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[BOOK & TV SPOILERS] What was left out and what was left in.


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#21 Dremora

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 12:16 PM

Glad I'm not the only one who thought it seemed more like rape than in the book.

#22 reiver

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 12:20 PM

Tyrion's 'banquet' seemed odd to me, but it does establish his proclivities from jump. The drawback is that, since it's not made clear that they're whores (combined with Peter's good looks,) it undermines his 'ugly dwarf who thinks he has to pay for sex' hangup.

It was mentioned that it was a whorehouse when Jaime came in. Something along the lines of "do you not know what a closed door in a brothel means?". I agree it didn't come across well and really did nothing more than establish his proclivities with none of the motivation or self-loathing that goes along with it. It's a really poor scene and i don't get why it was added let alone when.

#23 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 12:21 PM

Tyrion's 'banquet' seemed odd to me, but it does establish his proclivities from jump. The drawback is that, since it's not made clear that they're whores (combined with Peter's good looks,) it undermines his 'ugly dwarf who thinks he has to pay for sex' hangup.

Unless one thinks that it's common to sleep with normal girls in whorehouses they did make it perfectly clear.

#24 Xenophon

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 12:45 PM

It was mentioned that it was a whorehouse when Jaime came in. Something along the lines of "do you not know what a closed door in a brothel means?". I agree it didn't come across well and really did nothing more than establish his proclivities with none of the motivation or self-loathing that goes along with it. It's a really poor scene and i don't get why it was added let alone when.


Yes, his one-liner that being the Queen's brother was his greatest accomplishment was a much better introduction to the character than that whorehouse scene.

#25 russjass

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 12:48 PM

Okay, so I thought it was good, well done within the scope of what they could do. We are always going to miss the internal dialogue.

Couple of things felt off, and one I may be completely mistaken about. Maester Luwin and Catelyn seem to have changed places when discussing Ned going south. In the book I remember (and this is what I may be wrong about) Maester Luwin was taking the "There must be a Stark in Winterfell" line, while Catelyn was urging him to go sout first to gain advantage for himself and a better place for her children in the future, and after Lyssas letter to discover what the Lannisters were up to, although mainly to prevent any harm to her children. I felt that this established what a hard faced bitch she could be when it came to protecting the kids, and led into what she was willing to do later. Seemed more like a scared woman this way.

The "Things I do for love" scene was good, but didnt feel quite right. Jaime seemed happy to throw Bran off, like it was nothing. Whereas in the book he says it with revulsion when he looks at Cersei, setting up the love/hate relationship we now know it really is, and also paving the way for the character development we see in book three. I realise that this is easier to show in a book than on TV, but still, could have been better.

Other than that, agree with a lot of what has already been said, tyrions whores and danys rape, change the tone slightly. There is no real showing yet of what Tyrion really is.

#26 cybroleach

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 12:58 PM

Well I watched it last night with two friends from work, one has read the books and enjoyed it but felt there wasn't enough 'hook' elements in the episode to draw in a new audience epically with so much character jumping, my other friend was new to the series and found alot of it boring, he did find it shocking with the Bran ending. I personally felt HBO messed up with a 1hr premier rather than going for a 2hr shot to really get it off to a bang, and had to agree about the slow pacing. Also the one change I really didn't care for is Will's escape from the WW, it just lets him go as he's cryin on his knees vs the fact that Gared rode away like a bat outta hell to escape. Still very impressive though
.

#27 cybroleach

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 12:59 PM

double post

Edited by cybroleach, 18 April 2011 - 12:59 PM.


#28 Slyfinger

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 01:31 PM

One nitpick.


When they come across the direwolves and Jon doesn't tell Theon, "I think not, Greyjoy. This one is mine." when he finds Ghost.


Other than that, awesomeness.

#29 Russ Snow

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 01:44 PM

I thought it was good! But one thing I didn't like was the the fact the entire dothroki wedding and stuff took place beside the ocean... Which they called poison water, they hate the ocean, makes no since why they wld be by it.

#30 Xenophon

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:03 PM

I thought it was good! But one thing I didn't like was the the fact the entire dothroki wedding and stuff took place beside the ocean... Which they called poison water, they hate the ocean, makes no since why they wld be by it.


Yeah, I wondered about that too. I'm guessing they did it so they could point the camera out to sea to hide the fact that there were only around 50 people at the wedding.

#31 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:07 PM

Yeah, I wondered about that too. I'm guessing they did it so they could point the camera out to sea to hide the fact that there were only around 50 people at the wedding.

One part of it was that they wanted a visually beautiful setting and they felt this did the trick better than a grassy plain. As for explanations, the part of the Dothraki not even wanting to go near the sea is unimportant to the plot. Such detailed criticism will pick the entire show apart.

#32 reiver

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:29 PM

I had thought they would shoot the whole wedding at night. It masks the numbers involved better, the dancing wouldn't have looked so... wrong against bonfires and nothing says fierce warrior culture like the darkness and fire.

#33 alguien

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:42 PM

One nitpick.


When they come across the direwolves and Jon doesn't tell Theon, "I think not, Greyjoy. This one is mine." when he finds Ghost.


I was hoping for that line too. It was interesting how Theon told Robb "I take orders from your father, not from you." Different than the friendship they seemed to have in the books.

#34 dylan

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:52 PM

First of all I loved the first episode, I do agree that it didnt have enough of a hook for new viewers like my dad. He found it a bit confusing. I thought they should have added more of the scene where Jon and Tyrion first meet and talk as it is one of the best scenes in the series and it portrays more of Tyrion that wasnt shown in the episode. Master Luwin wasn't wearing a masters chain too. My dad at the end said he was a little disturbed with what I'm reading which i thought was pretty funny.

#35 morbiczer

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:53 PM

Maester Luwin seems to wear no chain. I wonder why they left that out.

#36 lacuna

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:57 PM

[...]

Why were the wildling bodies arraigned with a circle slash? Another addition to up the creepy factor (it worked) or do the Others have some kind of symbolic magic they wanted to work?

[...]


It's the Danish , a one-letter word meaning "island", slightly askew.

Or the Greek letter Phi, liberally interpreted as taken from the classic "Fee-Phi-fo-fum. I smell the blood of an Englishman; Be he alive or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread!"

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

#37 Huan

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:05 PM

Maester Luwin seems to wear no chain. I wonder why they left that out.


It looks like he's wearing a large-link chain that dips down to his waist or so...

#38 Russ Snow

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:07 PM

One part of it was that they wanted a visually beautiful setting and they felt this did the trick better than a grassy plain. As for explanations, the part of the Dothraki not even wanting to go near the sea is unimportant to the plot. Such detailed criticism will pick the entire show apart.


I hear ya, not trying to pick it apart just throwing in my two cents, and I think it important because a little later in GOT drogo won't take dany across the narrow sea because of the water and it's core to the dothraki beliefs, I just thought it was off is all, just like the whole time I was wishing the direwolfs were in it more...

#39 Elrick

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:26 PM

None of the changes they made bothers me that much mainly because I look at this series as some what removed in someways from the books. Its just that I feel if you want everything to happen the same way in the shows as the books your just going to be disappointed and will never enjoy the show for what its worth. At least in my opinion.

#40 reiver

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:45 PM

I don't think anyone here is claiming that they want everything to be identical to the books, no-one is deluded enough to think that everything will survive a change of medium. This thread, at least as i judged it and it's how i structured my first reply, is about the differences more from curiosity than trying to hold the show to account. Obviously people are going to have opinions on how well the changes work and whether something is lost or added. For me it's a mixed bag. Some changes like Sansa scene and Cersei+Catelyn add to the show and the characterisation. Others, such as the Brothel scene weaken the show and make it seem puerile rather than adult. What i liked i think i'd like despite the books and same with what i disliked.