: Kvothe is lying about a lot of things.
  29. No. Idea.
  30. This is probably like offering a no-prize. How many times do they eat together in the books?
  31. Star. Plenty of evidence but I'ma just lob one since that's how we roll here.
  32. Not enough data.
  33. Not enough data.
  34. Good question.
  35. confirmed: That it's real and he'd like to visit.
    speculative: The Ceald has a closer relationship with the Fae than the other kingdoms do - see ciar above.

And right on, TeaSpoon.

I'm impressed that you took the time to answer all this. I can't resist asking a couple of follow ups/making a couple of points...

Who or what is a Ruach? Any guesses?

Tehlu isn't Amyr. He's an angel. He accepts Aleph's diktat to bring justice to the world.

You are absolutely right that Elodin doesn't know Kvothe is banned from the archives. I didn't consider that. Maybe my theory about Elodin's mysterious knowledge about Kvothe doesn't hold up as well as I thought.

Auri and Kvothe talk while dining at least twice/maybe three times in NOTW. That's a pretty big boob-up. Pat should hire us as beta-readers...

About Elxa Dal's other name- maybe he knows his wife's deep name or something? That might explain his mysterious silence...

Just out of curiosity what is the first nagging question you have?

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Is there really a different between magnets attracting iron and iron attracting magnets? In either case, there's an attraction between iron and magnets.

[EDIT] The attraction doesn't have to be strong. We don't see wagon wheels fly towards fridge magnets either (or fridge magnets flying across the street to cars). Maybe Stercus can be identified by the fact that nails stick to him.

The difference is that attraction is a symmetric relationship while being in the thrall of is not.

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Is there really a different between magnets attracting iron and iron attracting magnets? In either case, there's an attraction between iron and magnets.

[EDIT] The attraction doesn't have to be strong. We don't see wagon wheels fly towards fridge magnets either (or fridge magnets flying across the street to cars). Maybe Stercus can be identified by the fact that nails stick to him.

I see your point. I could have phrased it better. It's just that, as you pointed out, thrall does have connotations of one being subservient to the other.

Practically speaking, iron rusting is the physical symptom we are shown to connect with the abstract sign so that is most likely the answer. Stercus makes iron rust.

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I see your point. I could have phrased it better. It's just that, as you pointed out, thrall does have connotations of one being subservient to the other.

Practically speaking, iron rusting is the physical symptom we are shown to connect with the abstract sign so that is most likely the answer. Stercus makes iron rust.

How does iron rusting show the dominance of iron over Stercus?

Also, "Usnea lives in nothing but decay" seems to cover the rusting iron.

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How does iron rusting show the dominance of iron over Stercus?

Also, "Usnea lives in nothing but decay" seems to cover the rusting iron.

Agreed, especially since we know other materials decay in the presence of the Chandrian. It would be a total cop out for stone and wood decaying to count as a separate sign from iron rusting.

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Help me out with something I might be missing.

There were 8 cities - 7 cities plus the one city Tarinel/Myr Tarinel

There were 8 Chandrian - The seven Chandrian plus Haliax/Alaxel/Lanre

Lanre betrayed Tarinel and six cities other cities were betrayed by six of the Chandrian but one city was not betrayed by one of the Chandrian. So, who is the 8th? It's likely it was the Ciridae that Nina painted. She said the angels had given her the dream to paint what she saw on the old heirloom. He was described thusly

I finished unrolling the paper, revealing a third figure, larger than the other two. He wore armor and an open-faced helmet. On his chest was a bright insignia that looked like an autumn leaf, red on the outside brightening to orange near the middle, with a straight black stem.

The skin of his face was tan, but the hand he held poised upright was a bright red. His other hand was hidden by a large, round object that Nina had somehow managed to color a metallic bronze. I guessed it was his shield.

“He’s the worst,” Nina said, her voice subdued.

I looked down at her. Her face looked somber, and I guessed she’d taken my silence the wrong way. “You shouldn’t say that,” I said. “You’ve done a wonderful job.”

Nina gave a faint smile. “That’s not what I meant,” she said. “He was hard to do. I got the copper pretty okay here.” She touched his shield. “But this red,” her finger brushed his upraised hand, “is supposed to be blood. He’s got blood all over his hand.” She tapped his chest. “And this was brighter, like something burning.”

I recognized him then. It wasn’t a leaf on his chest. It was a tower wrapped in flame. His bloody, outstretched hand wasn’t demonstrating something. It was making a gesture of rebuke toward Haliax and the rest. He was holding up his hand to stop them. This man was one of the Amyr. One of the Ciridae.

The young girl shivered and pulled her cloak around herself. “I don’t like looking at him even now,” she said. “They were all awful to look at. But he was the worst. I can’t get faces right, but his was terrible grim. He looked so angry. He looked like he was ready to burn down the whole world.”

So do we know who this is? Have we already met him?

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