423 replies to this topic

[DaeneryStormBorn]

What is wrong with Dany being with Jon?  Is Dany not good enough for your super hero nearly Mary Sue Jon?

I say Jon + Dany = new son = New Kingdom of Westeros

[Longclaw the Dark]

Just thowing this out there, for this theory to have any substance they have to meet in the next book. Mainly because i really don't see GRRM having them meet in the final book, falling in love and singing the song of ice and fire.

[Ser Wun Wun]

I've been re-watching both seasons of the show recently...and the way they are handling Jon and Dany certainly backs up the idea that they are going to be involved in the future.  Almost every single Dany scene is followed by a Jon scene, or vice versa.  I refuse to believe that that is just a coincidence.  I haven't noticed the show doing that for any other characters, even ones we know for a fact will interact significantly later.  It is hard not to notice some obvious aesthetic parallels/juxtapositions they are drawing between Jon/Dany as well (the whole fire/ice thing).  

Some people think it would be cliche, but Martin hasn't exactly invented the wheel here.  There are several common fantasy tropes in this series already, GRRM has just put his own subversive spin on them to keep them interesting.  I for one would love to see what he would do with an epic romance like Jon/Dany would be.  There has been a lot of sex/lust in this series, but not much real romance.  I think we are overdue for it honestly.

[Ludd]

How about this idea

Shireen dies (as is likely)

Stannis legitimizes Robert's Bastards and names Gendry as his heir

Gendry becomes king (as the oldest male), Arya Queen - Arya the most beautiful etc

[danm_999]

DaeneryStormBorn, on 20 November 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

What is wrong with Dany being with Jon?  Is Dany not good enough for your super hero nearly Mary Sue Jon?

I say Jon + Dany = new son = New Kingdom of Westeros

It's bad fan shipping.

Jon and Daenerys aren't each others types; Daenerys prefers extroverted and flamboyant men like Khal Drogo and Daario Naharis. Jon prefers tomboyish women like Ygritte, Val and Arya (not saying he's attracted to Arya, but the fact he has a closer relationship with her than with Sansa demonstrates who he's going to click better with). Also the fact that they're aunt and nephew is pretty creepy, and since their relationship would have to effectively be established in a single book (because I doubt Daenerys is returning to Westeros before book 7) it'll also look really slapdash.

So when you see people proclaiming they'll end up together, it's not because, so far as we know, they'd be especially compatible or happy with each other, it's because hey why not? The guy and the girl have to end up with each other, right?

Edited by danm_999, 20 November 2012 - 10:34 PM.

[Ludd]

While I have nothing against Jon plus Dany, I somehow think Dany will be happier with a red door.  I think she belong with Sir Jorah

Dany must ride three mounts each somehow connected with marriage

Horse to bed with Drogo to wed,
Drogon to dread - linked with Hiz** or perhaps Victorion/Euron, although the corpse on the boat with sad eyes could be Jon Connington

Dany's third mount - either a bear of a direwolf for love - not sure how you ride either but!!!!

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

danm_999, on 20 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

It's bad fan shipping.

Jon and Daenerys aren't each others types; Daenerys prefers extroverted and flamboyant men like Khal Drogo and Daario Naharis. Jon prefers tomboyish women like Ygritte, Val and Arya (not saying he's attracted to Arya, but the fact he has a closer relationship with her than with Sansa demonstrates who he's going to click better with). Also the fact that they're aunt and nephew is pretty creepy, and since their relationship would have to effectively be established in a single book (because I doubt Daenerys is returning to Westeros before book 7) it'll also look really slapdash.

So when you see people proclaiming they'll end up together, it's not because, so far as we know, they'd be especially compatible or happy with each other, it's because hey why not? The guy and the girl have to end up with each other, right?

Well, there is the prophecy thing...

[DavosSeaworthy]

Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl, on 29 December 2011 - 07:07 PM, said:

Aerys might have been mad, however, he was justified, imho, for killing Brandon and Rickard. They come to KL, Brandon calls out the crowned prince to come out and die and everyone gets mad because because the king kills them. What would Robert/Cercei have done if someone came to his steps and called out Joffrey? We saw them kill an innocent wolf because another wolf bit the little prick for pulling his sword on two unarmed children.

People were not mad that he killed them, they were mad at how they were killed.  Aerys chose fire as his champion when Rickon demanded trial by combat, normally when someone chooses trial by combat against the king, a kingsgaurd is chosen as champion.  Brandon was set up in a strangling device and choked himself to death.  This upset people and showed the madness of Aerys.  People often assume this started the rebellion, but it was Aerys calling for Ned and Robert that caused Jon Arryn to call his banners, not the death of Rickon and Brandon.  Regarding Robert and Cercei, they probably would have chosen a kingsgaurd, Cercei would demand it be Jamie, Robert would oblige and Jamie would kill whoever the person was.

Yo the OP, I'm not too sure a Dany, Jon meeting will result in anything serious, that's just my hunch.

[danm_999]

Winds of Winter blow cold, on 20 November 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

Well, there is the prophecy thing...

The prophecy doesn't really have anything to do with Jon and Dany falling in love.

[Ser Wun Wun]

danm_999, on 20 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

Jon and Daenerys aren't each others types; Daenerys prefers extroverted and flamboyant men like Khal Drogo and Daario Naharis. Jon prefers tomboyish women like Ygritte, Val and Arya.

Your point about the time constraints is valid, I worry about that myself.  But I disagree with the notion that they are just not each others type.  For one, I don't think it's fair to say Dany has a preference for flamboyant, violent alphas like a lot of people do.  Every man she has met in Qarth and Slaver's Bay has been flamboyant.  Daario just seems to have been the most handsome/dashing among that flock of peacocks, and he is the only man she has every really chosen to take as a lover.  Aside from him, her pickings were pretty slim wouldn't you say?  I mean Jorah...ugh.  Jorah is an ugly old man with hair in all the wrong places, so it's not surprising she was not attracted to him.

Dany has never actually come across anyone her own age who is like Jon (Barristan is kind of similar I guess.  A good fighter who is a little stoic and reserved, but he is just too old for Dany to ever think about sexually).  I know some people might say "what about Quentyn?", but aside from both of them maybe having plain looks (Jon might actually be handsome, the books aren't clear) they have little else in common.  Jon is a warrior, a powerful warg and natural leader (all with the stigma of being a bastard hanging over his head).  Quentyn was no warrior, nor even the "alpha" of his own little group of friends.  It's just not an apt comparison imo (I know you didn't bring him up, but I'm preempting it before someone else does).

Anyway, as far as Jon liking her...I think Dany has plenty in common with those women you listed.  Ygritte, Arya and Dany are all strong, willful women with awful tempers (Val might be like that too, but we haven't got to see it yet).  They are all wild, with the "wolf's blood" in them (or dragon's blood in Dany's case, as she so often reminds us).  And Dany leads an army, has dragons, has conquered cities....she is no Sansa.  Add all this to the fact that she is the most beautiful woman in the world, and Jon is in fact a 17 year old male and I'd say yeah....it's safe to say he will be attracted to her.  Whether or not he has the guts to do any thing about it is another question.  Jon before the assassination would not have made a move....post-resurrection Jon with a "new lease on life" might be another story, however.

Edited by Ser Wun Wun, 20 November 2012 - 11:50 PM.

[Florina Stark]

danm_999, on 20 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

It's bad fan shipping.

Jon and Daenerys aren't each others types; Daenerys prefers extroverted and flamboyant men like Khal Drogo and Daario Naharis. Jon prefers tomboyish women like Ygritte, Val and Arya (not saying he's attracted to Arya, but the fact he has a closer relationship with her than with Sansa demonstrates who he's going to click better with). Also the fact that they're aunt and nephew is pretty creepy, and since their relationship would have to effectively be established in a single book (because I doubt Daenerys is returning to Westeros before book 7) it'll also look really slapdash.

So when you see people proclaiming they'll end up together, it's not because, so far as we know, they'd be especially compatible or happy with each other, it's because hey why not? The guy and the girl have to end up with each other, right?

Agreed. I just am not a fan of that ship because its totes a Ship That Passes In The Night. They havent even met, and if GRRM tosses them together near the end of the series, its gonna look kinda badly done.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

DavosSeaworthy, on 20 November 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

People were not mad that he killed them, they were mad at how they were killed.  Aerys chose fire as his champion when Rickon demanded trial by combat, normally when someone chooses trial by combat against the king, a kingsgaurd is chosen as champion.  Brandon was set up in a strangling device and choked himself to death.  This upset people and showed the madness of Aerys.  People often assume this started the rebellion, but it was Aerys calling for Ned and Robert that caused Jon Arryn to call his banners, not the death of Rickon and Brandon.  Regarding Robert and Cercei, they probably would have chosen a kingsgaurd, Cercei would demand it be Jamie, Robert would oblige and Jamie would kill whoever the person was.

Yo the OP, I'm not too sure a Dany, Jon meeting will result in anything serious, that's just my hunch.

From what I can see it's the Kings/Queens choice as to how he/ chooses to dole out punishment, from sending people you don't like to be dissected alive to, to being tossed into fire as a sacrifice to R'Hllor.

[danm_999]

Ser Wun Wun, on 20 November 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Your point about the time constraints is valid, I worry about that myself.  But I disagree with the notion that they are just not each others type.  For one, I don't think it's fair to say Dany has a preference for flamboyant, violent alphas like a lot of people do.  Every man she has met in Qarth and Slaver's Bay has been flamboyant.  Daario just seems to have been the most handsome/dashing among that flock of peacocks, and he is the only man she has every really chosen to take as a lover.  Aside from him, her pickings were pretty slim wouldn't you say?  I mean Jorah...ugh.  Jorah is an ugly old man with hair in all the wrong places, so it's not surprising she was not attracted to him.

Dany has never actually come across anyone her own age who is like Jon (Barristan is kind of similar I guess.  A good fighter who is a little stoic and reserved, but he is just too old for Dany to ever think about sexually).  I know some people might say "what about Quentyn?", but aside from both of them maybe having plain looks (Jon might actually be handsome, the books aren't clear) they have little else in common.  Jon is a warrior, a powerful warg and natural leader (all with the stigma of being a bastard hanging over his head).  Quentyn was no warrior, nor even the "alpha" of his own little group of friends.  It's just not an apt comparison imo (I know you didn't bring him up, but I'm preempting it before someone else does).

Well, Hizdahr wasn't particularly flamboyant, and she even thinks Hizdahr is comely once he shaves his side afros, but he doesn't seem to attract her. Maybe because she doesn't like what he represents in terms of Meereenese slavery, but then she has some big moral problems with Daario and his sellsword conscience (monster is the word she uses a few times), and with Khal Drogo's allowance of rape and murder in his khalasar, but seems attracted to them all the same.

So when she's constantly rejecting men of a type, all along the spectrum of attractiveness (from Hizdahr, to Quentyn down to Mormont) I think we've established she might not like the type. Especially since there are some great reasons for her not to like guys like Drogo and Daario, but does so anyway.

Ser Wun Wun, on 20 November 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Anyway, as far as Jon liking her...I think Dany has plenty in common with those women you listed.  Ygritte, Arya and Dany are all strong, willful women with awful tempers (Val might be like that too, but we haven't got to see it yet).  They are all wild, with the "wolf's blood" in them (or dragon's blood in Dany's case, as she so often reminds us).  And Dany leads an army, has dragons, has conquered cities....she is no Sansa.

I don't think Daenerys is wild like Arya or Ygritte though. She is more like Sansa, more composed and more traditionally feminine. Both groups of women have significant strength, but it manifests itself differently, and I think Jon is too poisoned by some of the crap he's had to deal with regarding traditional southron ladies in his short life (Catelyn, Queen Selyse) to go for a type who has her titles announced loudly and talks about dragon blood. Daenerys will have her ducklings, and talk about how she's just a young girl ignorant in the ways of "blank" and Jon will likely form a first impression of her as another soft southroner.

Arya will call you stupid and hit you, and Ygritte will tell you that you know nothing and threaten to geld you, and Jon really starts developing a crush on Val when he sees she alone has found Tormund and brought him back to the Wall, something which all his rangers failed to do. Daenerys will not do this.

Ser Wun Wun, on 20 November 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Add all this to the fact that she is the most beautiful woman in the world, and Jon is in fact a 17 year old male and I'd say yeah....it's safe to say he will be attracted to her.

I'm skeptical. Jon doesn't seem that befuddled by beauty.

When he first sees Cersei, he thinks she's beautiful, but he also thinks that he can see through her smile. With Val, it's only really when she brings Tormund does Jon significantly warm up to her. And when another beautiful woman, Melisandre, flirts pretty eggregiously with him, he's not into it. He, like Davos, is too skeptical of her to sleep with her, even though she hasn't really done anything evil at this point to him, only suspects she will.

Edited by danm_999, 21 November 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Your wrong about his attraction to Val...he really really REALLY was thinking over Stannis's offer.

[danm_999]

Winds of Winter blow cold, on 21 November 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

Your wrong about his attraction to Val...he really really REALLY was thinking over Stannis's offer.

Not because of Val, because he wanted Winterfell, and wanted a son.

In fact, he thinks

Quote

It seemed an easy choice when he thought of it in those terms . . . though if Ygritte had still been alive, it might have been even easier. Val was a stranger to him. She was not hard on the eyes, certainly, and she had been sister to Mance Rayder’s queen, but still . . .

He'd rather have pug nosed, crooked teethed Ygritte, than Val, the buxom blonde with a traditional beauty like Cersei or Daenerys.

[ARYa_Nym]

I thought it was too cliche at first but I don't think it'll be lazy like HP. I HATED how she paired off all the main characters together.

I think that death and tragedy will come between them ultimately so it will be different.

I think Arya and Dany do have similarities. I also think it was significant when Dany was compared to Queen Nymeria in an SSM. I think Arya would love her if not for the Usurper's Dogs/Ned Stark problem.

[Florina Stark]

Jon digs ladies that he's gotten to know. Its something more internal about them that gets his smallclothes tight. Ygritte's personality was what he really loved. The important part of that line is: Val was a stranger to him.

So yeah. He thinks shes pretty good looking but he really doesnt know her so he feels little real attraction. If Dany walked up to him, Jon wouldnt be all "dfhdhffdjff hot chick!" he'd be like "Hmmm...hello *stoic face*" She would have to win him another way entirely. If GRRM could write that in a very believable way in the next book, then maybe i could get on the Jon/Dany ship. But until then, nyet.

As for Dany's side, i do not believe she would be impressed with Jon physically at all. She may be kinda cool with his stoic nature because Drogo was rather stoic in a lot of ways and Dany fell in love with him. But Drogo opened up to Dany once the language barrier was broken and she understood him better. Jon would have to open up to her, i think, for her to fall for him.

If this pairing is even gonna be a thing, GRRM has his work cut out for him.

[Éadaoin]

ARYa_Nym, on 21 November 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

I think Arya and Dany do have similarities. I also think it was significant when Dany was compared to Queen Nymeria in an SSM. I think Arya would love her if not for the Usurper's Dogs/Ned Stark problem.

I agree. I wish Dany and Arya could meet and put their families' problems behind them.

[danm_999]

Florina Stark, on 21 November 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

She would have to win him another way entirely. If GRRM could write that in a very believable way in the next book, then maybe i could get on the Jon/Dany ship. But until then, nyet.

Yes, this is my big problem. It looks like we won't get much time for Jon/Dany to know each other, and first impressions and shallow understandings of each other will matter, and I just don't believe Jon and Dany will click there.

They may not even click if they had three or four books, but I can't claim to see all ends on that.

[Harald Hard-Ruler]

One thing I really liked about AFFC and ADWD was the Jon/Samwell chapter. Two separate chapters where we see the same event from 2 different POVs. I'd love to see Jon and Dany meeting from each of their own perspectives. It would be really interesting to see what they think of each other.