The Wise Man's Fear III [Spoilers and Speculation within]

[thistlepong]

Some of you, probably most of you, are much better than me at this.

Is the meter related to any of the other poetry?

"Like a drawstone even in our sleep

Standing stone by old road is the way

To lead you deeper into Fae.

Laystone as you lay in hill or dell

Greystone leads to something something 'ell"

something something 'ell

• Myr Tariniel?
  
• something Faeriniel?
  

[Gaston de Foix]

Faeriniel I thought.

Incidentally is Faeriniel a place in Fae, a synonym for Fae, or someplace else entirely. The poem makes little sense if it's just Fae.

Myr Tarieniel has been destroyed completely no?

[Slick Mongoose]

Hell?

[lanceschaubert]

I think that's a really reasonable interpretation. Kvothe could easily be the type of person who sees the beauty in all women. To be fair, I can't really think of any men that he describes as unattractive either. So that interpretation makes sense, but it does make the world seem a bit flat and unaccessible to me because I don't really relate to any of the women in it.

I like this. In fact, I think it fits with him loosing his virginity to Felurian. Why else would he be able to name her? The minx is used to man-hoes, not some virgin boy-namer.

I noticed this too and wondered. I discounted it in my head for three reasons. 1. Ir's good to have three pieces of data to base a theory on and there are only two instances we can point to 2. In the first, Ambrose room incident, the wind subsequently pushes him or slams him or something, does something counter-productive and painful. 3. every time we are shown naming we are shown how important finding the name of the wind and saying it is. For Kvothe to be able to manipulate wind without saying its name goes somewhat against the internal logic of the books. Have I convinced you :lol:

Totally agree that Kvothe having learned all those Names would be a badass. I think the last ring "the Nameless one", would be Kvothe discovering his own name or some other living person/living creature.

The nameless one can just as easily be Felurian. He names her. Also, it could be Denna - the "nameless" girl.

I completely agree with you about there being some relationship between the moon and Naming (and frankly I didn't even think about "lunacy").

one slight disagreement I read the passage as referring to all the occupants though of Crockery not just Alder Whin. "Elodin strolled up to a large desk where a young woman stood. "Why

isn't anyone outside, Emmie?" She gave him an uneasy smile. "They're too wild today, sir." (Pg. 308).

Maybe the movement of the moon has this effect on sympathists too? Elxa Dal asks about the synodic period of the moon at Kvothe's first admissions interview. It's hard to imagine there are so many potential namers at the university.

The moon moves all of Fae toward earth, throwing off the balance. Therefore, crockers who studied naming would be more sensitive & sympathists who spend a lot of time with facts and figures (what Chesterton would call mathmatical-madness) would be thrown further off.

-In that chapter, Winn tells Elodin not to bring the thunder when he comes back. Is he talking about Kvothe? (Thistlepong). I think Whin has captured/recognised a part of Kvothe's Name. It certainly correlates to Maedre. I don't think it is the whole name though: Elodin makes a point of telling us how long and complicated the names of living creatures are.

Not long like "a whole bunch of characters" but long as in "it takes a long time to understand the whole of a thing" thus indicating complicated. Maedre is his name.

He has to learn Naming.

No he doesn't. We have no indication that he has to become a namer. He might fail completely, though that would be a let-down.

[Quadratix]

Just a thought given the Adem:

1. They have very few (if any) sexual mores

2. They don't understand/believe in fatherhood

Therefore, is incest allowed due to lack of awareness?

[AverageGuy]

Just a thought given the Adem:

1. They have very few (if any) sexual mores

2. They don't understand/believe in fatherhood

Therefore, is incest allowed due to lack of awareness?

Maternal brothers and sisters, mothers and children might be guarded by the Westermarck effect. Beyond that, though, nothing prevents relationships between fathers and children or paternal half-siblings. And between cousins-- well, it seems to be a small quasi-medieval community anyway. I vaguely recall Kvothe mentioning how the Adem all look alike when he goes into the dining hall for the first time, so I wouldn't be surprised by a certain level of inbreeding. Also explains the small size.

[Gaston de Foix]

I like this. In fact, I think it fits with him loosing his virginity to Felurian. Why else would he be able to name her? The minx is used to man-hoes, not some virgin boy-namer.

The nameless one can just as easily be Felurian. He names her. Also, it could be Denna - the "nameless" girl.

The moon moves all of Fae toward earth, throwing off the balance. Therefore, crockers who studied naming would be more sensitive & sympathists who spend a lot of time with facts and figures (what Chesterton would call mathmatical-madness) would be thrown further off.

Not long like "a whole bunch of characters" but long as in "it takes a long time to understand the whole of a thing" thus indicating complicated. Maedre is his name.

No he doesn't. We have no indication that he has to become a namer. He might fail completely, though that would be a let-down.

He becomes a Namer. He says in NOTW he did learn the Name of the Wind. And he does wear rings on his left hand indicating he has learnt the names of blood, ice, wind etc etc.

Kvothe forgets Felurian's true name and in fact cannot recall it immediately afterwards. So it can't be her name he wears as a ring.

Oh and Maedre is not his name. At best it's a part of his name.

Kvothe describes Felurian's name as four lines of music. I assume his name will be similarly long. Kvothe plays the secret music that lies at the heart of him for Vashet and there is no indication it is a word or a note.

[Ser Spidey]

Just a quick question, and one that can probably be answered shortly:

What's all this ruff about Manet and him corresponding to other characters from the past? I've been reading these threads on and off for a while, and of course both the books, but I saw nothing pointing to his importance. Could you explain, or at least provide a link to an explanatory post?

[flare]

I think it started with someone pointing out that Manet asked Kvothe the same question in the Eolian as Elodin in the admissions later. The spades thing.

[unJon]

Manet is made of an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.

[AverageGuy]

What's all this ruff about Manet and him corresponding to other characters from the past? I've been reading these threads on and off for a while, and of course both the books, but I saw nothing pointing to his importance.

Don't worry about it, you didn't overlook anything in the books, it's a joke. Started here.

[thistlepong]

The nameless one can just as easily be Felurian. He names her. Also, it could be Denna - the "nameless" girl.

Bast cites "the creation of The Nameless," as one of the things the Cthaeh is responsible for, and the word appears when Kvothe draws the attention of whatever while they're gathering shadows. But I kind of wondered if it didn't have something to to with the Lackless rhymes.

We have no indication that he has to become a namer.

He becomes a Namer. He says in NOTW he did learn the Name of the Wind.

Kvothe not learning a few names tops my list of literary fouls.

Lance, now that you've finished, are you more convinced book three will be rubedo? After reading your blog post I toyed with the idea that Stapes's ring was sort of a literary nod to citrinitas rather than an actual error.

[jurble]

I assume the Nameless were weapons created to kill Namers during the Creation War.

[Garlan the Gallant]

I assume the Nameless were weapons created to kill Namers during the Creation War.

Awesome concept is awesome.

[thistlepong]

Around this time of year, my partner’s teaching Midnight’s Children, and while we haven’t made it far in the WMF audiobook yet we’re still talking about both novels, exploring parallels and sharing thoughts. To that end she made me reread Salman Rushdie’s “Eratta.”

Allow me to add to the hyperbolic comparisons.

I found this bit interesting.

Conventionally unreliable narrators are often a little stupid, less able to work out what’s going on around them than the reader. In such narratives, one deciphers the true meaning of events by ‘seeing through’ the narrators faulty logic.

For those of you that haven’t read it, Midnight’s Children is fantastic by any, by every, definition. Rushdie explains that he purposely inserted errata into the text in order to deepen the narrative and explore Saleem, the narrator.

So my subject changed, was no longer a search for lost time, had become the way in which we remake the past to suit our present purposes, using memory as our tool. Saleem’s greatest desire is for what he calls meaning, and near the end of his life he sets out to write himself, in the hope that by doing so he may achieve the significance that the events of his adulthood have drained from him. He is no dispassionate, disinterested chronicler. He wants to shape his material that the reader will be forced to concede his central role.

The underline is mine, but it sang out clear as a bell. And the words have a remarkable resonance for the Kote we are presented with. The search for beginnings in NotW reminded me of Saleem meandering into his narrative and the list of names is straight from page one.

He is also remembering, of course, and one of the simplest truths about any set of memories is that many of them will be false.

I read and reread NotW with a healthy skepticism. Somewhere partway through WMF I lost it. By the time I reached the parts folk feel are tedious, I was swept up. Tarbean seemed to drag the first time through and I think I slept through it when we listened to it. But it was densely packed; and the same holds true for the Fae and Ademre in WMF. They seem overlong and overwrought, but there's a lot to digest and sort through.

[Gaston de Foix]

Around this time of year, my partner’s teaching Midnight’s Children, and while we haven’t made it far in the WMF audiobook yet we’re still talking about both novels, exploring parallels and sharing thoughts. To that end she made me reread Salman Rushdie’s “Eratta.”

Allow me to add to the hyperbolic comparisons.

I found this bit interesting.

Conventionally unreliable narrators are often a little stupid, less able to work out what’s going on around them than the reader. In such narratives, one deciphers the true meaning of events by ‘seeing through’ the narrators faulty logic.

For those of you that haven’t read it, Midnight’s Children is fantastic by any, by every, definition. Rushdie explains that he purposely inserted errata into the text in order to deepen the narrative and explore Saleem, the narrator.

So my subject changed, was no longer a search for lost time, had become the way in which we remake the past to suit our present purposes, using memory as our tool. Saleem’s greatest desire is for what he calls meaning, and near the end of his life he sets out to write himself, in the hope that by doing so he may achieve the significance that the events of his adulthood have drained from him. He is no dispassionate, disinterested chronicler. He wants to shape his material that the reader will be forced to concede his central role.

The underline is mine, but it sang out clear as a bell. And the words have a remarkable resonance for the Kote we are presented with. The search for beginnings in NotW reminded me of Saleem meandering into his narrative and the list of names is straight from page one.

He is also remembering, of course, and one of the simplest truths about any set of memories is that many of them will be false.

I read and reread NotW with a healthy skepticism. Somewhere partway through WMF I lost it. By the time I reached the parts folk feel are tedious, I was swept up. Tarbean seemed to drag the first time through and I think I slept through it when we listened to it. But it was densely packed; and the same holds true for the Fae and Ademre in WMF. They seem overlong and overwrought, but there's a lot to digest and sort through.

I really like the parallel between Saleem and Kvothe, although Kvothe is very much a hero and Saleem very much an anti-hero. Saleem is looking for meaning while Kvothe believes I think, as an Edema Ruh, that all the truth in the world is to be found in stories.

but while I like the parallel and I read you, Slick Mongoose, Jurble etc talk about the unreliable narrator in WMF all the time, the actual evidence is pretty thin, IMO.

Kvothe tells Bast in WMF after he narrates about the Ctaeth that this narration is his chance to tell the truth behind the stories about him. Apart from Bast's observation that all the women in Kvothe's stories are beautiful, and the Chronicler's noticed discrepancy between Folly and Caesura, I can't think of a legitimate instance of a narrative incongruity (as opposed to errors and infelicities made by PR in writing the story). As to Folly/Bast, it's amply foreshadowed that there is an explanation yet to come. As to the beautiful women, maybe it's just Kvothe being gallant? Obviously the story is influenced by the first person narrative, to the extent that other characters can be a little one-dimensional and we rarely learn first hand how good a musician Kvothe really is. But there is nothing to suggest Kvothe is telling us anything other than the truth intrinsic in the story. On the contrary his mention of things like the real names of the Chandrian tells us he sees this chronicle as important enough to be worth preserving and hopes that it endures.

[unJon]

@grinchau, there are also multiple comments (including by Kvothe) about how all stories contain falsehoods.

[Slick Mongoose]

but while I like the parallel and I read you, Slick Mongoose, Jurble etc talk about the unreliable narrator in WMF all the time, the actual evidence is pretty thin, IMO.

Kvothe tells Bast in WMF after he narrates about the Ctaeth that this narration is his chance to tell the truth behind the stories about him.

You believe him? :P

[thistlepong]

but while I like the parallel and I read you, Slick Mongoose, Jurble etc talk about the unreliable narrator in WMF all the time, the actual evidence is pretty thin, IMO.

The evidence of unreliable narration is overwhelming, obvious, and impossible.

In the frame story, Kvothe all but admits to it more than once. Bast suggests and accepts it. Chronicler embraces it as part of his life's work. And the regulars at the Waystone bicker over details of stories constantly; and the Newarre community actively engages in an editing process regarding the freaky mercenary.

In the chronicle, Skarpi and Arliden faithfully exult in it. Other storytellers notably tell tales, at at least one remove, from their memories of what they themselves were told.

We're presented with multiple versions of multiple stories within a nraative whose central conflict arises from the attempt to enlighten an obscure story from fragments of an historical original.

With Midnight's Children, readers can compare and contrast what's presented with the historical record. With The Kingkiller Chronicle, they can't; but that doesn't mean the structure isn't similar.

Reagrding the comparison, I'm suggesting KKC owes as much to Midnight's Children as to Story of My Life and Cyrano de Bergerac, not that Kvothe's and Saleem are the same. It's magical realism in a frankly magical setting in addition to being a fictional autobiography and the hero's journey.

[coron78]

What kind of magic do you think Denna uses? So far, she has used her hair braid magic twice: once with the "lovely" knot and the other when she used "don't talk to me". Kvothe may not know it, but after she untied the lovely knot, he didn't think her hair was as lovely. And when she whipped up the other knot, Kvothe supposedly "decided" not to say anything until after the knot was removed. He doesn't know Yllish very well so I doubt he could have read the second knot, which means his sleeping mind probably interpreted the magic she was weaving. The knots don't seem to be naming, shaping, or singing. Remnant magic from before the Creation war? Grammerie?