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Harry Potter and The Methods of Rationality


afterroots

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I'm guessing that convincing anyone to read Harry Potter fan fiction is going to be one hell of a hard sell. If it wasn't absolutely brilliant and one of the best pieces of writing i've read so far this year I wouldn't have even tried. Luckily a lot of people (no, really, there's even been a readers meet-up) have been praising the work already so I can just quote them!

Oh, and for what it's worth, I first found out about this when David Brin recommended it.

The basic idea is that Harry Potter’s mother’s sister, instead of marrying an abusive slob, married a professor of biochemistry at Oxford University, so when he gets adopted after his biological parents, Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres is brought up in a very loving family, surrounded by books on science and SF novels, and becomes a child prodigy in science before ever learning about magic. As a result, he sets about actually *analysing* how magic works, applying the scientific method to figuring out what’s *really* going on.

The results of someone able to actually *think* walking through this world that has no real logic to it and pulling at the loose ends lead to some remarkably funny moments, like when Harry makes the Sorting Hat become unexpectedly sapient by wondering about it, or his total destruction of the rules of Quidditch, but what makes the book work is the fact that it gets this humour from *actually taking the world in which it’s set, and its consequences, seriously* – and as a result it really does feel like the stakes in the story are high.

Link

Here's a little sample of rational Harry talking on quidditch

“So let me get this straight,” Harry said as it seemed that Ron’s explanation (with associated hand gestures) was winding down. “Catching the Snitch is worth one hundred and fifty points?”

“Yeah -”

“How many ten-point goals does one side usually score not counting the Snitch?”

“Um, maybe fifteen or twenty in professional games -”

“That’s just wrong. That violates every possible rule of game design. Look, the rest of this game sounds like it might make sense, sort of, for a sport I mean, but you’re basically saying that catching the Snitch overwhelms almost any ordinary point spread. The two Seekers are up there flying around looking for the Snitch and usually not interacting with anyone else, spotting the Snitch first is going to be mostly luck -”

“It’s not luck!” protested Ron. “You’ve got to keep your eyes moving in the right pattern -”

“That’s not interactive, there’s no back-and-forth with the other player and how much fun is it to watch someone incredibly good at moving their eyes? And then whichever Seeker gets lucky swoops in and grabs the Snitch and makes everyone else’s work moot. It’s like someone took a real game and grafted on this pointless extra position just so that you could be the Most Important Player without needing to really get involved or learn the rest of it. Who was the first Seeker, the King’s idiot son who wanted to play Quidditch but couldn’t understand the rules?” Actually, now that Harry thought about it, that seemed like a surprisingly good hypothesis. Put him on a broomstick and tell him to catch the shiny thing…

Ron’s face pulled into a scowl. “If you don’t like Quidditch, you don’t have to make fun of it!”

“If you can’t criticize, you can’t optimize. I’m suggesting how to improve the game. And it’s very simple. Get rid of the Snitch.”

All the chapters released so far can be read in pdf here and new chapters are posted here as released.

I can honestly say that i'm more emotionally invested in this work than I ever was in the original, that the characters are far better realised and more interesting than the original, the plot is far more complex and that i've learned more about rationality through this than the whole of Bakker's Second Apocalypse.

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Very interesting premise, especially for an admitted fan of Potter like my self. But so far I'm seeing the easy arguments. Hell, I brought up the Quidditch questioning on this forum in a topic this year, and I guarantee im not the first.

So I foresee a lot of us Potter fans looking into it for novelty, but how exactly are Second Apocalypse fans going to love it? I guess I missed that point.

But thinks for the links, I shall def. watch out for it.

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Seems worth a go, though I wouldn't dismiss Bakker out of hand. I think more than rationality, Bakker's original PON was about the conditioning of a person by environment and the way our psychology works against our seeking for truth.

That said, this looks awesome.

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Very interesting premise, especially for an admitted fan of Potter like my self. But so far I'm seeing the easy arguments. Hell, I brought up the Quidditch questioning on this forum in a topic this year, and I guarantee im not the first.

So I foresee a lot of us Potter fans looking into it for novelty, but how exactly are Second Apocalypse fans going to love it? I guess I missed that point.

But thinks for the links, I shall def. watch out for it.

The stories main focus isn't at all to poke fun at Rowling, sorry if i gave off that impression.

The Second Apocalypse mention(which I forgot to explain!) is due to the focus on and exploration of rationalism throughout the story. This Harry also has many similarities to Kellhus (a lot of differences though as well). I don't want to spoil anything so i'll just mention that there's is an even more Khellus like character introduced as well. The author runs a site dedicated to the study and teaching of rationalism so he seems to have a good grasp of writing a realistic rationalist.

Seems worth a go, though I wouldn't dismiss Bakker out of hand. I think more than rationality, Bakker's original PON was about the conditioning of a person by environment and the way our psychology works against our seeking for truth.

That said, this looks awesome.

This does explore similar idea's as well, though not in as much depth as The Second Apocalypse (so far, anyway). Not that I was trying to sell Bakker short, he's my favourite fantasy writer at the moment.

Harry sounds more like Kellus than Harry.

This Harry is a lot more like Kellhus than 'Harry'.

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Its like PON in the way that its rather condescending and destroys one's love of the fantasy genre?

I can't imagine how a single series could destroy love of the genre. PON twisted my way of thinking and at times I found it incredibly depressing, but I can still go back to Tolkien or even some of my old D&D novels and enjoy them.

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I can't imagine how a single series could destroy love of the genre. PON twisted my way of thinking and at times I found it incredibly depressing, but I can still go back to Tolkien or even some of my old D&D novels and enjoy them.

Sorry for the unclearness, I mean more in a Goodkindesque "God, No wonder Fantasy as a reputation for being self indulgent, escapist, adolescent trash sometimes" sort of way. TDTCB made me very depressed at moments too - mostly that I didn't have something better to read at hand.

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Sorry for the unclearness, I mean more in a Goodkindesque "God, No wonder Fantasy as a reputation for being self indulgent, escapist, adolescent trash sometimes" sort of way. TDTCB made me very depressed at moments too - mostly that I didn't have something better to read at hand.

Heh, admittedly I'm biased as I loved the series - it blew my mind to Hell and back. But then I fall asleep reading books others hold in high regard.

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Datepalm, I retract my warning against reading Name of the Wind. Go ahead, read it. For the atrocities you uttered in this thread.

Some corruption begs not the cloth, but the knife.

Sin is sin.

I've come to the conclusion that every single thing you and I see differently on could be resolved if we agreed somehow on Bakker. Alas, I don't think its going to happen. :P

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read this a year or so ago. It works for a while. Then it just sort of tries too hard, gets tiring and repetitive and you realize that part of what makes Harry such a solid hero is that he's relatively imperfect. And turning Harry into a perfect ubermensch makes him perfectly boring.

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Methods of Rationality starts out as a Harry Potter parody with random lectures on philosophy and science thrown in. Sort of Kellhus in Hogwarts as written by Neal Stephenson. With a bit of Ender's Game thrown in. However, it eventually turns into a great story in its own right. It's not perfect, sure, but I actually care about the plot and the characters and I want to know how the (many, many) mysteries get resolved.

You just have to accept half the characters being super geniuses (which, I admit, takes a bit of suspension of disbelief).

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Sorry for the unclearness, I mean more in a Goodkindesque "God, No wonder Fantasy as a reputation for being self indulgent, escapist, adolescent trash sometimes" sort of way. TDTCB made me very depressed at moments too - mostly that I didn't have something better to read at hand.

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16

:fencing:

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