422 replies to this topic

[unJon]

Crackpot theory alert:

Or Elodin is Manet. Explains 2 and 5.

[Slick Mongoose]

unJon, on 14 March 2011 - 07:10 AM, said:

Crackpot theory alert:

Or Elodin is Manet. Explains 2 and 5.

Christ, that is crackpot. Well done.

Edit: It would explain why Manet has been at the university so long. It wouldn't explain the difference in appearence. I don't think we've really had anything to suggest that people can change their appearence magically?

Edited by Slick Mongoose, 14 March 2011 - 07:58 AM.

[unJon]

Slick, we know Fae magic can change appearance, and we know Elodin is familiar with Fae magic. He recognizes Kvothe's cloak and says he wouldn't be much of a Namer if he didn't recognize Fae magic (paraphrasing). Boo ya. Cracpot theory is strong. :-P

[Slick Mongoose]

I'm convinced.  

Edit: Now I want to reread every passage with Elodin or Manet in.  

Edited by Slick Mongoose, 14 March 2011 - 08:17 AM.

[Grant]

I re-read the story of Lanre and Selitos that Skarpi told, and was struck by this part

Quote

"You have given me enough, old friend." Lanre turned and placed his hand on Selitos' shoulder. "Silanxi, I bind you. By the name of stone, be still as stone. Aeruh, I command the air. Lay leaden on your tongue. Selitos, I name you. May all your powers fail you but your sight."

So Lanre had deceived and bound Selitos, but when Selitos stabbed his own eye "the fetters of enchantment fell away"

And then Selitos returns the favor.

Quote

"By the power of my own blood I bind you. By your own name let you be accursed."

Selitos spoke the long name that lay in Lanre's heart, and at the sound of it the sun grew dark and wind tore stones from the mountainside.

Then Selitos spoke, "This is my doom upon you. May your face be always held in shadow, black as the toppled towers of my beloved Myr Tariniel.

"This is my doom upon you. Your own name will be turned against you, that you shall have no peace.

So, I had assumed that Kvothe's exile was self-imposed, or the oath about searching for the patron had crippled him.  But now I'm wondering if someone had named him and bound his powers.  Elodin, perhaps?

[Slick Mongoose]

Grant, on 14 March 2011 - 08:19 AM, said:

So, I had assumed that Kvothe's exile was self-imposed, or the oath about searching for the patron had crippled him.  But now I'm wondering if someone had named him and bound his powers.  Elodin, perhaps?

Interesting idea. Denna came into my head for some reason - If she's learning magic from Master Ash then it might be possible.

[Slick Mongoose]

unJon, on 14 March 2011 - 07:10 AM, said:

Or Elodin is Manet.

Q: Why is he spending so much time in the fishery?

A: To keep tabs on Kilvin. Make sure he doesn't start shaping to make his ever-burining lamp.

[Read Blood]

Slick Mongoose, on 14 March 2011 - 08:24 AM, said:

Interesting idea. Denna came into my head for some reason - If she's learning magic from Master Ash then it might be possible.

I apologise in advance for jumping in, as I have not really reviewed all posts of this already huge 3 part thread... Anywho.... Has it been brought up that Master Ash could possibly be the Maer's rogue arcanist. Denna refers to him as a historian several times and he helps Kvothe with the history of the Lockless's? Just a thought, hope it was not brought up before!

[AverageGuy]

I know we've covered Kvothe's hands in the present before, getting stuck by the holly thorn, the inability to keep a grip on the soldier, looking down at his hands when the panacea flower of the Cthaeh was mentioned, as a possible reason he no longer played music, but none of those mentioned which hand it was or if it were both.  Though we were guessing left hand due to Teaspoon's theory.  Finally found a solid reference at the end of my re-read.  Pg. 983:

Kvothe drew a deep breath and nodded to himself.  "Let's stop there," he said. ...He idly rubbed his hands together, right hand massaging the left absentmindedly...

That pretty much seals the theory in my mind.  Kvothe loses his power and his good left hand when he goes looking for Denna's patron.  And Denna probably plays a role which he sees as a great betrayal.

Out of curiosity, has anyone mentioned Baron Jackis's first name yet?

Slick Mongoose, on 14 March 2011 - 07:51 AM, said:

It wouldn't explain the difference in appearence. I don't think we've really had anything to suggest that people can change their appearence magically?

"Manet" is just wearing a false beard.  Those things fool everyone.

[Slick Mongoose]

Read Blood, on 14 March 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

I apologise in advance for jumping in, as I have not really reviewed all posts of this already huge 3 part thread... Anywho.... Has it been brought up that Master Ash could possibly be the Maer's rogue arcanist. Denna refers to him as a historian several times and he helps Kvothe with the history of the Lockless's? Just a thought, hope it was not brought up before!

I don't think so, he was killed by that Dagon guy.

Edit: We're fairly certain that Bredon = Master Ash.

Incidentally, does the Maer remind anyone else of Tywin Lannister? We get several hints as to his ruthlessness, and he keeps a dog at hand to do the dirty work.

Edited by Slick Mongoose, 14 March 2011 - 09:58 AM.

[Maysek22]

Knowing what we know of the Chandrian, namely that they are out and about in the world kiilling people, and doing more mundane things like leading bandits to steal money, it seems obvious to me that they must have eyes and ears at the university, as well as at every major court/kingdom.  
If we make the assumption that bredon/ash is chandrian/chandrian agent as well as being denna's patron, who then can we assume is the equivalent at the university?
They would definately want someone there with influence, and to keep an eye on potential threats (people who can learn to name come to mind).
So my crackpot theory is that Elodin, who is not actually insane, just acts erratic for show, is a chandrian/chandrian agent.
What do we know about Elodin exactly?
1. He came to the university when he was younger than kvothe.
2. He was prolific, youngest chancellor in history, fighting about "advanced bindings" while still an e'lir.
3. He went nuts and was placed in the crockery (the home for failed namers).
4. as mentioned above seems to have his finger on the pulse that is kvothe.
5. Teaches people to name, thus is aware of every namer/potential threat in the world.

SOO lets imagine a young prodigy comes to the university, learns naming and things forbidden at an unparalleled rate, becomes the most powerfull person at the university, then for reasons unknown goes "crazy", loses his chancellorship, and is imprisoned at the crockery, where he makes a miraculous/improbable recovery and becomes a master again.
Perhaps somewhere between the "went crazy, and regained sanity" he was switched out by the chandrian and is indeed one of them or an agent...

[Maysek22]

The above theory could also of course apply to the Amyr, who in all likelyhood have agents running around all over the place too...

[Slick Mongoose]

It does make absolute sense for both groups to have agents in the university. Anyone who'se able to threaten the Chandrian would in all likelyhood come from there.

[Lothlorian]

http://www.nytimes.c...ction/list.html

Wise Man's Fear is #1 on the NY Times Bestseller List.  Congrats sir.

[unJon]

Good for him!!!

[Gaston de Foix]

AverageGuy, on 14 March 2011 - 06:42 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure Elodin can grasp at least a piece of Kvothe's name.  When he looks at Kvothe on the stair outside Hemme's room right before that, I got the impression he was looking into Kvothe the way Kvothe looked into Felurian.  However, this particular case doesn't seem like one where Naming comes into play.  I'd guess Elodin was either at the Eolian or he talked to Manet.

Why would Manet divulge such a piece of information to Elodin? Most likely Elodin was at the Eolian, I agree. But if I might, those who have proposed rational explanations that justify all five references ignore the fact that these are subtly but obviously pointed out in the story, presumably for some reason.

I have one more discovery/perspective to share with y'all. NOTW, page 633

"The mercenary's eyes sharpened again, focusing on Kvothe.  The wide, humorless
smile reappeared, made macabre by the blood running down his
face. "Te aithiyn Seathaloi?" he demanded. "Te Rhintae?"

I find it very curious that the mercenary is using a word that seems to be similar to the Ademic word "Rhinta" which means "old things in the shape of men" or Chandrian. Why would the mercenary be questioning Kvothe about the Chandrian?

It is awesome that WMF came top of the NYTimes best seller list. Brandon Sanderson was talking about a healthy rivalry with Rothfuss. Game on, I think. Rothfuss can't be beaten only equalled.

Edited by grinachu, 14 March 2011 - 11:30 AM.

[unJon]

Wait, how do we know what Rhinta means? I thought from context of other occurences of similar words (discussed in last thread)  it was looking like it meant something about "knowledge".

[Zizoz]

That was "rhin", I think. One of the Adem uses "rhinta" to refer to Cinder as the leader of the bandits, IIRC.

Edit: Checked; the discussion was near the bottom of page 14 of the previous thread. I think "power" is the most likely meaning for the root personally.

Edited by Zizoz, 14 March 2011 - 12:49 PM.

[unJon]

Right. I get that rhinta is the name that Adem give to the Chandrian. I don't get that rhinta means "old things in the shape of men." Given PR's seeming care in the entymology of his language, I wouldn't be surprised if it means "those who obscure knowledge." Or something like that.

[Gaston de Foix]

unJon, on 14 March 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

Wait, how do we know what Rhinta means? I thought from context of other occurences of similar words (discussed in last thread)  it was looking like it meant something about "knowledge".

The words inscribeed above the library- that word is Rhinata. Rhinta is explained by the Adem as an old creature/Chandrian/creature in shape of a man. I suppose Rhintae could have yet another meaning, but stretches credulity a bit doesn't it?