Wise Man's Fear II (SPOILERS)

[jurble]

All of this aside, the first two thirds of the book was sublime, and all together it was a great novel. I enjoyed it immensely.

I really wish I understood what the deal with Kvothe being such a wuss these days is, though. That bothered me. Training like he had does not go away in a couple of years.

If you reread the scene where he fights the bandits in his Inn, when the larger bandit has his hand caught he tries to do Break Lion, but his hands simply don't work. After that we're told he has a confused look on his face and tries to do Break Lion again, but it still doesn't work. He remembers how to do all the tricks, but for some reason his hands just aren't functioning. That leads me back to his oath to Denna.

Oh, he also swears by his hand not to speak of the Lackless box to Meluan.

[Mfoobar]

Elodin somehow reminds me of Elohim, which is hebrew for god. So Manet = Elodin = God?! ;)

[sckma]

I thought Kvothe was already 'expelled'. I mean in terms of narrative of him being expelled from the university earlier than most people allowed in... well he's already fulfilled that part? got hit with malfeasance for calling the name of the wind, it's just been postponed... anyway thats how i understood it.

But on second thoughts... hmm

[Ski the Swift]

I thought Kvothe was already 'expelled'. I mean in terms of narrative of him being expelled from the university earlier than most people allowed in... well he's already fulfilled that part? got hit with malfeasance for calling the name of the wind, it's just been postponed... anyway thats how i understood it.

But on second thoughts... hmm

I was thinking that as well because aren't most people that are allowed to enroll around the age of seventeen, which is how old he is come the end of TWMF?

[lanceschaubert]

I have not read any of this thread yet because I still have not finished the book. I got about 300-350 pages left to go. I have been milking it cause I don't want to finish and then have years of waiting to go. I had no clue, when starting this series, that I would love it so much.

Yeah, I feel you. The post will be there when you finish.

[Slick Mongoose]

I thought Kvothe was already 'expelled'. I mean in terms of narrative of him being expelled from the university earlier than most people allowed in... well he's already fulfilled that part? got hit with malfeasance for calling the name of the wind, it's just been postponed... anyway thats how i understood it.

But on second thoughts... hmm

We shouldn't be too surprised if he isn't expelled or forced out in the next book, because both have been fulfilled, but there is still plenty of reason to think he might be kicked out again.

[unJon]

During Kvothe's admissions questioning (the first time), there is an exchange with Elxa Dar:

"What is the synodic period?"

I looked at him oddly. "Of the moon?" The question seemed a little out of sync with the other two.

He nodded.

"Seventy-two and a third days, sir. Give or take a bit."

He shrugged and gave a wry smile, as if he'd expected to catch me with the last question.

I'm not sure what to make of this. On the one hand, kudos to PR as a nice way to tell us early in the book that the Moon in this world is different than our moon. Our moon, of course, has a synodic period of 29 and one half days, give or take.

Also what does this mean for the calendar in Kvothe's world? Has anyone given this thought. I know that the "week" in Kvothe's world seems to be a span, which is ten days instead of seven. But I hadn't given much thought to whether a month in Kvothe's world is different. But if the phases of the moon last 72 days, is a Kvothe month about 2.5 of our months?

This may help explain why a term at university is 2 months, which I always thought was a bit short. Is it really 144 days as opposed to 60 days??

Very confused about all this. Anyone have thoughts? Is 72 1/3 a significant number for any reason? Is Elxa Dar giving a wry smile for some hidden reason? Aargh, seeing conspiracies everywhere.

[Gaston de Foix]

During Kvothe's admissions questioning (the first time), there is an exchange with Elxa Dar:

I'm not sure what to make of this. On the one hand, kudos to PR as a nice way to tell us early in the book that the Moon in this world is different than our moon. Our moon, of course, has a synodic period of 29 and one half days, give or take.

Also what does this mean for the calendar in Kvothe's world? Has anyone given this thought. I know that the "week" in Kvothe's world seems to be a span, which is ten days instead of seven. But I hadn't given much thought to whether a month in Kvothe's world is different. But if the phases of the moon last 72 days, is a Kvothe month about 2.5 of our months?

This may help explain why a term at university is 2 months, which I always thought was a bit short. Is it really 144 days as opposed to 60 days??

Very confused about all this. Anyone have thoughts? Is 72 1/3 a significant number for any reason? Is Elxa Dar giving a wry smile for some hidden reason? Aargh, seeing conspiracies everywhere.

unJon, I have only thought to share. when I read the passage it felt like Elxa Dal was trying to determine the precise boundaries of Kvothe's knowledge, seeking to know exactly what this child prodigy knew. hence a question which required some knowledge of the Fae, or the nature of the moon'smovements. He was clearly satisified that Kvothe did not know whatever he was fishing for. Either that or there is an hitherto unexplained connection between the moon and the practice of sympathy. but given the way sympathy works in the 4 corners I find it hard to fathom how the moons movement can affect sympathy without Kvothe realizing so far.

[Zizoz]

Presumably a year is the same length as in our world, and there still have to be the same number of terms in a year.

[Tears of Lys]

My feelings about WMF are about the same as Stego's. While greatly enjoying the book, I could have done with quite a bit less of the no-expression Samurai warrior-esses. I can see how PR felt that Kvothe's honed fighting skills had to be explained some way, but a pruning there wouldn't have hurt. I assumed this part and the Felurian interlude were Pat's way of bad-assing Kvothe up without his all of a sudden, ta-DA! appearing that way. It's enough that he's a consummate actor, liar, singer, musician, etc. I was glad that Devi, at least, had a much stronger Alar and Fenton seems to be kicking his ass in his recent classes.

But It defintely bothers me to have Kvothe get his ass handed to him in present day time. I console myself by thinking that when the third book comes out, the payoff will be that much sweeter.

And I will defintely need to immediately start a reread, as there was sooo much stuff happening in this book, that I'm sure I've forgotten half of it. I did manage to catch the probable link between Meluan and Kvothe, though,, as soon as she started bitching about the Ruh. :smug: (for once.)

[jurble]

I think several characters make it clear, that while Kvothe is incredibly intelligent, his arcane skills aren't that out of place. The difference is, people like Devi, Fenton and the Masters don't go on adventures.

And, obviously, Kvothe eventually surpasses them all (except Elodin I suppose) in Naming, and that's what matters. Fenton and Devi's Alar is useless when Kvothe can bind them by speaking to the air and stone.

[rdbrown]

Loving this thread, and have a few thoughts from re-reading NOTW this weekend that may or may not have already been covered.

First, theres a line in Skarpi's story of Lanre where he talks about after the battle of Drossen Tor, the enemies were 'set beyond the doors of stone.' Just another tid bit about the doors, which I think definitely include not only the Lackless door, but the Greystones/Waystones.

Also, there is a line where Sim starts to recount the line of heirship to the King: "Royal family, prince regents, Maer Alveron, Duchess Samista, Aculeus and Meluan Lackless..." So, despite the issue of his parents non-marriage, that would put Kvothe as the first born Lackless son ahead of Ambrose? Does that mean anything to the speculation of Ambrose being either the current King or the killed one?

Also interested in discussion about Master Lorren. I personally speculate he is an Amyr or associated with the Amyr. He is the one who curtails Kvothe's initial research at the Archives, couching it in a seemingly bs excuse about Kvothe looking like a child. I'm also curious about his Caeldish visitor who they say is someone who acquires books... might be true, might be false, might be half true. Maybe he is someone who goes looking for books/accounts of the Amyr to scrub them? At any rate Lorren is way more than he appears.

Looking forward to some more discussion on this thread!

[Slick Mongoose]

Also, there is a line where Sim starts to recount the line of heirship to the King: "Royal family, prince regents, Maer Alveron, Duchess Samista, Aculeus and Meluan Lackless..." So, despite the issue of his parents non-marriage, that would put Kvothe as the first born Lackless son ahead of Ambrose? Does that mean anything to the speculation of Ambrose being either the current King or the killed one?

I doubt bastards count, it's not explicit in the books but it's normal in medieval societies.

I'm also curious about his Caeldish visitor who they say is someone who acquires books... might be true, might be false, might be half true. Maybe he is someone who goes looking for books/accounts of the Amyr to scrub them?

That's a really interesting idea. Who better?

[Poobah]

The people of the four corners DO NOT use a lunar calendar. From Hemme's first lecture:

"Good. For tomorrow, you can prepare a report on Yll's lunar calendar compared to the more accurate civilised Aturan calendar that you should be familiar with by now."

[Slick Mongoose]

I wonder if we'll see Yll in the next book?

[ShanRawr]

As much as I want to believe Elodin = Manet, I figured I would share this thought:

Elodin got the spade question directly from Kvothe during the encounter in the stairwell before they burn all of Hemmes' robes (Chapter 8).

But Elodin = Manet is a lot more fun.

[unJon]

ShanRawr, I just read that section and did not see Kvothe tell ManetElodin. Are you just saying he could have and Kvothe left that bit of the conversation out of the story for some reason?

[unJon]

@Poobah. Nice find. Still wonder if months aren't roughly in line with the lunar phases, like our own world, even though we also use a solar calendar.

[ShanRawr]

No. I don't believe Kvothe told him. I believe Elodin got it when he looked at Kvothe and the light on the stairway appeared to grow dim, etc.

[seastarr]

Also interested in discussion about Master Lorren. I personally speculate he is an Amyr or associated with the Amyr. He is the one who curtails Kvothe's initial research at the Archives, couching it in a seemingly bs excuse about Kvothe looking like a child. I'm also curious about his Caeldish visitor who they say is someone who acquires books... might be true, might be false, might be half true. Maybe he is someone who goes looking for books/accounts of the Amyr to scrub them? At any rate Lorren is way more than he appears.

Looking forward to some more discussion on this thread!

I agree with you about Master Lorren. I think he is invested in some way in protecting/concealing information about the Amyr. He pushes Kvothe away from researching both the Chandrian and the Amyr initially, and he suspends Kvothe from the Archives for five days (on a different pretext) when he catches him with the Duke of Gibea's original text with the Amyr inscription. I bet Lorren collected that book right up into his private library! I also suspect Lorren to be somehow connected to the Lackless family. One idea that occured to me is that he knows Arliden's name not because he knows Arliden personally, but because he knows Netalia (Laurien) Lackless ran off with Arliden's troupe.

What I cannot decide about Lorren is if he likes or dislikes Kvothe...