The Wise Man's Fear IV (SPOILERS)

[Who's on Third]

Either Kvothe has a high opinion of the local priest or he doesn't. Either Kvothe is going to knowingly inform Bast of the goings-on in the village or Bast is going to do it for Kvothe. Don't make them take turns. Because when I read that, I'm like, hunh, a character's gone from being remarkably well informed/savvy with local gossip to completely obtuse in one chapter.

I haven't investigated it, but perhaps it is Kote who likes the local priest, and Kvothe who has a problem with him? I know that there is a serious contrast between Kote and Kvothe, and who they are as a person as a result of who they see themselves as... Are we just looking at an intentional difference between the two?

[dcon]

I haven't investigated it, but perhaps it is Kote who likes the local priest, and Kvothe who has a problem with him? I know that there is a serious contrast between Kote and Kvothe, and who they are as a person as a result of who they see themselves as... Are we just looking at an intentional difference between the two?

I like that a lot. As someone pointed out in another thread, he switches between "Kote" Kvothe" and the "innkeeper" within the space of a few paragraphs at times so maybe there is something to that.

We may be giving Rothfuss too much credit, though.

[AverageGuy]

Any speculation on Denna's repeated mention of the magic of writing something down, and if you read it, it becomes true for you?

The short answer's yes. Other people have pointed out more times the Yllish braids have been mentioned with Denna-- when they break into the Maer's garden, when Denna first plays her song for Kvothe, when they fight after returning to Imre during the picnic. We're not sure about what it means. I've seen nothing to prove it isn't just wishful thinking on Denna's part, but the amount of time Rothfuss has spent on it may mean there's more there.

If he had already left, there are two problems with this thesis. First it appears Elodin only started teaching Naming again while Kvothe was at the university. Second how does he hear stories about Kvothe, the way it's presented it sounds like Chronicler all bright eyed and bushy tailed hearing stories about the person whose name had become both curse and praise at the university.

Elodin could've taught Chronicler before his mental break. Chronicler attends the University, at least reaches Re'lar after learning the name of iron, eventually leaves the University, then returns years after writing Draccus and hears stories about Kvothe. It's a screwy timeline, mostly because of the way "first stories I heard about you" implies his youth, but it's not necessarily contradictory.

And the duke thing... Maybe Wilem just forgot that Kvothe already knew.

It's not that Wilem forgot, it's that Kvothe did.

You are right that Pater=Father and Abbe=Abbot. Abbots and Fathers are two different things though, abbots are generally heads of communities of monks, whereas priests are just priests.

Monks sometimes do become priests (or deacons). An old friend of mine's father had been both before he left the priesthood. And the name "abbot" is related to "abba," father (bilabial sounds, hurray for egoism, etc.), which Rothfuss may have known.

[Angeleyes]

We may be giving Rothfuss too much credit, though.

The man was once part of my brotherhood of Chemical Engineers. AND he understands poetry and writing. We cannot give him enough credit. :P

Of course, I may be biased. ;)

[dcon]

The man was once part of my brotherhood of Chemical Engineers. AND he understands poetry and writing. We cannot give him enough credit. :P

Of course, I may be biased. ;)

haha good enough for me then

[Spaceman Hobbes]

Just thought I'd pop in here to comment on the screwy chronicler timeline. We know that Chronicler attended the university and knows the name of Iron. We also know that he's famous for writing a book about Draccus, and has a lot of experience travelling(well being robbed at least.) If we think back to when Elodin encourages Kvothe to take a term off, we're told that it's a pretty common occurrence. What if the Chronicler did the same thing. He decides to travel, eventually studies and writes an excellent book on Draccus(which is immediately put into the archives), and then decides that he wants to travel more. So he spend the next few years or so on the road. During this time Kvothe attends the University and has his adventures and gets expelled. Then Chronicler gets bored, goes back to the University which is still buzzing with gossip about Kvothe. So he decides to track him down, setting up our books.

[Who's on Third]

The short answer's yes.

Thanks for the link.

[Rhaegar's Son]

Just thought I'd pop in here to comment on the screwy chronicler timeline. We know that Chronicler attended the university and knows the name of Iron. We also know that he's famous for writing a book about Draccus, and has a lot of experience travelling(well being robbed at least.) If we think back to when Elodin encourages Kvothe to take a term off, we're told that it's a pretty common occurrence. What if the Chronicler did the same thing. He decides to travel, eventually studies and writes an excellent book on Draccus(which is immediately put into the archives), and then decides that he wants to travel more. So he spend the next few years or so on the road. During this time Kvothe attends the University and has his adventures and gets expelled. Then Chronicler gets bored, goes back to the University which is still buzzing with gossip about Kvothe. So he decides to track him down, setting up our books.

I had also thought along these lines, mostly because of the point where Kvothe and Chronicler are chatting and Kvothe says it's too bad they were never at the U together. The line could certainly imply that Kvothe came between the two longer stints of C's education.

However, I still favor C being a writer/traveller and then deciding to attend the U later in life. I really don't see what is wrong with this idea. Simply because we see mostly young people there?

[thistlepong]

Updated list:

numbered items are specific (chapters present or to come)

bulleted items are broad (need verification, apologies to the posters so poached)

Errata

1. Stapes's ring:
   
   Stapes gives Kvothe a silver ring. Kvothe returns a gold ring. Howl!

   
   

2. The period between Hallowfell and the murder of Kvothe's parents.
   
   Essentially, there's missing time. They leave Abenthy in Hallowfell in the spring, months pass, the troupe is murdered, Kvothe spends the summer in the woods and ends up in Tarbean in the fall. Between four months and a year are missing or inserted.

   
   

3. The Mating Habits of the Common Draccus
   
   Kvothe reads it in his first term at University. Chronicler hears about Kvothe's trial when he comes to the university:
   
   
   NotWc7: He says only, "I heard about it at the university."
   
   
   WMFc46: He says, "But that's the first story I ever heard about you when I came to the University."

   
   

4. Sim, Son of a Duke
   
   NotWc37 – Sovoy: “Simmon’s father is a paper duke bowing to a tin king in Atur.”
   
   
   WMFc39 – Wil: “Sim’s father holds a duchy in Atur.” cue
   Kvothe’s
   surprise

   
   

5. Auri doesn't talk during meals
   
   Auri apparently doesn't talk during meals in WMF. Except she does it all the time in NOTW.

   
   

6. The Priest keeps changing his name
   
   The priest is Pater Leodin, Leoden, Abbe Grimes. Apparently Kvothe think's he's a good guy in one part of the novel and then doesn't get on with him in another part of the novel.

   
   

7. Skarpi calls Kvothe by name
   
   NotWc28
   "You should run, Kvothe."

   
   

• The characters keep changing their names
  
  There are a bunch of random widows floating around, having affairs with the Mayor or Bast or someone else. The names of the widows keep changing the characteristics are similar but not identical. Half the time Kvothe has the scoop on the local gossip, the other half of the time it's Bast. NOTW her name is Widow Sage and she has a daughter called Katie. In WMF the Katie, Bast is referring to is called Katie Miller and the Widow is Widow Creel.

  
  

• Kvothe and Bast flipflop
  
  Either Kvothe is going to knowingly inform Bast of the goings-on in the village or Bast is going to do it for Kvothe. Don't make them take turns. Because when I read that, I'm like, hunh, a character's gone from being remarkably well informed/savvy with local gossip to completely obtuse in one chapter.

  
  

[Spaceman Hobbes]

I had also thought along these lines, mostly because of the point where Kvothe and Chronicler are chatting and Kvothe says it's too bad they were never at the U together. The line could certainly imply that Kvothe came between the two longer stints of C's education.

However, I still favor C being a writer/traveller and then deciding to attend the U later in life. I really don't see what is wrong with this idea. Simply because we see mostly young people there?

Another thing to keep in mind is that Kvothe and Elodin are the exception to the rule age wise. Kvothe says himself that he was expelled at a younger age than most students are admitted. The Chronicler attending later in life is also very plausible IMHO. After all Kvothe is 17 or 18(I think) at the end of WMF. He's 25-26 when he tells Chronicler his story. He's been at Waystone for a little over a year I think(someone please correct my if any of this is wrong). That gives him a good five years to get expelled, kill a king and start a war. Chronicler could have studied exclusively after Kvothe, or Kvothe study in between Chroniclers stay. I think either is a perfectly reasonable explanation.

[thistlepong]

Dune, the Waystone's been there for about a year. Whatever happened, happened less than 2 years ago. Abenthy was about 20 when he entered the University. So yah, Kvothe has a good 2 years to get expelled and another three to send the world into chaos.

Elodin waggles his fingers alot for no apparent reason which most people take as a sign he is crazy. We now have reason to believe he is using Ademic hand speach at all of those junctures.

Buh :shocked: That was a great post, tying together things we'd mentioned and things we hadn't. Thanks. Elodin's been mentoring Fela for awhile, and only promotes her to Re'lar when she names her ring. He's also credulous toward Kvothe's tale of Felurian.

Do we have any reason to believe Taborlin the Great stories or any older, or even as old, as those about Oren Velciter?

[Spaceman Hobbes]

Maybe Elodin is able to judge someone's potential for waking their sleeping mind. He could tell Fela was close and decided to mentor her. Or maybe he just likes spending time with beautiful women.

I don't recall Taborlin ever really being set in a time frame with any of the other legends, but it's been about a month now since I finished WMF. Time for a reread.

[ShanRawr]

Elodin would have been locked up in Hotel Taborlin about a year before Kvothe's parents were murdered.

Kvothe's father had been working on the song for about two years before they were killed.

Now if you give Elodin some time to actually earn his stay in the WTF copper room...

The timelines could be somewhat parallel. Elodin gets himself involved in something that lands his ass in the rookery at roughly the same time Kvothe's father decides it would be an awesome idea to sing a song about Lanre.

[Ski the Swift]

How old is Elodin? I picture him as being very young.

[Alytha]

Am I the only one who hopes that the "Natelia Lackless is Kvothe's mother" thing is a red herring? It would be far too convenient and stereotypical. Although we already know that it's all going to end in tears, I want a protagonist who is not secretly a noble for once ;)

[Arya]

I have a pet theory that Ambrose is the Penitent King, and that he got the position by using Kvothe's name to compel Our Humble Narrator into killing the previous king so that Ambrose could take the throne. It is my suspicion that Kvothe then put his name into the thrice-locked box in order to escape from Ambrose's control, and that this is why he's lost all his mojo. Also would explain why book one's dustjacket says that the third meaning of his Adem name, "the broken tree," would turn out to be prophetic. (In the present time, Kote is just a broken shell of a man waiting to die, while Kvothe is a thrice-locked wooden box.)

I also noticed someone else mentioned they thought Bast might be Kvothe's and Felurian's son-- I thought so too. It explains why Bast is both fey and also able to use human magics (Kvothe says that fey magic is totally different from human magic), and explains his lusty nature, and why he seems to love Kvothe as a father rather than as a tutor.

Just some thoughts!

[Zizoz]

Bast being Kvothe's son has been suggested a few times. It's been pointed out that he's introduced as the "son of Remmen", so you'd need an explanation for that, at least.

[Slick Mongoose]

7.Skarpi calls Kvothe by name

NotWc28 "You should run, Kvothe."

Come off it, that's clearly deliberate.

[Gaston de Foix]

Come off it, that's clearly deliberate.

I doubt it. Why would there be such a deliberate error? There are A LOT of clues to Bredon=Master Ash. There are a lot of clues to Netalia Lackless being Kvothe' mother. There are exactly two references to Skarpi.

I mean I understand the theories that have floated around that Skarpi=Amyr. But there's nothing to suggest the Amyr have anything to do with storytelling, and if this (http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Amyr.jpg) is any indication they don't seem like the kind of people to allow themselves to be kicked around. And Kvothe himself doesn't observe anything strange about Skarpi knowing his name in NOTW. So posit that we are reading Chapter 42 of TDS

"after slaying the Humungous Hungry Hippopatamus, I rounded around around a rill, Caesura in hand. There sitting on a stone was Skarpi. Kvothe he called, recognising me despite the fact I was no longer the street boy from Tarbean? Cold fingers went down my spine, how did he know my name? I never told him back in Tarbean...10 years ago.

doesn't quite work does it?

[Who's on Third]

I doubt it. Why would there be such a deliberate error? There are A LOT of clues to Bredon=Master Ash. There are a lot of clues to Netalia Lackless being Kvothe' mother. There are exactly two references to Skarpi.

Someone floated the theory earlier that Skarpi could be Sceop from Kvothe's story (Chapter 37, elderly story teller). In any case, I think that Skarpi is far more than he seems.

Kvothe: "Do you know many stories?"

Skarpi: "I only know one story. But oftentimes small pieces seem to be stories themselves....It's growing all around us. In the manor houses of the Cealdim and in the workshops of the Cealdar, over the Stormwal in the great sand sea. In the low stone houses of the Adem, full of silent conversation. And sometimes.....Sometimes the story is growing in squalid backstreet bars, Dockside in Tarbean." How would he know Kvothe was important?

"His bright eyes looked deep into me, as if I were a book that he could read." This is similar to his experience with Elodin. I suspect Skarpi is at the very least a Namer.

He also knew the name of Erlus, who seemed pretty shocked by the knowledge. I assumed at the time he knew him from a previous encounter, but some things Erlus says seem to cut against my assumption. ("Anthony, we seem to have found a courteous heretic, how strange and wonderful!")

I don't think Skarpi knowing Kvothe's name was a mistake.