177 replies to this topic

[Whitering]

A, on 20 April 2011 - 08:50 AM, said:

No Mance Radyar at the feast

We don't know that. We didn't know he was at the feast in the books until book 2 I think.

[CuseGirl]

Khalasar, on 21 April 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

You're not the only once Cuse.  The Mrs (who introduced me to the books) found it disturbing enough that she left the room.

lollll...my dad, who hasn't read the book, actually argued with me saying "she did want to do it" and I'm like "what scene did you watch? because he clearly pushed her hands down".....maybe the next episode will start where that scene left off, I dunno...but I have to teach myself that it's an ADAPTATION, and while I'm currently reading these books and forming my own mental pictures, I can't push away the TV enjoyment because it's slightly different.....

[CuseGirl]

Kaitscralt, on 20 April 2011 - 12:54 PM, said:

Also, the Dothraki wedding seemed very toned down and almost silly with just a couple people tussling. I imagine the recasting of Daenerys severely messed up the budget of this scene -- I heard it had to be redone on a lesser scale -- but I could be mistaken.

remember those scenes are from her perspective, not ours. Targaryens would probably think a Dothraki wedding was silly....I actually didn't think it was barbaric enuff, there was a lot of dry humping....

After checking out who Daneryes would have been, i'm glad they re-cast her....

Edited by CuseGirl, 21 April 2011 - 04:41 PM.

[TyrionTargaryen]

So was that Quentyn giving Daenerys the snakes?

[Tasmanian Tiger]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the glaring omission from the first episode of Bran and Joffrey's mock-duel in the training yard. While it's not an important scene at the time, it becomes the answer to one of the biggest mysteries throughout the entire series.

Either they're going to have to flashback to it, discuss it in conversation or change the outcome of that plotline entirely. As the scene is relatively insignificant unto itself, there would be no reason to do either of the first two options until the mystery itself is solved. That would mean somewhere in season 3 or 4 they'd have to say, "Hey, we solved this mystery. It was something that happened years ago that we never discussed but totally happened." And that's going to confuse the audience.

Most likely they're going to cut it. That means finding a whole new villain to blame and a reason to blame them. A strange alteration in any case.

[Aoife]

I think you're misattributing causes for that mystery. If you're talking about what I figure you're talking about, the instigator's reasoning is explained later. Looking for approval from a distant father-figure. (And yes, it was only explained later, IIRC, we don't hear the inspiring quote first-hand.)

[Bronn Stone]

Tasmanian Tiger, on 21 April 2011 - 08:13 PM, said:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the glaring omission from the first episode of Bran and Joffrey's mock-duel in the training yard. While it's not an important scene at the time, it becomes the answer to one of the biggest mysteries throughout the entire series.

Either they're going to have to flashback to it, discuss it in conversation or change the outcome of that plotline entirely. As the scene is relatively insignificant unto itself, there would be no reason to do either of the first two options until the mystery itself is solved. That would mean somewhere in season 3 or 4 they'd have to say, "Hey, we solved this mystery. It was something that happened years ago that we never discussed but totally happened." And that's going to confuse the audience.

Most likely they're going to cut it. That means finding a whole new villain to blame and a reason to blame them. A strange alteration in any case.

I don't think the duel between Joffrey and Robb (not Bran) was the reason Joff sent the killer.  It was more about trying to impress his father.   Joff held no ill-feelings about Bran either way.  We'll know more after episode 2 - whether the knife plot changes will hinge on what is said in front of Joffrey by Robert (or someone else).

[CuseGirl]

Bronn Stone, on 21 April 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I don't think the duel between Joffrey and Robb (not Bran) was the reason Joff sent the killer.  It was more about trying to impress his father.   Joff held no ill-feelings about Bran either way.  We'll know more after episode 2 - whether the knife plot changes will hinge on what is said in front of Joffrey by Robert (or someone else).

Wait, when did we find out who tried to kill Bran? I guess I gotta re-read the book, I missed that completely....

[Tasmanian Tiger]

CuseGirl, on 21 April 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

Wait, when did we find out who tried to kill Bran? I guess I gotta re-read the book, I missed that completely....

I forget the exact book, though I think it's the last one. It comes after every other possible alternative is dangled and then refuted.

And yes, they did mention he wanted fatherly approval but without something happening to bring the lives of Bran and Joffrey together it would seem a strange leap from the old man saying, “Poor kid shouldn’t have to live as a cripple” to the son going, “I know, I’ll enact a plot to kill that kid in a highly clandestine manner.”

Granted, Joffrey is an idiot so anything is possible.

[Bronn Stone]

Tasmanian Tiger, on 21 April 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:

I forget the exact book, though I think it's the last one. It comes after every other possible alternative is dangled and then refuted.

And yes, they did mention he wanted fatherly approval but without something happening to bring the lives of Bran and Joffrey together it would seem a strange leap from the old man saying, “Poor kid shouldn’t have to live as a cripple” to the son going, “I know, I’ll enact a plot to kill that kid in a highly clandestine manner.”

Granted, Joffrey is an idiot so anything is possible.

Not as strange as "I quarreled with Robb so I will kill Bran".  Bran and Tommen got along famously during their duel.  Laughing their heads off as boys playing would.

[The_Halfhand]

First off, I just want to say that as a die-hard fan of the books, i will support this show in any way that i can.  However, there are a lot of changes they made to the show which just make no sense to me, especially when the book nailed them so perfectly.

1.  The changes to the prologue

Switching the two characters of Gared and Will isn't that big of a deal to me, but the imagining of The Others and the death of Weymar Royce was.  The fight between Royce and The Other while his companions looked on, and then Royce's resurrection as a wight communicated so many things - the nature of the Night's Watch and the threat of the Others.  I also think they introduced the Wall too early.  it's going to take some of the impact out of it when Jon and Tyrion first arrive and see it for the first time.

2.  The chances to the Direwolf scene

Honestly, the changes they made to this scene baffle me.  It was nailed perfectly in the book, all they had to do was translate the lines to the screen.  Instead, they totally gut the symbolism of the scene and the relationships of the brothers.  Ned's reaction in the show to the keeping of the pups was so out of character it was cringe-inducing.

3.  Jon Arryn's funeral

I feel like the adding of this scene takes a lot of the intrigue out of the early portion of the story.  This is stuff thaqt could have been communicated at the end of the episode where it was supposed to be.

4.  The Haircut scene.

Honestly, why was this scene in the show?  Theon, Robb, and Jon getting haircuts and saying the Prince is a royle prick.  Then, they say "Sheer him good" in relation to Jon, but the next scene his hair looks exactly the same.  Brilliant.

5.  The King's Arrival

Why they made the changes here is another big question.  The stuff with Arya chattering on clumsy exposition like "Where's the Imp?" and "That's Jamie Lannister! The Queen's Twin Brother!" was horrid.  Seriously, they couldn't think to come up with a more clever way to communicate that information?  And Sana's "Shut UP!" constantly being repeated was a bit out of character.  Sansa is always so well mannered in the books except when pushed publically by Arya.

6.  The crypt scene.

There was SO MUCH that could have been communicated in the crypt scene between Robert and Ned with the addition of a few simple lines.  Again, they seemed to be changed needlessly.

7.  Danny's bath.

Anyone else think the "No milady! Its too hot!" line was handled poorly?  How hard would it have been to have Danny say something about her liking the heat?

8.  Tyrion's Introduction

The scene where they introduce Tyrion was horrible.  Just horrible.  First off, they present him as being far more leterchous than he is in the books.  And much of his dialogue in that scene made very little sense.  I'd rather they would have kept his introduction short and gave him his full interaction with Jon at the feast as his first intro to the audience.

9.  Lack of Direwolves

The Direwolves play such a huge roll in the books, and here they are completely marginalized.  Especially concerning Jon Snow and Ghost.

10.  Jon Snow's scene during the feast

Jon is coming of as way more petulant than he was in the books.  He's sooooooo emo!  No interaction with Ghost, and his first scene with Tyrion was so mishandled, it captured none of the budding friendship that was there in the book.  Very disappointing with the changes made there.  The lines about Tyrion's birth killing his mother and Jon never knowing his mother were KINDA important, and yet nowhere to be heard.

11.  Danny's "rape" scene

I thought that it was terrible how Danny never got the "freedom rush" of riding her horse through her wedding, and then eventually submitted herself to Drogo, which was all very important to her development in the books.  Here, she's just scared, scared, scared, and then raped.  Totally sets the wrong tone for her character, who is much more active in the novels.

12.  The things I do for love...

Finally, the final line that Jamie delivers was soooooo poorly done.  In the books, he goes to help Bran until his sister says "What are you doing?"  Only then does he ask Bran his age, and then pushes him off the tower by saying - WITH LOATHING - the things I do for love.  obviously, no one on the production staff bothered to read the book before shooting that scene.  Jamie isn't a "bad character," Cerci is, and he did what he thought she wanted him to do, even though he hated it (a common thread for Jamie, who had to put up with the crazy stuff King Arey's did.)

So did I hate the show?  No, I didn't hate it.  But I didn't love it as much as I should have because of the silly changes that were made.  I'll keep watching, and I hope they'll get better about sticking to the important stuff in the novels.  But it really upsets me that these little nuances that made the series so enjoyable were changed for the show without any good reason for doing so.

[Whitering]

The_Halfhand, on 22 April 2011 - 01:29 AM, said:

...So did I hate the show?  No, I didn't hate it.  But I didn't love it as much as I should have because of the silly changes that were made.  I'll keep watching, and I hope they'll get better about sticking to the important stuff in the novels.  But it really upsets me that these little nuances that made the series so enjoyable were changed for the show without any good reason for doing so.

I agree with all your points. On top of all that, I don't think Arya would have even known that information. She never paid attention to that kind of stuff. It would make more sense for Sansa to be pointing it out. I don't know, her characterization was slightly off. Yes, she is mischievous but also a little angry for being forced into the role of a noble daughter. I guess that's not important at this stage of the show but I hope they introduce it later.

[TyrionTargaryen]

The_Halfhand, on 22 April 2011 - 01:29 AM, said:

The_Halfhand said:

"wahhhh"

Because the number of executive producers, writers and also George Martin collaborating to fit 85 pages into 60 minutes is easy.

If we all had our say on how it shoulda been portrayed while sticking to the time constraint and getting the messages across, we would have 1,000,000 different versions of the show.

I had some grievances as well but thought that turning 85 pages into 60 minutes was done terrificly. But it looks like you should just stop watching now.

[ser_nerdick]

The_Halfhand, on 22 April 2011 - 01:29 AM, said:

4.  The Haircut scene.

Honestly, why was this scene in the show?  Theon, Robb, and Jon getting haircuts and saying the Prince is a royle prick.  Then, they say "Sheer him good" in relation to Jon, but the next scene his hair looks exactly the same.  Brilliant.

Ha, good point. I thought the same thing about his hair. I expected him to have very closely cropped hair in the next scene.

[johnnysd]

To be honest, I am a little surprised at all the wailing about the Dany scene, especially amongst those who have read the books multiple times. While that scene is very touching in the books, right after that Drogo does start raping here EVERY DAY to the point that Dany considers killing herself. The way they have done it in the series will make a lot more sense especially to those new to the books because as their love grows it will seem more believable and be a better overall arc.

Also, a lot of the dialogue that people are missing so much may actually have been filmed and cut down in editing. It will be very interesting if there is a possibility of director's cuts of the shows on Blu-ray. It would really help to sell them and be a great gift to fans.

[Kaitscralt]

Guys I suggest you stop watching the show right now because the preview for the next episode includes another made up scene not in the books. Too bad, so sad.  

Is this your first time seeing a film adaptation of a novel?

Edited by Kaitscralt, 22 April 2011 - 12:55 PM.

[Brienne the Beauty]

johnnysd, on 22 April 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

To be honest, I am a little surprised at all the wailing about the Dany scene, especially amongst those who have read the books multiple times. While that scene is very touching in the books, right after that Drogo does start raping here EVERY DAY to the point that Dany considers killing herself. The way they have done it in the series will make a lot more sense especially to those new to the books because as their love grows it will seem more believable and be a better overall arc.

I agree.

I think it's a compression of the "bad stage" of their relationship. They don't have the time to show the detail of the book, by including repeating scenes of Drogo abusing Dany, so they combined all the abusive stage of their relationship into one scene. Probably next episode we will see them beginning to come to an understanding as husband and wife.

[Snow White]

TyrionTargaryen, on 22 April 2011 - 07:59 AM, said:

I had some grievances as well but thought that turning 85 pages into 60 minutes was done terrificly. But it looks like you should just stop watching now.

OK, but Halfhands suggestions would have (largely) improved the thing without adding time. It's fair to note that.

ser_nerdick, on 22 April 2011 - 11:12 AM, said:

Ha, good point. I thought the same thing about his hair. I expected him to have very closely cropped hair in the next scene.

That was an odd scene. The barber is the fight coordinator, so that may have just been some service.

Brienne the Beauty, on 22 April 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

I think it's a compression of the "bad stage" of their relationship. They don't have the time to show the detail of the book, by including repeating scenes of Drogo abusing Dany, so they combined all the abusive stage of their relationship into one scene. Probably next episode we will see them beginning to come to an understanding as husband and wife.

I think that's where they're going with it, but I also think they're overthinking themselves. A "yes" would have taken a second, but conveyed volumes.

We'll see if they address these things next Sunday.

[johnnysd]

Brienne the Beauty, on 22 April 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

I agree.

I think it's a compression of the "bad stage" of their relationship. They don't have the time to show the detail of the book, by including repeating scenes of Drogo abusing Dany, so they combined all the abusive stage of their relationship into one scene. Probably next episode we will see them beginning to come to an understanding as husband and wife.

With the Dany relationship they could move the "tell him that he has give me the wind" scene after the consumation scene as a way to stay true to the book and smoothly transition into the next phase of their relationship.

[Brienne the Beauty]

johnnysd, on 22 April 2011 - 04:18 PM, said:

With the Dany relationship they could move the "tell him that he has give me the wind" scene after the consumation scene as a way to stay true to the book and smoothly transition into the next phase of their relationship.

That would have looked really odd on TV. Without Dany's internal monologue, it would have looked like she got raped, but was then given a present and was perfectly happy about it. Not exactly PC, or anywhere near what the original scene meant to convey. Who knows, we might see that scene next week.