WrathOfMe, on 24 March 2011 - 12:42 AM, said:
Perhaps. But given the Cthaeh's nature, it's also possible that the knowledge that the Masters have is nothing more than children's stories that they don't share because, well, they're children's stories.
True, but then again, that's not a withholding of information. That's a restraint of interest. I still think they know something...
Ser Scot A Ellison, on 24 March 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:
I also think we are reading a tragedy, not a "hero's journey".
"Hero's Journey" as Campbell defines it (whom Rothfuss blatantly interacts with, both critiquing and reinventing), is a broad category encompassing both tragedy and comedy. The tragedy is: do they accept the task or reject it? Faust counts as a hero's journey, but he deals with the devil. Just because Kvothe's tragic doesn't mean he's not a hero, and just because "he knows what kind of story this is", implying a depressing one, doesn't mean he's not on a journey to be refined. It's obvious that book one was nigreddo (emptying him of the chaff and dross) and that book two was albedo (filling him with new information, power and insight). A hero's journey? Oh yes, but a sad one...
cypselus, on 24 March 2011 - 10:35 AM, said:
It's fantasy, an author can do whatever he wants.
The Iceman of the North, on 24 March 2011 - 01:26 PM, said:
A barrow is a man-made mound or hill above a grave, usually reserved for the graves of royalty and other high nobility. A barrow king would be a king buried in a barrow, thus in this case either a spectre or ghost, or an undead.
Yes to the first, no to the second. A barrow king could
be a king buried in a barrow. It could also be king over a barrow(s) as in a mass grave (which we have allusion to). It could also be the king of death/barrows - similar to Hades himself. This would fit some of the descriptions of the baddies in the book. Remember that just because two words are next to each other doesn't mean we know the relationship - we need context. "I've rescued sleeping princesses back from barrow kings" could be an undead king, or could be the king of the dead just as easily.
Garlan the Gallant, on 28 March 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:
Someone mentioned how dennas song might be for the maer. Here is my thought on that: what if the maer believes lanre to be a hero. What if he believes the opposite of kvothe: chandrian are good amyr are evil. It would explain why dennas song is written the way it is. What if the maer and kvothe both ultimately end up at the stone doors but the maer believes oPening them will do good but kvothe realizes that they will release evil. It would explain the cthathe's "witty" remark.
I've thought the same and like this train of thinking.
thistlepong, on 29 March 2011 - 09:58 PM, said:
Bast cites "the creation of The Nameless," as one of the things the Cthaeh is responsible for, and the word appears when Kvothe draws the attention of whatever while they're gathering shadows. But I kind of wondered if it didn't have something to to with the Lackless rhymes.
Kvothe not learning a few names tops my list of literary fouls.
Lance, now that you've finished, are you more convinced book three will be rubedo? After reading your blog post I toyed with the idea that Stapes's ring was sort of a literary nod to citrinitas rather than an actual error.
To the first, I would quote this:
On his first hand he wore rings of stone,
Iron, amber, wood, and bone.
There were rings unseen on his second hand.
One was blood in a flowing band.
One of air all whisper thin,
And the ring of ice had a flaw within,
Full faintly shone the ring of flame,
and the final ring was without name.
-- Sure I like Felurian as the last name, seeing as he might not like to share that detail (asking a namer to list their names is like asking how often they make love to their wives). Sure I like Denna (since she changes her name so often). But honestly, the only other time we find something "Nameless" is the Cthaeh.
To the second, I must clarify. Of course I know the children's rhyme, but simply because it's in the story doesn't mean it happened that way. Kvothe didn't burn down the entire city of Trebon, only part of it, and only on accident, contrary to what the active phrase "I burned" implies. Just because there's a rumor about his rings doesn't mean he has all of those - we've only come across iron, wood, and bone on his first hand, after all (though obviously a lot could change). What I mean is we have no indication that he becomes a namer in any formal sense of the word. We know he gets kicked out of the university fully (this he affirms at the end of book one concerning what Ambrose did to get him out), so no arcanum guilder (in one sense) means no namer. I simply mean that it's vague, not that he knows no names. I have my personal doubts as to how many names he truly acquires in the end (though I hope he has like twelve). I don't see the literary foul here... (or perhaps this was directed at the other person...)
As for the Rubedo, absolutely. I know Rothfuss didn't plan much, but he's pretty confident about the main storyline. As a framework, the alchemy gig makes more sense than anything else. That said, in two books we've heard "it was the sound of a man who was waiting to die" or something along those lines four times in a row at the beginning and at the end. Rubedo necessitates death in some sense to achieve reconciliation - some blood needs spilt. The questions remaining: whose blood? who's divided? what needs reconciled? and most importantly - how does kvothe need to change/grow up/get harder, better, faster, stronger?
& now for something completely different...
People have mentioned how Kv has no moral compass. That's not entirely true as some things piss him off, innocent girls being raped, harrassed (by Ambrose), or brigands terrorizing the roads for instance. These things consistently evoke DRASTIC violent responses from Kvothe, after the culmination of which he starts to Sympathize with the Amyr, not only for their battle against the Chandrian, but for the way they dole out justice. Some of you suspect hidden Amyr documents behind the wall. Others suspect Maer on the opposite side of the Amyr hunt, explaining Denna's song, and the facination with the lock-less box (parallel in mystery to the lock-less door in the library). Still others recognize that the most recent Amyr are human. I'll add to these that after the crazy show-down with the bandits, Kvothe's arms were covered with blood (Amyr tatoo, anyone?)
For your consideration: What if Kvothe's best chance of defeating the Chandrian and/or the Cthaeh (if you're in the crowd even considering that) was to find and join
Edited by lanceschaubert, 30 March 2011 - 02:32 PM.