423 replies to this topic

[An_Other]

So Loooong time lurker at these boards, but here's my first thread.

I've seen a lot of people suggesting Jon and Dany are going to make out, write each other love poems (make babies), and generally be the most badass couple ever to walk the lands of Westeros.

I'm wondering what situation could place the two of them together where they would actually spend any face(mostly lip)time together.

[Eddison Tollet]

If Dany were to go to the Wall to help fight the Others, or maybe she simply gets word of Stannis being there and decides to eliminate one of the competitors for the throne, if she ends up at the Wall she would likely have reason to spend some time with leader of the NW.

[Thefalconemperor]

Daenerys will make it into the wall sooner or later since she's most likely Azor Ahai reborn, and if isn't due to it, many of the crownland noble houses are likely still Targ loyalists in secret.

Besides, Dany's visions strongly suggest she will fall in love with Jon. Let's not forget Jon should be quite a catch considering who his parents are, besides he's a Targ, so it wouldn't be unrealistic.

[Whatever]

My theory.
Dany falls in love with jon. According to the undyings, jon is the mount for love or something like this.
They will have sex, for sure (mount.)

Dany finds out / dany already knew and she tells him that jon is a targ. Jon doesn't take it well
("luke, i'm not your father")

So, jon leaves dany. (Maybe for someone else...i am a huge, and probably the only, jon-arya shipper).
However, they won't have an happy ending.

(my theory, part 2. dany goes mad and becomes one of the bad guys. she has to be killed in order to save the kingdom or something similar)

[beehives]

I really don't foresee a "high school romance" for Jon & Dany. Any love between them should be full of pain and tragedy. I'd like to see a battle of personalities between the two since they both have had remarkably similar "coming of age" experiences. There is a lot of potential chemistry there, but also a lot of potential tension. I don't know where that tension would come from - perhaps in their first meeting Dany thinks Jon just wants to use her dragons to defeat the Others, and Jon thinks Dany is just another schemer for the Iron Throne. Anyway, I hope Martin writes their meeting as a well-matched battle of wits, lust, and vexation.

[XtremeOne1]

I really don't see them hooking up...It's just a fan wish. I really see Dany alone, leaving with her dragons, not ruling Westeros because well, she doesn't want too. To me that would her bittersweet but happy ending.

Not sure how Jon will end up. He's a Stark so the odds are against him :-p.

[Whatever]

beehives, on 01 April 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

I really don't foresee a "high school romance" for Jon & Dany. Any love between them should be full of pain and tragedy. I'd like to see a battle of personalities between the two since they both have had remarkably similar "coming of age" experiences. There is a lot of potential chemistry there, but also a lot of potential tension. I don't know where that tension would come from - perhaps in their first meeting Dany thinks Jon just wants to use her dragons to defeat the Others, and Jon thinks Dany is just another schemer for the Iron Throne. Anyway, I hope Martin writes their meeting as a well-matched battle of wits, lust, and vexation.

agree, and i'm sure you're right. Martin will never write a high school romance, no way!

[Monday]

Whatever, on 01 April 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:

So, jon leaves dany. (Maybe for someone else...i am a huge, and probably the only, jon-arya shipper).
However, they won't have an happy ending.

No idea why, but that made my evening. I can't stop giggling. Have you posted that in Unpopular Theories yet?

Edited by Monday, 02 April 2011 - 01:15 AM.

[Monday]

Still giggling. Stick 'er with pointy end Jon!

Ok, I'm done.

[Whatever]

LOL xD

EDIT:

Monday, on 02 April 2011 - 01:15 AM, said:

No idea why, but that made my evening. I can't stop giggling. Have you posted that in Unpopular Theories yet?

No.. i posted in a couple of other threads, but no there.
I know it's quite unlikely, but i've always thought their relationship is/was really weird.
Come on, jon compare the girl he is banging to his sister! This is weird.

Edited by Whatever, 02 April 2011 - 08:08 AM.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Thefalconemperor, on 01 April 2011 - 05:32 PM, said:

Besides, Dany's visions strongly suggest she will fall in love with Jon.

I always go wtf?! when I see this.  Dany sees a lot of shit in her visions in the house.  One of these things is "a blue flower in a chink of ice".  People seem to think because it's a blue FLOWER that means love somehow?  But no, it's a blue FLOWER because Jon is really Lyanna's son and Lyanna loved blue roses.  
Flower != Love.  
Flower == Lyanna.  

As for whether Jon will be a mount, again Dany has descriptions of like 10,000,000 random things/objects/etc.  Any or none of them could be one of her mounts/dragon heads.  

I really think it's silly/premature to say things like DANY'S PROPHECIES DEFINITELY MEAN JON + DANY = TRUE LOVE 4 EVAA!!!

Jon could just be a valuable ally that Dany makes at the wall vs. the Others.  Which is too obvious to even bother mentioning for the READER, perhaps, but it's not obvious to DANY.  It'll be an important clue to her that this ally on the wall is more than he seems at first (e.g. R+L).

Edited by MyDogIsNamedDanerys, 02 April 2011 - 09:36 AM.

[Noroldis]

beehives, on 01 April 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

There is a lot of potential chemistry there, but also a lot of potential tension. I don't know where that tension would come from - perhaps in their first meeting Dany thinks Jon just wants to use her dragons to defeat the Others, and Jon thinks Dany is just another schemer for the Iron Throne.

Don't forget that as far as Dany knows, Jon is the bastard of one of the Usurper's dogs. Maybe she'll have thawed on that somewhat due to Barristan and others telling her that Ned was an honorable man, but even so I can easily envision her snubbing/dismissing Jon during their initial meeting... only to realize she's made a huge mistake when R+L=J is revealed (if it is indeed true), as Dany clearly idolizes Rhaegar.

Edited by Noroldis, 02 April 2011 - 09:20 AM.

[beehives]

Noroldis, on 02 April 2011 - 09:19 AM, said:

Don't forget that as far as Dany knows, Jon is the bastard of one of the Usurper's dogs. Maybe she'll have thawed on that somewhat due to Barristan and others telling her that Ned was an honorable man, but even so I can easily envision her snubbing/dismissing Jon during their initial meeting... only to realize she's made a huge mistake when R+L=J is revealed (if it is indeed true),

Somehow I had forgotten about that. But wouldn't Jaime be highest on her hate list, next to Cersei, Stannis, et al? I'd think Jon would be kind of low on her priorities for vengeance. Also, she could have Tyrion to temper her views on Jon if Tyrion ends up on her side. Just hoping that a new fresh situation will emerge in the story that will provide some unexpected conflict in addition to the Usurper thing.

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as Dany clearly idolizes Rhaegar

This made me also think that she might form a new "brotherly" relationship with Jon, to replace the one she never had with Rhaegar. Or Viserys for that matter.

[Errant Bard]

Whatever, on 02 April 2011 - 08:05 AM, said:

Come on, jon compare the girl he is banging to his sister! This is weird.

Jon is not right in the head.
I doubt Arya would compare her future flings to Jon, on the other hand.

MyDogIsNamedDanerys, on 02 April 2011 - 09:14 AM, said:

I always go wtf?! when I see this.  Dany sees a lot of shit in her visions in the house.  One of these things is "a blue flower in a chink of ice".  People seem to think because it's a blue FLOWER that means love somehow?  But no, it's a blue FLOWER because Jon is really Lyanna's son and Lyanna loved blue roses.  
Flower != Love.  
Flower == Lyanna.

Actually, it's a blue rose. Dany says "flower" when she sees it, but we see that she tells Jorah it was a blue rose:

"Perhaps," she said reluctantly. "Yet the things I saw-
"A dead man in the prow of a ship, a blue rose, a banquet of blood... what does any of it mean, Khaleesi? A mummer's dragon, you said. What is a mummer's dragon, pray?"

And people think it means love not because of the flower, but because of the sweet scent it releases, and because of the association with the "three mounts" stanza:

three mounts must you ride... one to bed and one to dread and one to love...

after all, the triplet is called "bride of fire", and seems to match one for one the "three mounts" line.

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.... mother of dragons, bride of fire...

[Noroldis]

beehives, on 03 April 2011 - 01:32 AM, said:

Somehow I had forgotten about that. But wouldn't Jaime be highest on her hate list, next to Cersei, Stannis, et al? I'd think Jon would be kind of low on her priorities for vengeance.

Certainly Jaime, Stannis and others who directly contributed to the Targaryens' downfall and/or directly served Robert afterward would be higher on her hate list. But we were speaking of Jon and Dany in terms of a possible romantic relationship between them, and what obstacles might stand in the way of that.

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Also, she could have Tyrion to temper her views on Jon if Tyrion ends up on her side. Just hoping that a new fresh situation will emerge in the story that will provide some unexpected conflict in addition to the Usurper thing.

True, and besides tempering Dany's first negative thoughts about Jon, Tyrion could point out that it's unfair to hold children accountable for the (mis)deeds of their parents, especially considering that Dany is herself the daughter of the Mad King who precipitated his own House's downfall.

Quote

This made me also think that she might form a new "brotherly" relationship with Jon, to replace the one she never had with Rhaegar. Or Viserys for that matter.

I would agree with you if we hadn't seen Dany's visions in the House of the Undying. Maybe Dany will at first be satisfied with just a brotherly relationship with Jon, but IMO sooner or later she'll start wanting more from Jon.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Errant Bard, on 03 April 2011 - 02:00 AM, said:

"Perhaps," she said reluctantly. "Yet the things I saw-
"A dead man in the prow of a ship, a blue rose, a banquet of blood... what does any of it mean, Khaleesi? A mummer's dragon, you said. What is a mummer's dragon, pray?"

And people think it means love not because of the flower, but because of the sweet scent it releases, and because of the association with the "three mounts" stanza:

three mounts must you ride... one to bed and one to dread and one to love...

after all, the triplet is called "bride of fire", and seems to match one for one the "three mounts" line.

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.... mother of dragons, bride of fire...

I see your interpretation, but ther'es just so much MORE that happens, most of which is unexplained.  It's hard to say anything conclusive, IMO.

Sweet scent is interesting, but don't blue roses generally smell sweet...?  And if metaphorical it could mean anything positive.

Also I think the bride of fire explanation you give is sort of working backwards - you're assuming that these three things must all be Dany's lovers because one of them seems to be (if this is her silver riding to her first wedding night).  

Noroldis, on 03 April 2011 - 07:59 AM, said:

Certainly Jaime, Stannis and others who directly contributed to the Targaryens' downfall and/or directly served Robert afterward would be higher on her hate list. But we were speaking of Jon and Dany in terms of a possible romantic relationship between them, and what obstacles might stand in the way of that.

True, and besides tempering Dany's first negative thoughts about Jon, Tyrion could point out that it's unfair to hold children accountable for the (mis)deeds of their parents, especially considering that Dany is herself the daughter of the Mad King who precipitated his own House's downfall.

Where do people get this freakish idea that TYRION (murderer, kingslayer, and rapist) is a good candidate to be Dany's moral compass, of all people, or even that she needs one???  She hasn't even thought of Ned Stark since aGoT, and that was repeating the only piece of information she had at the time.  People blow this issue WAYYY out of proportion.  Dany wants her due - the throne of Westeros.  She probably also wants her family's murderers put to justice.  Dany is not one to blame the children for the crimes of their fathers - she already knows that while Rhaegar was noble, Aerys was a monster.  She is accepting this and would not be instantly suspicious of Jon because he is the bastard child of Ned Stark.  

If anything, Tyrion's gone mad enough that he might encourage Dany the other way - for example, encourage her to have Jaime executed rather than pardoned or sent to the wall, for example.  A Lannister always pays his debts.

[Noroldis]

MyDogIsNamedDanerys, on 03 April 2011 - 08:32 AM, said:

Where do people get this freakish idea that TYRION (murderer, kingslayer, and rapist) is a good candidate to be Dany's moral compass, of all people, or even that she needs one??? She hasn't even thought of Ned Stark since aGoT, and that was repeating the only piece of information she had at the time.

I think you mean kinslayer, not kingslayer . As to Dany needing a moral compass, perhaps it's not so much that as someone who give her good advice, particularly regarding the game of thrones. And concerning Ned, why should she think of him when she doesn't need to and has many other concerns vying for her attention? But when she comes face-to-face with Jon (or is on her way to meeting him), presumably still believed to be Ned Stark's bastard at that time, then she'll have cause to revisit her thoughts on Ned.

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People blow this issue WAYYY out of proportion.

Of course we do. We're ASOIAF fans dedicated enough to spend dozens, hundreds or in some cases even thousands of hours on a message board discussing the series. Every single aspect and detail of the books is eventually going to be thoroughly analyzed, discussed, and almost certainly blown out of proportion.

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Dany is not one to blame the children for the crimes of their fathers - she already knows that while Rhaegar was noble, Aerys was a monster. She is accepting this and would not be instantly suspicious of Jon because he is the bastard child of Ned Stark.

Does she currently know and accepts that Aerys was a monster who had to be cast down? IIRC, the worst she knows of Aerys is Barristan telling her that Aerys was called the Mad King, and then, when Dany protested that that was a lie put about by the Usurper's dogs, equivocated rather than describe Aerys's crimes. Maybe, probably, by the time she meets Jon she'll have accepted that Aerys was a dreadful king and thus that Ned and Robert were justified in rebelling, but at the moment I'm not at all convinced she does.

Spoiler

As for Jon himself, given what we've seen of him in the Dance spoiler chapters, I'll be surprised if he doesn't have a dark reputation by the time Dany meets him, a reputation that will in and of itself be reason enough for Dany to be initially wary of Jon.

[Errant Bard]

MyDogIsNamedDanerys, on 03 April 2011 - 08:32 AM, said:

I see your interpretation, but ther'es just so much MORE that happens, most of which is unexplained.  It's hard to say anything conclusive, IMO.

Uh, yeah, I was not saying it was conclusive, I just gave an explanation of why people could see love in the prophecy, since you didn't see it yourself.

Quote

Also I think the bride of fire explanation you give is sort of working backwards - you're assuming that these three things must all be Dany's lovers because one of them seems to be (if this is her silver riding to her first wedding night).  

Backwards? How so, I don't understand? It's called bride of fire, and we have her first husband featured in vision number one. To assumed that the two other visions show future husband flows naturally. What's the not-backwards way to see it?

[Whatever]

Errant Bard, on 03 April 2011 - 11:27 AM, said:

Backwards? How so, I don't understand? It's called bride of fire, and we have her first husband featured in vision number one. To assumed that the two other visions show future husband flows naturally. What's the not-backwards way to see it?

Noroldis, on 03 April 2011 - 09:20 AM, said:

Spoiler

As for Jon himself, given what we've seen of him in the Dance spoiler chapters, I'll be surprised if he doesn't have a dark reputation by the time Dany meets him, a reputation that will in and of itself be reason enough for Dany to be initially wary of Jon.

I sadly agree here.

Noroldis, on 03 April 2011 - 09:20 AM, said:

Of course we do. We're ASOIAF fans dedicated enough to spend dozens, hundreds or in some cases even thousands of hours on a message board discussing the series. Every single aspect and detail of the books is eventually going to be thoroughly analyzed, discussed, and almost certainly blown out of proportion.

this is just brilliant

[Faint]

Count me as among those that firmly believe that Jon is the product of R + L and that Daenerys will come to love him and have sex with him per the prophecy at the House of the Undying.

Having said all that, nothing in the prophecy or anywhere else in the book indicates that Jon would love Daenerys back.  That's why Jon + Daenerys = <3 is way premature.  Nothing backs that theory besides wishful thinking.

What we really have is Jon + Daenerys = Daenerys is in <3.