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The Dagger and the Coin - SPOILER THREAD


RedEyedGhost

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Said it a couple times, but I'll repeat here again. Where the current trend is to take tropes and subvert them, Abraham seems to take old tropes, and keep true to them as much as he can, while trying to show what made them fresh in the first place. Take Geder.

While most fantasy tyrants are either all Evil(per the trope), or subverted into a guy with good intent who keeps doing evil things for the "right" reasons. Geder is a guy who wants to do good, but really is a shithead with a temper.

That's my take anyway.

I can agree with that. The way I have viewed it is that we have some familiar storylines but with characters who have a few more layers to them. Master Kit as the wise old man and Marcus as the reluctant hero on a quest for a magic sword seems standard, but there is definitely more of a "Martinesque" feel to the tone and depth of characters.

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I can agree with that. The way I have viewed it is that we have some familiar storylines but with characters who have a few more layers to them. Master Kit as the wise old man and Marcus as the reluctant hero on a quest for a magic sword seems standard, but there is definitely more of a "Martinesque" feel to the tone and depth of characters.

When the fuck is DA going to stop getting 'Martinesque' comparisons? The man's got his own voice, and it's pretty goddamn good. I realize it's going to happen because of his roots, but man, that shit's got to get annoying.

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When the fuck is DA going to stop getting 'Martinesque' comparisons? The man's got his own voice, and it's pretty goddamn good. I realize it's going to happen because of his roots, but man, that shit's got to get annoying.

I see what you're saying, but at the same time the comparison might help to encourage sales.

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When the fuck is DA going to stop getting 'Martinesque' comparisons? The man's got his own voice, and it's pretty goddamn good. I realize it's going to happen because of his roots, but man, that shit's got to get annoying.

Nobody's he saying that he doesn't have his own voice, just that it reminds them of GRRM's books. It's a compliment - we get threads here all the time from people saying, "I read the books - now what do I read that's like that?".

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Nobody's he saying that he doesn't have his own voice, just that it reminds them of GRRM's books. It's a compliment - we get threads here all the time from people saying, "I read the books - now what do I read that's like that?".

And they get pointed to The Long Price and go - what the...??? The two are nothing like each other, in style or plot scope or characterisation. I love them both, but they're very different, and it's really time people stopped comparing them.

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And they get pointed to The Long Price and go - what the...??? The two are nothing like each other, in style or plot scope or characterisation. I love them both, but they're very different, and it's really time people stopped comparing them.

They're both character-based political fantasy in which the magic, while key, is to start with kept relatively subtle in use. They're not completely similar no but they bear some of the same hallmarks.

I mean I wouldn't rec one to a fan of the other without also pointing out the differences, but they're definitely comparable.

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They're both character-based political fantasy in which the magic, while key, is to start with kept relatively subtle in use. They're not completely similar no but they bear some of the same hallmarks. I mean I wouldn't rec one to a fan of the other without also pointing out the differences, but they're definitely comparable.

That's a fairly broad summary which covers a sizeable minority of the genre. I don't disagree with you in principle, it's just that to me it's the differences which jump out, not the similarities. Martin is a writer who thinks big - in characters [1], in plot, the whole sprawling scale of the books. Abraham writes much more intimately, and <cough> with a clearer idea of where he's going and how he's going to get there.

[1] And yes, I include Tyrion as a big character :-)

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I would have to disagree. I find only a very few authors can successfully "do" epic, but low-magic um...speculative fiction, for lack of a better term.

Dorothy Dunnett

GRRM

Daniel Abraham

Having a hard time buying the 'low magic' card. Fucking DA's world in the long price was held together by 'magic'. Most of the conflict derived from 'magic'. People walked around all day long talking to 'magic' beings. Low magic my ass. Just because they weren't calling on the fucking one power, or warrens doesn't mean it wasn't a major player in the books. That's a poor definition of his work if you ask me.

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Dunnett is speculative fiction now? Wtf?

And you want talk about weird comparisons (which we are) I don't get how people immediately jump to Bakker when people say they liked ASOIAF. Talk about totally different animals.

To not derail started The Dragons Path and I really don't see the Martin comparisons, unless its the "name of the chapter is the pov" thing, which I'm pretty sure was around before GoT.

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Having a hard time buying the 'low magic' card. Fucking DA's world in the long price was held together by 'magic'. Most of the conflict derived from 'magic'. People walked around all day long talking to 'magic' beings. Low magic my ass. Just because they weren't calling on the fucking one power, or warrens doesn't mean it wasn't a major player in the books. That's a poor definition of his work if you ask me.

Of course it's a major player. It's a major player in aSoIaF too. In Long Price it's the absolute underpinning of the whole story but it's actual use is kept relatively minor

till the later stages of the series.

When people say 'low magic' they mean in comparison to your regular epic fantasy where spells and wizards and elves saturate every corner of every land.

I don't get how people immediately jump to Bakker when people say they liked ASOIAF.

Or Malazan. That used to happen all. the. time. on another board I use. Talk about baffling.

But now Mistborn is the flavour of the day there and gets crammed in to every topic going instead.

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Of course it's a major player. It's a major player in aSoIaF too. In Long Price it's the absolute underpinning of the whole story but it's actual use is kept relatively minor

till the later stages of the series.

When people say 'low magic' they mean in comparison to your regular epic fantasy where spells and wizards and elves saturate every corner of every land. Or Malazan. That used to happen all. the. time. on another board I use. Talk about baffling. But now Mistborn is the flavour of the day there and gets crammed in to every topic going instead.

None of those make any sense either. And I like al three that were brought up.

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When people say 'low magic' they mean in comparison to your regular epic fantasy where spells and wizards and elves saturate every corner of every land.

Except of course, in the books this tread is about.. you know, the ones with around a baker's dozen worth of races.

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  • 1 month later...

After finishing ADWD, I decided to give this a try. Honestly, I was just reading thinking it won't be good enough, just because they used a GRRM blurb (I'm weird like that hard to explain). But slowly the book grasped me and now I'm thinking about going bck to reading the book instead of playing videogames! I just read the chapter where Marcus kills Opal and it just occured to me Kit is the guy running away from priests in the prologue! Damn how did I miss it. I swear there was some scene before where it was hinted, he told someone something about a lie, hinting at it but damn I can't find it now...

I really love the %40 I read so far, I hope it keeps the quality and I hear 2nd book is even better. I will make sure at least 1 person other than me read this book and spread the word. Only thing that's bothering me is I'm playing Diablo 3 lately and Cithrin is Leah in my mind...she is my favourite character in the book, ı wish I managed to imagine a unique face for her but no...she just looks like Leah to me :S

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  • 1 month later...

Book three, The Tyrant's Law, will be published in May 2013. Here is the first plot synopsis:

The great war cannot be stopped.

The tyrant Geder Palliako begins a conquest aimed at bringing peace to the world, though his resources are stretched too thin. When things go poorly, he finds a convenient target among the thirteen races and sparks a genocide.

Clara Kalliam, freed by having fallen from grace, remakes herself as a "loyal traitor" and starts building an underground resistance movement that seeks to undermine Geder through those closest to him.

Cithrin bel Sarcour is apprenticing in a city that's taken over by Antea, and uses her status as Geder's one-time lover to cover up an underground railroad smuggling refugees to safety.

And Marcus Wester and Master Kit race against time and Geder Palliako's soldiers in an attempt to awaken a force that could change the fate of the world.

http://www.amazon.com/Tyrants-Law-Dagger-Coin/dp/0316080705/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344517981&sr=1-2&keywords=tyrant%27s+law

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