401 replies to this topic

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Continue.

[thistlepong]

My partner's first reaction to Kilvin's presentation of Regim Ignaul Neratum was, "That sounds like the Chandrian."  You could probably fake all the signs of Chandrian presence with bone-tar, firedamp, and naphtha.

[Garlan the Gallant]

A shiny gold coin goes to the person who decodes Denna's letter. Also, were the copper plates on the stone doors ever described? Like their shapes or what might fit inside? One of the key's might be in the lackless box. Just a thought.

[Jerec]

Someone mentioned they didn't like the fact that Kvothe ended his story on a high notice, where he has plenty of money, has fun with his friends, has patched things up with Denna, etc. I think this makes the few years wait more bearable than if it was a cliffhanger or something evil like that. Even Chronicler and Bast might have complained about a cliffhanger ending and they only need to wait until the next morning.

[Curethan]

Interesting setup to the third volume, cuz we suspect everything is going to shit from the outset in book 3.  And things don't seem too rosy in present day Kvotheland so I suspect Vol3 will also end with Kvothe in dire straights.  I think the story is to be continued in a second trilogy, is this correct?  If so, vol3 could well be the grimmest book in the series.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Curethan,

What makes you think that things will ever look up for Kvothe?  We already know how Kvothe's story ends.  We've been looking at the end point of his story for two books.  The Waystone Inn.

[unJon]

I think Beetrix makes a good point in the last thread. I can't see Sim "deserving" being killed. Though, who knows, maybe the third book gets really really dark.

@Curethan, book three is supposed to take us up to the present day framing story. If there is a second trilogy it is not about the backstory.

[Stego]

Ser Scot A Ellison, on 23 March 2011 - 05:14 AM, said:

What makes you think that things will ever look up for Kvothe?  We already know how Kvothe's story ends.  We've been looking at the end point of his story for two books.  The Waystone Inn.

Are you high? That's not the endpoint, but the beginning. There are demons and Chandrian to kill, a throne to claim, and Denna to finally fuck.

[Gaston de Foix]

I have three more observations from a long wait for a flight.

1. The two books are strange in how interchangeably Kote, Kvothe and the innkeeper are used in third person narrative. I haven't been able to work out the logic of it. I'm not talking about what people are calling him throughout the novels btw. I am talking about how the author refers to him. The strangest thing is midway through WMF, the author suddenly switches to calling him Kvothe and then abruptly reverts back to Kote. I am sure there is some logic there but I can't make head or tail of it.

2. "She gave him an uneasy smile. "They're too wild today, sir. We think there's a storm coming in." She pulled a ledger book off the shelf. "The moon's getting full, too. You know how it gets." "Sure do." Elodin crouched down and began to unlace his shoes. "Where did they stash Whin this time?" (Page 308, TNOW, scene with Elodin in the crockery). Why would the movement of the moon or storms for that matter affect the mental state of patients in the crockery? And does this mean that there cracking has something to do with the Fae?

3. The local priest is referred to in TNOW as Pater Leoden in TNOW, Abbe Grimes in WMF and later Abbe Leodin in WMF. Kvothe apparently. Kvothe apparently likes him reasonably well. "Grimes is a decent sort for a priest",  but later says: "And I don't get along with the local priest," Kvothe admitted". All very strange. Maybe the priest's name is Leoden Grimes, but this is something of a stretch since most other characters including Kvothe, don't have last names.

[Kouran]

Stego, on 23 March 2011 - 08:30 AM, said:

Are you high? That's not the endpoint, but the beginning. There are demons and Chandrian to kill, a throne to claim, and Denna to finally fuck.

I certainly hope he never ends up with Denna. I think it would be far more fun if he lives his whole life pining for Denna to never have her.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Stego,

Nope, I don't think things will end "epically" for Kvothe.

[wolf spider]

I finished reading the book a few days ago.  In general I liked it, although I think I enjoyed the first book better--  I thought the pacing was better.  I found WMF a little slow in places- especially in the last half of the book I found myself counting pages a lot.

I know that there are probably a lot of important details that will come into play in the next book.  It was also important to show how Kvothe learns to fight and to become a better student.  Still, I thought chasing down the Chandrian was going to be a key part of the story, and it seemed like almost nothing was gained on that front.  So I felt a little frustrated, I guess.  I wonder if he will even find them in the next book or if that will be left undone?

I also don't care for Denna at all.  Clearly she's been hurt in the past and her current patron is beating her.  But I just can't summon up the energy to give a damn.  At all.  I don't care that she has been emotionally traumatized in the past.  I wish she would skip town and never return.  As far as that goes- I don't understand about her leaving.  I guess she's trying to get away from her suitors/clients- but how does leaving town for a week or two and then returning to the same place (sometimes even the same inn) help?  Wouldn't they be able to find her again quite easily?  And if skipping town for a short time is all it takes, why not just break it off in person?  I guess what I'm saying is that if her suitors/clients are so easily put off, is it really necessary for her to leave town at all?  Maybe someone else can explain it to me.  

I wish PR would introduce a few female characters who are not beautiful.  I don't think there is a single ugly (or overweight) woman in the whole series.  

I know this post sounds negative now, which is maybe unfair.  I did enjoy the book. PR is a very entertaining and engaging author.  I loved the scene where Kvothe is heading back to the university and stops by a brothel to hand out all of his rings.  That was hilarious.

I also loved that he visited Trapis.  After the first book, I was wondering if he would see him again.

[AverageGuy]

grinachu, on 23 March 2011 - 08:40 AM, said:

1. The two books are strange in how interchangeably Kote, Kvothe and the innkeeper are used in third person narrative. I haven't been able to work out the logic of it. I'm not talking about what people are calling him throughout the novels btw. I am talking about how the author refers to him. The strangest thing is midway through WMF, the author suddenly switches to calling him Kvothe and then abruptly reverts back to Kote. I am sure there is some logic there but I can't make head or tail of it.

2. "She gave him an uneasy smile. "They're too wild today, sir. We think there's a storm coming in." She pulled a ledger book off the shelf. "The moon's getting full, too. You know how it gets." "Sure do." Elodin crouched down and began to unlace his shoes. "Where did they stash Whin this time?" (Page 308, TNOW, scene with Elodin in the crockery). Why would the movement of the moon or storms for that matter affect the mental state of patients in the crockery? And does this mean that there cracking has something to do with the Fae?

3. The local priest is referred to in TNOW as Pater Leoden in TNOW, Abbe Grimes in WMF and later Abbe Leodin in WMF. Kvothe apparently. Kvothe apparently likes him reasonably well. "Grimes is a decent sort for a priest",  but later says: "And I don't get along with the local priest," Kvothe admitted". All very strange. Maybe the priest's name is Leoden Grimes, but this is something of a stretch since most other characters including Kvothe, don't have last names.

1.  I remember the abrupt change, it stood out to me, too.  It's something like, Kvothe pauses in telling the story.  The innkeeper greets someone when they come in.  Kote serves him his drink.  It reflects on which person he's being at the moment.  "The innkeeper" is a midpoint.

2.  In that case, they were talking about one of Elodin's guilders, a Namer.  So I think it's more like Naming has something to do with the moon.  It would explain why Iax wanted the moon in Faerie and why the old Knowers started a war when he halfway succeeded.  And even if it wasn't the case before he stole the moon, messing with the moon might've affected Namers after the fact.  

Or Rothfuss is just commenting on "lunacy."  As for weather, I have no clue.  I can't think of why it should have an effect other than maybe weather just affecting unstable people more than it usually affect stable ones.

3.  I think you're right about his name being Leoden Grimes.  Pater and Abbe are basically Father and Abbot.  We do know some people with last names-- mostly nobility, but a priest might come from minor nobility.

Edited by AverageGuy, 23 March 2011 - 10:49 AM.

[Guy Kilmore]

Ser Scot A Ellison, on 23 March 2011 - 05:14 AM, said:

Curethan,

What makes you think that things will ever look up for Kvothe?  We already know how Kvothe's story ends.  We've been looking at the end point of his story for two books.  The Waystone Inn.

While technically correct, this series really has two stories going on.  One is the story Kvothe is telling and the other is the story of Kvothe telling a story.

We know that the first ends at the Waystone Inn, we do not know the results of the second.

[Guy Kilmore]

wolf spider, on 23 March 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

I wish PR would introduce a few female characters who are not beautiful.  I don't think there is a single ugly (or overweight) woman in the whole series.  

I think you are running into the problem about how Kvothe sees women in stories.  The women in his stories are always beautiful.  (Bast makes a joke about it and remarks that Denna has a crooked nose.)

I think one of the reasons is because of Kvothe's time with Felurian, I think she cares little about how a man may appear, just in the act of passion and desire.  (I.E. she sees the beauty in every man.)

I think Kvothe has a little of this as well, hence when he sees a woman; he starts from the perspective that that woman is beautiful.

[thistlepong]

It's true.  Denna says she has blotchy skin.  Bast says she has a crooked nose.  He dwells longer on dark-haired women, but the blondes are still praised.

Still, as a criticism of Rothfuss, it's fair and accurate.

Grinachu:
1. Interested to see what you come up with.

2. When Elodin asks the Naming-specific question during admissions, it's about the moon. Given the prevalence of folks listening to the wind, Namers among them, we could hazard the guess that a coming storm makes whtat the wind says louder and more difficult to understand.  Kvothe notes at the end of WMF, "It can't quite decide if it wants to storm."

-In that chapter, Winn tells Elodin not to bring the thunder when he comes back.  Is he talking about Kvothe?

[wolf spider]

Guy Kilmore, on 23 March 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

I think you are running into the problem about how Kvothe sees women in stories.  The women in his stories are always beautiful.  (Bast makes a joke about it and remarks that Denna has a crooked nose.)

I think one of the reasons is because of Kvothe's time with Felurian, I think she cares little about how a man may appear, just in the act of passion and desire.  (I.E. she sees the beauty in every man.)

I think Kvothe has a little of this as well, hence when he sees a woman; he starts from the perspective that that woman is beautiful.

I think that's a really reasonable interpretation.  Kvothe could easily be the type of person who sees the beauty in all women.  To be fair, I can't really think of any men that he describes as unattractive either.  So that interpretation makes sense, but it does make the world seem a bit flat and unaccessible to me because I don't really relate to any of the women in it.

[Stego]

Kouran, on 23 March 2011 - 08:44 AM, said:

I certainly hope he never ends up with Denna.

He's not going to end up with her. I said they are going to fuck. And it is going to be better than with his piksy queen. And then he's never going to be able to have that again. The suffering is worse that way.

[Tears of Lys]

Regarding Denna:  I at first didn't care for her much either, mainly because she seemed to be toying with our guy's feelings.  But as her story fleshes out, I can understand why she doesn't stay in one place for long.  She has to live by her beauty and wit the same way Kvothe has to live by his skills.  And for a young and beautiful woman, that's particularly dangerous.  She's just a step away from being a prostitute (which it sounds like she was for a while there.)  

Worse yet, (for her), she tries to maintain a form of independence and sense of self, which is quite impossible while being dependent upon men for her livelihood.  She attracts the attentions of a particular wealthy man and stays around just until the inevitable pay-off becomes imminent, then leaves in the dead of night.  By the time she reappears on the scene, the man has moved on to some other young lovely.  

She's way out of her depth with Master Ash, of course.  

[Stego]

wolf spider, on 23 March 2011 - 11:52 AM, said:

So that interpretation makes sense, but it does make the world seem a bit flat and unaccessible to me because I don't really relate to any of the women in it.

I don't understand that at all. I'm horribly ugly and I relate to heroes in stories all the time!

And I mean, come on! The standards in Kvothe's world have got to be low. He's a Ginger, and he's not even singled out for that fact! He should be stoned!