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[BOOK & TV SPOILERS] What was left out and what was left in.


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#61 CryFenril

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:33 PM

Pycelle's chain is often described as "ponderous", with many more gold and silver links (along with gemstones) than lesser metals. Treatment will be interesting indeed!

#62 Huan

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:47 PM

And no tinkly boys! That's gonna take away one of Strong Belwas' iconic lines!


"They jingle when they die." I thought I heard bells tinkling in Khal Drogo and Dany's consummation scene. Will have to re-watch to check.

#63 Inglorious Pencil

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:52 PM

Yes, it is mentioned but just that once. And Jaimie brings additional girls into the whorehouse? And Winterfell has a whorehouse? That really doesn't look like a whorehouse?

I've got a suspicion this was a last minute (or at least very late) addition.


If I remember correctly, that scene was in the very first script that leaked for the pilot, except that it was set in King's Landing and Jaime went to summon Tyrion because they had to begin their trip north. Apparently they wanted to delay Tyrion's appearance as much as possible, though yeah, the details of it are a bit murky - I don't think there's a brothel in Winterfell, I guess we are supposed to assume it's someplace down the kingsroad or in a nearby village. Also I thought the other girls were from the whorehouse as well? Except that Tyrion only hired one and Jaime eventually paid for the rest so his lil' bro would be done quicker.

#64 arya_underfoot

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:43 PM

What's up with Jaime's accent? It sounds wierd and out of place.

Anyway, Catelyn's character has been portrayed very differently to what I would've expected, and what's in the books. In the books, I thought she was very ambitious, and was keen for her children to go to King's Landing, and for Sansa to wed into the royal family. I think she even said something along of lines of Ned deserving the promotion to Hand and the associated prestige/glory etc...None of that comes across. Instead, she wants to stay in the North with her husband and children.

I was also very disappointed that Tyrion didn't do a reverse somersault when he runs into Jon outside the dining hall.

#65 Damocles

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:22 AM

It was deeply disappointing that set the tone of the Tyrion's character by jumping right in, and then exaggerating and blowing up his whoremongering. He's much more insecure in the novel, and it is in other areas that he surprises and excells. Here, he's having a gangbang with Jaime in the first twenty minutes.

#66 kn32

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:14 AM

It was deeply disappointing that set the tone of the Tyrion's character by jumping right in, and then exaggerating and blowing up his whoremongering. He's much more insecure in the novel, and it is in other areas that he surprises and excells. Here, he's having a gangbang with Jaime in the first twenty minutes.


This right here is my one serious complaint of the show. While it's definitely not something that would keep me from enjoying the series, it's a big blow, because Tyrion was always my favorite (after Ned kicked it, at least).

In my mind, one of the key components for building Tyrion Lannister is that he has been a tortured individual, and while he looks like a monster and is surrounded by real ones within his own family, he has a good moral compass. He's also a hopeless romantic with a severely wounded heart and possessive nature. The careless orgy scene is not fitting.

It's possible that I could imagine that whore house scene playing out in his youth, but it does not fit at all with the dwarf I grew to enjoy so much now at all.

#67 The Direwolf

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:15 AM

I think a little too much is being read into the whorehouse scene. I have a feeling throughout the series the insecurities of Tyrion will become quite clear and prevalent. I think one thing the whorehouse scene did nicely that no one seems to have metioned here is establish the relationship between Jaime and Tyrion. In the book in Tyrion's POV we see him say how Jaime is the only really family member who ever understood him and didn't make him feel bad, but we don't have a ton of interaction between the two to actually show that to be the case. Since the show obviously can't really give us those insights from Tyrion's POV this type of scene at the very least did a decent job of showing the two brothers have a pretty good relationship despite whatever else may be going on with the Lannister family.

#68 Ser Warpechowski

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 06:43 AM

None of the changes they made bothers me that much mainly because I look at this series as some what removed in someways from the books. Its just that I feel if you want everything to happen the same way in the shows as the books your just going to be disappointed and will never enjoy the show for what its worth. At least in my opinion.


I disagree. Every single adaptation so far is like that. I hoped ASOIAF was going to be diferent

They have 10 episodes for a 1.000 pages book. That is way more than most books get. They could´ve had done some things better. The great scenes from the book are poorly portrayed on screen. The prologue is important, it sets the idea that there is some horrible shit going on that no ones know about while humans play their silly power games. There was suposed to be some kind of alien inteligent race that mocks humans, not a werewolf/uruk hai head tossing hybrid who likes to decor using torn pieces of anatomy. Bran´s fall has absolutely no build up and has nowhere near the impact it has on the books. IMHO, that is the most impressive scene from the early part of the books and it was poorly done.

They could´ve spent more focus on the relationship between the characters and the details from the book. Instead they layered the grounds for a show that, IMHO, will only focus on major political schemes and power strugle while totaly ignoring the small things. You know, Team Stark VS Team Lannisters.

Just hope it changes in the next episodes and the first one was tailored like that just to catch the audience attention (less nudity and more dialogue). Im also looking to see episode 8, which was directed by GRRM.

Edited by Ser Warpechowski, 19 April 2011 - 06:46 AM.


#69 Ser Warpechowski

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 06:51 AM

This right here is my one serious complaint of the show. While it's definitely not something that would keep me from enjoying the series, it's a big blow, because Tyrion was always my favorite (after Ned kicked it, at least).

In my mind, one of the key components for building Tyrion Lannister is that he has been a tortured individual, and while he looks like a monster and is surrounded by real ones within his own family, he has a good moral compass. He's also a hopeless romantic with a severely wounded heart and possessive nature. The careless orgy scene is not fitting.

It's possible that I could imagine that whore house scene playing out in his youth, but it does not fit at all with the dwarf I grew to enjoy so much now at all.


Agreed. They broke the character already.

Also, the character has got to be the best looking dwarf Iīve ever seen. I was expecting the oposite. I wanted to see a ugly as f=ck dwarf who limped. I mean, isnt this HBO? I thought they were the ones who could pull it of.

This kind of thing (not to mention Dany and Drogo) makes me believe they will dispose of most of the characters details and just go for the whole macro Stark vs Lannister deal. Still, it was just one episode, I guess we will have to wait more.

#70 Manakhkubar

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 07:01 AM

Just hope it changes in the next episodes and the first one was tailored like that just to catch the audience attention (less nudity and more dialogue). Im also looking to see episode 8, which was directed by GRRM.


_Written_ by Martin, not directed by him I hope. I agree they flattened and streamlined a lot so far - which was going to happen no matter what - but I too didn't like the trade-off of story and "fan service" ratio in EP1. However, I liked _how_ they compressed story and relationships so far. And I was positively surprised how they handled some critical scenes.

#71 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 07:37 AM

Agreed. They broke the character already.

Also, the character has got to be the best looking dwarf Iīve ever seen. I was expecting the oposite. I wanted to see a ugly as f=ck dwarf who limped. I mean, isnt this HBO? I thought they were the ones who could pull it of.

This kind of thing (not to mention Dany and Drogo) makes me believe they will dispose of most of the characters details and just go for the whole macro Stark vs Lannister deal. Still, it was just one episode, I guess we will have to wait more.

I'm glad I'm not that dramatic when I watch things. We've hardly seen much of Tyrion so I find it far too early to say what they are doing with his character.

By uglying him up they would probably reduce the effectiveness of his acting since such makeup covers some facial expressions etc. The fact that he's a dwarf alone makes him repulsive to most people in Westeros (thus covering all important parts) and there are future events that will be even more sad for him if he isn't ugly in every sense of the word. This is not a problem for me as the original Tyrion is still available in the book.

And of course many character details will be disposed of. Martin's characters are deeper than most TV show characters even from shows where there's focus just on a few. This has a ton of characters so it should be obvious that the show will be more shallow than the book.

#72 Ser Warpechowski

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 08:14 AM

I'm glad I'm not that dramatic when I watch things. We've hardly seen much of Tyrion so I find it far too early to say what they are doing with his character.

By uglying him up they would probably reduce the effectiveness of his acting since such makeup covers some facial expressions etc. The fact that he's a dwarf alone makes him repulsive to most people in Westeros (thus covering all important parts) and there are future events that will be even more sad for him if he isn't ugly in every sense of the word. This is not a problem for me as the original Tyrion is still available in the book.

And of course many character details will be disposed of. Martin's characters are deeper than most TV show characters even from shows where there's focus just on a few. This has a ton of characters so it should be obvious that the show will be more shallow than the book.


Yeah, but now they have 10 episodes covering 600 minutes of content. They couldīve had done it better. It can be shallow, just not that much.

Anyway, that is based on one episode. Maybe they rushed things in the first episode so they could spend more time developing other parts of the story. Anyway, I still want some aditiona ressources, like some flashbacks detailing Tyrion story and the battle between Rhaegar and Robert. The great thing about the book is that it transitions extremely well from current events to past events and the characters thoughts about it. I wish they have time to explore that.

#73 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 08:36 AM

Yeah, but now they have 10 episodes covering 600 minutes of content. They could´ve had done it better. It can be shallow, just not that much.

Anyway, that is based on one episode. Maybe they rushed things in the first episode so they could spend more time developing other parts of the story. Anyway, I still want some aditiona ressources, like some flashbacks detailing Tyrion story and the battle between Rhaegar and Robert. The great thing about the book is that it transitions extremely well from current events to past events and the characters thoughts about it. I wish they have time to explore that.

The first episode was pretty much spot on for covering 10% of the pages of the novel. Putting less into the first episode means that another episode will have to be even more rushed than this was, or that they need to cut out even more of the plot and details than they have done (making it more shallow overall, not less as you suggested). And as a side note, most episodes will be shorter than 60 minutes. Add that the opening and closing credits take some time and there's unfortunately clearly less than 600 minutes for the plot. I think you're overestimating how much time they have, both in numbers and in how long it takes to tell things.

From what we've heard the first two episodes have the highest pace (out of the six that's been made available to some). Probably because they want to establish as much as possible in the beginning so the rest can play on that. As for flashbacks, I thought there would be some of those but I know a few reviewers commended the show on not doing something as cheesy as flashbacks, instead telling the story through dialog, so it doesn't seem that the first six episodes will have them.

Edited by Tywin's bastard, 19 April 2011 - 08:37 AM.


#74 darrylzero

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 09:18 AM

A few things i noticed changed:

Ned's speech to Bran about bravery and about how a person who deserts is dangerous (which ties in to Osha's intro).


I hope they find a way to work that in later, with Bran asking about or something, though it sure doesn't seem very likely since he's already been thrown from the tower. Still, that's a pretty huge omission. I feel like those would have been some of the better lines to keep.

I also wish Theon had kicked the head. Oh well. Overall, though, very impressed.

#75 Snow White

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 09:52 AM

In my mind, one of the key components for building Tyrion Lannister is that he has been a tortured individual, and while he looks like a monster and is surrounded by real ones within his own family, he has a good moral compass. He's also a hopeless romantic with a severely wounded heart and possessive nature. The careless orgy scene is not fitting.


That's just it, it's a careless, nay joyful, orgy. All they had to do was have the new girls rush in eagerly and then draw up short when they realize what they got themselves into. Have Jaimie slap them on the ass and tell them to get to work and you've established Tyrion in the eyes of Westeros.


There was suposed to be some kind of alien inteligent race that mocks humans, not a werewolf/uruk hai head tossing hybrid who likes to decor using torn pieces of anatomy.


Yeah, I'm puzzled why they went in that direction. They look almost simian. And why call them "White Walkers" when they're so dark?

Branīs fall has absolutely no build up and has nowhere near the impact it has on the books. IMHO, that is the most impressive scene from the early part of the books and it was poorly done.


I have to disagree there. The GF hasn't read the books and she was absolutely shocked by that. She wouldn't let me go to sleep until I told her if Bran lived or not.

#76 Myrddin

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:22 AM

I assumed the "white walkers" title is to differentiate the show from Lost, which used The Others for their, um, other people too.

#77 Abaddon

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:23 AM

That's just it, it's a careless, nay joyful, orgy. All they had to do was have the new girls rush in eagerly and then draw up short when they realize what they got themselves into. Have Jaimie slap them on the ass and tell them to get to work and you've established Tyrion in the eyes of Westeros.

And ruined Jaime's and Tyrion's relationship, which would be a much bigger misstep than they made with the scene in the first place (and I didn't really like the scene). You think Jaime would send whores in on Tyrion without warning them first? Without giving them a very healthy purse of Lannister gold first?

#78 GileanTheGrey

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:47 AM

That's just it, it's a careless, nay joyful, orgy. All they had to do was have the new girls rush in eagerly and then draw up short when they realize what they got themselves into. Have Jaimie slap them on the ass and tell them to get to work and you've established Tyrion in the eyes of Westeros.

Yeah, I'm puzzled why they went in that direction. They look almost simian. And why call them "White Walkers" when they're so dark?



I have to disagree there. The GF hasn't read the books and she was absolutely shocked by that. She wouldn't let me go to sleep until I told her if Bran lived or not.


My wife hasn't read the books either, and she wouldn't let me so much as leave the couch until I told her if Bran was alive or not. Though it was actually pretty misleading when they showed the preview for ep2 and someone (Cat I think?) mentioned "murdering" Bran. Not sure if I like that or not. My wife also asked why they were called "White Walkers" when there was nothing white about them.

#79 Snow White

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:52 AM

And ruined Jaime's and Tyrion's relationship, which would be a much bigger misstep than they made with the scene in the first place (and I didn't really like the scene). You think Jaime would send whores in on Tyrion without warning them first? Without giving them a very healthy purse of Lannister gold first?


Fair point, but then show that.

Then again, outside of his family (and the smallfolk,) a lot of that loathing seems to exist in his own head. They may be playing that angle here, but I wonder if it'll come across that way or if it'll just seem inconsistent.

#80 Prince of Dinas Emrys

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 11:10 AM

I disliked the "whores" scene the moment I saw it, though it was certainly amusing and rather vivid. I can't seem to put my finger on precisely why I dislike it, it just feels out-of-character for Jaime (even if he did hire Tyssha for Tyrion -- or did he?), and anyway, where exactly were they?