Wise Man's Fear II (SPOILERS)

[Poobah]

I meet Victorian time travellers all the time. Their grammar tends to be pretty atrocious.

[The faceless others]

On another unrelated note, we don't actually see Kvothe's parents' bodies in TNOTW. So we only assume they are dead.

His parents are dead, he even mentioned how his father's body looked like. I think his father was disemboweled and was crawling towards his mother for about 20 feet. And he didn't really described his mother's corpse but he mentioned that she's dead.

Anyway, in the two books, who would be your fav character?

Mine would be Devi, especially when he floored Kvothe when they dueled.

[SkiesOfAzel]

Anyway, in the two books, who would be your fav character?

Well, you had it comming but i have to say it anyway :

Manet!

Aside from being in a whole different league compared to every other character, he also manages to be most of them too, how cool is that?. Since he is too obvious a choice though, i would also pick Elodin for the comic relief, and Denna, probably because she is the only character that seems to have a little depth.

[jaerken]

OK, this thread was awesome in the beginning, especially with the discovery of Not Tally a Lot Less, but somehow it's taken a turn for the worse vis a vis the theological implications of fables in a fictional universe. ARGUING ABOUT ANGELS VS AMYR... CMON DAWG BE FOR REAL.

PLEASE turn it AROUND, we all know that SNAPE, son of Tobias, KILLS MANET, son of Chael, in book 3 anyway.

To those who insist on pointless speculation: your next assignment is to have sex. If you do not know how to do this, see me after class.

[The faceless others]

Well, you had it comming but i have to say it anyway :

Manet!

Aside from being in a whole different league compared to every other character, he also manages to be most of them too, how cool is that?. Since he is too obvious a choice though, i would also pick Elodin for the comic relief, and Denna, probably because she is the only character that seems to have a little depth.

Don't you know that Manet is actually the one who's telling the story, he's just acting like Kvothe. The real Kvothe is dead, and Chronicler is talking to an impostor who is none other than Manet, the master shaper/ namer dude, Spy for the Amyr and the 7, and transcendent in the arts of the Adem. :D

[thistlepong]

Mostly agreed.

I'll maintain that we don't know with 100% certainty what Aleph is offering Selitos. That part is deliberately left out.

The remaining Ruach ended up Ademre. The first 3 paragraphs of Shehyn's story make that pretty clear.

My favorite character is Elodin, for offering to have sex with Uresh

[Kosciuszko]

In your time machine?

I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself.

Hey, if you don't have a flux capacitor, I don't know what to tell you.

[Nine of Spades]

Really good stuff in this thread. Just wanted to add my two cents on Bast killing the two soldiers at the end of Wise Man's Fear.

The arrangement with them appears to be a robbery, where Bast gives them the info, sets some terms, and they all meet later to split the loot. The implication is that these are theives/thugs, who served Bast's intended purpose of trying to get Kvothe to act as Kvothe, not Kote. But his dealing with the men later is probably much less a case of turning on his employees, but cleaning up a pair of thugs that he hoped his master would eliminate. That is not to say that Bast is strictly "good", but he is not wantonly cruel and has some sense of fairness.

As a side note, the comment Kvothe made about almost forgetting who he was to me indicated that he realized that he was acting like Kvothe, not Kote, and threw the rest of the fight to fit into his role as Kote the innkeeper. My impression with regards to his current state is that whatever he is suffering is spiritual in nature, not the source of some curse or other affliction. He seems to strongly believe he has hopelessly, royally, and irredeemably screwed up.

As to the Sithe and their killing of anyone who speaks to the Cthaeh, it makes a certain amount of sense if its applied ruthlessly. Basically as long as you kill them regardless of what happens, before they can effect anything else, the range of outcomes the Cthaeh can effect is very small. That however doesn't mean that killing them is always the right thing to do. While the Cthaeh will steer the course to the worst possible outcome it could effect with a few lines of conversation, the range of outcomes that could result if that person lives, even if the Cthaeh said the worst possible thing to it, could still be better then the outcome if that person is removed. It could also explain why the Sithe and Felurian could have chosen to not remove Kvothe. That is to say, the worst possible outcome that the Cthaeh could effect with his conversation, while horrific, is still better then any outcome in which Kvothe is killed at that moment.

[Gaston de Foix]

Mostly agreed.

I'll maintain that we don't know with 100% certainty what Aleph is offering Selitos. That part is deliberately left out.

The remaining Ruach ended up Ademre. The first 3 paragraphs of Shehyn's story make that pretty clear.

My favorite character is Elodin, for offering to have sex with Uresh

I meant to ask on this thread, what do people make of Denna's attempts to do magic? Believable? Obviously sham?

The theory that things written down have power gets some unintentional support from Kvothe's story about The Chronicler.

Btw, it's interesting to read PR's interviews on his website. I did that for the first time yesterday. He goes on about his books coming out once a year. If only... He also makes fun of Rowling for not developing her world enough and rigorously enough and creating crystal clear rules governing magic. Which is fair, but if you are going to be holier than thou, you need to avoid continuity errors like the plague in your own books.

Comparing Rothfuss and Sanderson (whose book, Way of Kings I read before WMF) is interesting because they both have such distinct strengths and weaknesses.

Rothfuss writes beautifully, with a gift for dialogue and mystery and a sense of ''magic casements, opening on the foam/Of perilous seas, in faery lands forlorn''.

Yes I know, people had different reactions to Felurian. Parts of it were forced and felt false (the dialogue about Thousand Hands..yikes). Other parts, like the rhyming sequence were flawless.

Sanderson's strength isn't just magic systems (I actually think sympathy and Naming are as good as anything Sanderson has come up with).

Sanderson's true strength is originality. His stories are original and completely planned from the beginning and just watertight. The plots are impossible to predict and the pace is reasonably quick. And of course he buries little nuggets throughout the books that discerning readers can pick up on and discuss on forums :0). Plus his theology is fascinating.

Rothfuss by constrast actually struggles on occaison with plot. It's not hard to find inconsistencies in NOTW and WMF. And having Kvothe's mum be a highborn noble isn't exactly an unpredictable twist. Parts of the plot are loose. Kvothe spends so much time learning the Lethani which is the true heart of Ademre but his only reflection on his time there is that he got a sword. The Lethani is hardly even mentioned after he returns to the university. It's as if Rothfuss has developed this amazing character and needs things for him to do for three books before the exciting climax. All that being said, I was more excited about WMF than I will be about a sequel to Way of Kings. And that's because, more flawed though his story his, Rothfuss writes in a way that makes Sanderson seem flat, almnost all intellect and no heart. I predict Sanderson will write more books over his career, and his books (probably the Stormlight Archive actually) will be read 50 years from now by those who are interested in fantasy and looking beyond the flavour of the day. But some kid is going to pull NOTW off a library shelf fifty years from now(assuming they still have libraries) and just not be able to stop reading.

[Gaston de Foix]

Mostly agreed.

I'll maintain that we don't know with 100% certainty what Aleph is offering Selitos. That part is deliberately left out.

The remaining Ruach ended up Ademre. The first 3 paragraphs of Shehyn's story make that pretty clear.

My favorite character is Elodin, for offering to have sex with Uresh

I meant to ask on this thread, what do people make of Denna's attempts to do magic? Believable? Obviously sham?

The theory that things written down have power gets some unintentional support from Kvothe's story about The Chronicler.

Btw, it's interesting to read PR's interviews on his website. I did that for the first time yesterday. He goes on about his books coming out once a year. If only... He also makes fun of Rowling for not developing her world enough and rigorously enough and creating crystal clear rules governing magic. Which is fair, but if you are going to be holier than thou, you need to avoid continuity errors like the plague in your own books.

Comparing Rothfuss and Sanderson (whose book, Way of Kings I read before WMF) is interesting because they both have such distinct strengths and weaknesses.

Rothfuss writes beautifully, with a gift for dialogue and mystery and a sense of ''magic casements, opening on the foam/Of perilous seas, in faery lands forlorn''.

Yes I know, people had different reactions to Felurian. Parts of it were forced and felt false (the dialogue about Thousand Hands..yikes). Other parts, like the rhyming sequence were flawless.

Sanderson's strength isn't just magic systems (I actually think sympathy and Naming are as good as anything Sanderson has come up with).

Sanderson's true strength is originality. His stories are original and completely planned from the beginning and just watertight. The plots are impossible to predict and the pace is reasonably quick. And of course he buries little nuggets throughout the books that discerning readers can pick up on and discuss on forums :0). Plus his theology is fascinating.

Rothfuss by constrast actually struggles on occaison with plot. It's not hard to find inconsistencies in NOTW and WMF. And having Kvothe's mum be a highborn noble isn't exactly an unpredictable twist. Parts of the plot are loose. Kvothe spends so much time learning the Lethani which is the true heart of Ademre but his only reflection on his time there is that he got a sword. The Lethani is hardly even mentioned after he returns to the university. It's as if Rothfuss has developed this amazing character and needs things for him to do for three books before the exciting climax. All that being said, I was more excited about WMF than I will be about a sequel to Way of Kings. And that's because, more flawed though his story his, Rothfuss writes in a way that makes Sanderson seem flat, almnost all intellect and no heart. I predict Sanderson will write more books over his career, and his books (probably the Stormlight Archive actually) will be read 50 years from now by those who are interested in fantasy and looking beyond the flavour of the day. But some kid is going to pull NOTW off a library shelf fifty years from now(assuming they still have libraries) and just not be able to stop reading.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

tfo,

His parents are dead, he even mentioned how his father's body looked like. I think his father was disemboweled and was crawling towards his mother for about 20 feet. And he didn't really described his mother's corpse but he mentioned that she's dead.

Anyway, in the two books, who would be your fav character?

Mine would be Devi, especially when he floored Kvothe when they dueled.

Devi's a she, most definiately a she.

[Slick Mongoose]

Really good stuff in this thread. Just wanted to add my two cents on Bast killing the two soldiers at the end of Wise Man's Fear.

The arrangement with them appears to be a robbery, where Bast gives them the info, sets some terms, and they all meet later to split the loot. The implication is that these are theives/thugs, who served Bast's intended purpose of trying to get Kvothe to act as Kvothe, not Kote. But his dealing with the men later is probably much less a case of turning on his employees, but cleaning up a pair of thugs that he hoped his master would eliminate. That is not to say that Bast is strictly "good", but he is not wantonly cruel and has some sense of fairness.

I think it's fairly explicit, myself. Bast kills them because he didn't get what he wanted.

[Kosciuszko]

tfo,

Devi's a she, most definiately a she.

Or so you think. What you don't know is that the faceless other is a beta reader and I used my time machine to get a copy of the next book :smoking:

[Gaston de Foix]

There is a major howler in WMF in relation to Vintas and rings. Anyone care to hazard a guess what it is?

[Kosciuszko]

Talking about how Kvothe knows the significance of the ring given to him by the Lady Lackless because Bredon told him what rings of bone and horn meant earlier in the book, yet has somehow forgotten it later on?

Or I somehow remember this and being confused as to why he didn't realize what it was and why Bredon didn't just tell him again. I might have misremembered the materials involved though.

ETA: To clarify the ring is supposed to represent a never-ending grudge, vow to kill, etc. That sort of thing. I may be misremembering no one seeming to know what it means later on, though. Opening my Nook to check the explanation now.

"And a ring of horn?"

"A ring of horn shows enmity," Bredon said. "Powerful and lasting enmity."

Though somehow I think the ring given was one of wood. And upon further checking that's at least what he and Bredon both think. So I guess that I misremembered. Though I still think its worth considering they somehow misidentified horn.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Kos,

No, that's a ring of Horn, not wood.

[Gaston de Foix]

Talking about how Kvothe knows the significance of the ring given to him by the Lady Lackless because Bredon told him what rings of bone and horn meant earlier in the book, yet has somehow forgotten it later on?

Or I somehow remember this and being confused as to why he didn't realize what it was and why Bredon didn't just tell him again. I might have misremembered the materials involved though.

ETA: To clarify the ring is supposed to represent a never-ending grudge, vow to kill, etc. That sort of thing. I may be misremembering no one seeming to know what it means later on, though. Opening my Nook to check the explanation now.

Though somehow I think the ring given was one of wood. And upon further checking that's at least what he and Bredon both think. So I guess that I misremembered. Though I still think its worth considering they somehow misidentified horn.

good try Kos but no.

I'll give you another clue. It's what the alchemists were searching for; turning one metal into another..

[AverageGuy]

I meant to ask on this thread, what do people make of Denna's attempts to do magic? Believable? Obviously sham?

I believe that she believes. I don't think her version is real. OTOH, sygaldry is the written form of sympathy, so there may be a written form of naming. And Yllish is the oldest form of writing, so it's a contender. But many of the reactions she might want to provoke from Kvothe she'd probably unknowingly provoke anyway. I feel like Denna heard about a magic where you write things down, sygaldry, and in a quest for more information heard about the sleeping mind and sort of made things up.

Other parts, like the rhyming sequence were flawless.

I don't know if I'd say flawless. The meter threw me sometimes. Changing from tetrameter to pentameter within a couplet, or seeing the stress change suddenly. But I did enjoy it for the most part.

[Poobah]

Talking about how Kvothe knows the significance of the ring given to him by the Lady Lackless because Bredon told him what rings of bone and horn meant earlier in the book, yet has somehow forgotten it later on?

Or I somehow remember this and being confused as to why he didn't realize what it was and why Bredon didn't just tell him again. I might have misremembered the materials involved though.

ETA: To clarify the ring is supposed to represent a never-ending grudge, vow to kill, etc. That sort of thing. I may be misremembering no one seeming to know what it means later on, though. Opening my Nook to check the explanation now.

Though somehow I think the ring given was one of wood. And upon further checking that's at least what he and Bredon both think. So I guess that I misremembered. Though I still think its worth considering they somehow misidentified horn.

They were looking at the bone ring when they were talking about horn. Bredon correctly says that it isn't horn, it's bone.

The wood ring is for giving to someone so inferior to you that they don't even deserve an iron ring, and it comes later.

[Gaston de Foix]

They were looking at the bone ring when they were talking about horn. Bredon correctly says that it isn't horn, it's bone.

The wood ring is for giving to someone so inferior to you that they don't even deserve an iron ring, and it comes later.

Stapes gives Kvothe a silver ring and a bone ring at the beginning of WMF. Kvothe returns a gold ring and a bone ring at the end of WMF to him, but Stapes insists Kvothe keep the bone one. It's such an obvious error I spotted it on my first read, but I was like, no, he can't have gotten such a detail wrong. Surely not.

It makes much more sense for Stapes to give Kvothe a silver ring of course. They are both in the Maer's service. I'm sure Rothfuss originally went with the gold and then changed to silver. But then he failed to make the change later in the book.

Like I said, he needs better beta-readers for sure. I would nominate Teaspoon, provided he/she abandons the mad theory that the scrael are in the Lockless box :0)