353 replies to this topic

[smegma]

Instead of replying to all of the posts about nitpicking and its virtues or downfalls, I'll instead respect the mod request of not derailing the thread too much - but regardless of how one or two people may have construed my tone, the true sentiment that I feel (and maybe to some I didn't convey) is one of imploring those that have been less than happy with the adaptation to look at the positives, and go in with more appropriate expectations. The vast majority of people seem VERY pleased, so I'm glad that there's so many that can take this enjoyable experience of seeing your favorite novels adapted so well for the screen. I hope that those that aren't so thrilled can find either enjoyment in their adjusted expectations, or in the gripefest they can't wait to post about (and I guess adjusting my OWN expectations for what people see and discuss is in order as well).

I for one, love coming to these boards to partake in a communal celebration at how AWESOME things are - and to note the things I might have missed upon my viewing (many GRRM fans seem very keen). I guess if there does come a time when I'm less than pleased, I will make it known. I am just glad I haven't had really any opportunity to do so, and barring any ridiculous and unforeseen deviation from what we've seen thus far (like making Brienne a dude playing a girl, as some have suggested), I think the future bodes well for my fangirl cheering and kool-aid drinking!

ANYWAY

lockesnow, on 25 April 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

finished the locked thread, will catch up on this later.

I wanted to note I really loved that Catelyn had her council in front of the heart tree. I think the things said in front of the heart trees will be incredibly important later on.

Speaking of important, someone said:

I think that in this context the hearttree stuff is significant, I also think that it's very significant that they retain Jorah's line about the Asshai Ghost Grass. I'm thinking that Dany will be circuiting the world and landing on the west coast of Westeros, not the east coast.  We're going to see Asshai later, and it will be very important.

Agree on all things - the line from Jorah seemed an interesting choice, as there are so many things to discuss about the lands and the Dothraki - and I can only think it foretells something significant in the future. I noted that right away, and it was one of the only things I had to tell my daughter about in more detail (otherwise she pretty much GETS everything).

As far as the secret council in the godswood - very, very interesting. Same with the conversation between Jon and Jaime. All of these things may portend nothing - or they may be throwing us an early bone

Last note - I totally have the opening scene music stuck in my head and I'm so in love with it! Stirring, really.

[Rodgex]

One thing I didn't like that was left out was the naming of the direwolves, but I suppose with the limited time they couldn't spent the time explaining who Nymeria was, or explaining the names of the other direwolves. I think they really managed to get across the sense that Cat hates Jon, because in the first episode I felt it could have been done a lot better. Also, I really need to commend them for getting Joffrey so right, I've wanted to punch him in the face just about every time he's been on-screen... Also, I love Tyrion for bitch-slapping him...

[lockesnow]

I think Cersei's confession to Cat has to be important, otherwise it makes no sense within the reality of the mileau.  In this society, few things would be more celebrated than the first pregnancy of the new king and queen.  As soon as he found out Cersei was pregnant, Robert would definitely throw himself a Tourney to celebrate his fucking virility.  Even a miscarriage would be noted, a stillbirth would be a bad omen (probably the worst possible outcome, politically) and the birth (Robert would announce a tourney within seconds of learning of his birth) and subsequent death (national mourning from Dorne to the Gift would be mandatory) would be impossibly big news.  the ravens would be thick in the sky carrying missives this way and that.  Additionally, rumor would rumble to life what it portended that the first child of the usurper died... are the usurpers rejected by the gods etc etc.  Jon Arryn, as Hand, would have probably personally written the letters to the other major houses to inform them of the lost heir.  Ned would have definitely known, presumably he would have told Cat.

It's the consideration of rumour, and the fear of commoners saying the Seven frowned upon the usurper, that offers the only plausible explanation I can think of might explain why the North had not heard of this baby Cersei mentions.  And as I said, once the pregnancy is announced, even a miscarriage is news that would travel. To have not heard of it at all is suggestive of either an early miscarriage (the broken bird thing may be literally the size of a small bird) or a complete lie on Cersei's part.

If it's a lie, it was a stupid lie, easy to expose.  I have a feeling that when Cat meets Ned in Littlefinger's presence, this confession of Cersei's will come up and it will give Littlefinger and incredibly power lever to maneuver the Starks with.  It will be child's play for him to use this scene to further bolster his argument that the Lannister's killed Arryn.

[nymeriathedirewolf]

The episode was brilliant, no doubt, although Cersei's confession to Catelyn did confuse me somewhat. My only issue now is this: How do they plan on fitting the whole of book 1 into 10 episodes? I don't understand - we're still at the part where Bran wakes up, Lady dies, and Cat travels south...there's so much more yet to come! Is the 10 episode thing final or is it just a preliminary run until the producers decide the show is doing well enough to commission a complete season? They do that sometimes - commission 13 episodes or so for a new show until they think the show has picked up a large enough fan following and then commission the rest of the season.

[adam snow]

I loved the adaptation. Perfect? No but I never expected perfection.

When Tyrion came to breakfast I was chanting to myself "burn the bacon, burn the bacon" and he said it!


At  the end when Lady dies and Bran opens his eyes, All I could think was "only death can pay for life." Of course Bran was not dead but in a coma.

I look forward to seeing his 3 eyed crow dream in flashbacks (I hope)

[Spionkop]

Bran waking up was a nod to his warging abilities I thought.

[oneeye]

I still think Dany is a little too voloptuous, and that crazy wig is an eye sore. But her acting has been great.

When the two handmaidens were saying it is known, the second looked like she was going to start laughing any moment which irked.

[VarysTheSpider]

Bean Bags, on 25 April 2011 - 06:02 PM, said:

The complaints I find the most tedious are the ones where fans of the books have complained that someone's importance or some relationship hasn't been emphasized enough in the first two episodes. Cases in point:

• Why haven't we heard Theon's name yet?

I think this one is legitimate. Not because everything needs to be foreshadowed or set up as important this early on, but Theon's had a few lines now and it's very unclear who he is. My friend who watched it with me said during the Godswood scene, "who the fuck IS that guy? Another bastard?" Theon's position is quite a complex one relative to other characters, but considering his age and how he spends most of his time hanging around the Stark children, it should have been cleared up before now or it's just confusing. The ideal moment IMO would have been in the scene where they were getting washed/shaved before the feast, and do it through friendly banter between the guys.

On top of this, I'm not sure Theon really looks the part and the treatment of his character so far is inconsistent. In the first episode he seems on less than good terms with Robb, and in the second he's pledging him his devoted service.

But on the whole I thought episode 2 was excellent. Originally I was sceptical of Jaime and Jon's scene together as I thought it made Jaime look melancholy, but actually he seemed teasing and arrogant, and when he walked away I got a sense that this was a guy with real presence. Arya is fantastic, and so cute. Disappointed that "it should have been you" was cut but I knew the writers would try and make Cat a bit more likable for TV (not too hard considering she's so damned unlikable in the books).

Bring on King's Landing and the Wall.

[Tywin's bastard]

VarysTheSpider, on 26 April 2011 - 07:33 AM, said:

[/list]I think this one is legitimate. Not because everything needs to be foreshadowed or set up as important this early on, but Theon's had a few lines now and it's very unclear who he is. My friend who watched it with me said during the Godswood scene, "who the fuck IS that guy? Another bastard?" Theon's position is quite a complex one relative to other characters, but considering his age and how he spends most of his time hanging around the Stark children, it should have been cleared up before now or it's just confusing. The ideal moment IMO would have been in the scene where they were getting washed/shaved before the feast, and do it through friendly banter between the guys.

On top of this, I'm not sure Theon really looks the part and the treatment of his character so far is inconsistent. In the first episode he seems on less than good terms with Robb, and in the second he's pledging him his devoted service.

But on the whole I thought episode 2 was excellent. Originally I was sceptical of Jaime and Jon's scene together as I thought it made Jaime look melancholy, but actually he seemed teasing and arrogant, and when he walked away I got a sense that this was a guy with real presence. Arya is fantastic, and so cute. Disappointed that "it should have been you" was cut but I knew the writers would try and make Cat a bit more likable for TV (not too hard considering she's so damned unlikable in the books).

Bring on King's Landing and the Wall.

They will introduce Theon in a future episode. I heard a review mention a scene where he tells the back story of his House so it sounds like the show will give a good grasp on it. He's not really relevant to anything at the moment so it's no big deal that new viewers haven't grasped who he is yet, seeing how the show is pressed for time. There are lots of other characters they need to know well by now.

[Kaitscralt]

I think Theon looks and plays the part wonderfully. I do think they should say his name though.

[The Iceman of the North]

On a rewatch I remembered a thought during the first viewing. The scene with King Bobby pissing against a tree reminded me of a scene from Rome when Mark Anthony, on his way to the city, stop by the road for a quick fuck. Somehow I could envision Robert doing the same.

[JetboyGirl]

Kaitscralt, on 26 April 2011 - 07:59 AM, said:

I think Theon looks and plays the part wonderfully. I do think they should say his name though.

I wish his hair would stay the same damn color.

[amore]

Two episodes in and i'm loving it.  I'm not going to join the nitpick brigade, I think we all have to be realistic and accept that with AGoT being such a long book, with hundreds of excellent quotes and scenes, some of our own personal favourites are either going to be omitted or changed in some way.  It is the whole that we have to judge it by.  For me they have just about nailed it so far.  As for my little nitpicks they are trivial and I will keep them to myself for the moment.

My question though is this; Does anybody think that GRR will allow the popularity or otherwise of specific characters in the show to influence his future writing?, i.e. if it becomes apparent that Arya has become the most popular character with the fans of the show, will he build up her part in the final books of the series and increase her overall role in the grand scheme of things, or conversely would he reduce Jon Snow in the same fashion if he proved unpopular?

The use of Arya and Jon is purely random btw and used purely to make the point, i'm not suggesting anything or starting an Arya vs Jon debate.

[Tywin's bastard]

amore, on 26 April 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

Two episodes in and i'm loving it.  I'm not going to join the nitpick brigade, I think we all have to be realistic and accept that with AGoT being such a long book, with hundreds of excellent quotes and scenes, some of our own personal favourites are either going to be omitted or changed in some way.  It is the whole that we have to judge it by.  For me they have just about nailed it so far.  As for my little nitpicks they are trivial and I will keep them to myself for the moment.

My question though is this; Does anybody think that GRR will allow the popularity or otherwise of specific characters in the show to influence his future writing?, i.e. if it becomes apparent that Arya has become the most popular character with the fans of the show, will he build up her part in the final books of the series and increase her overall role in the grand scheme of things, or conversely would he reduce Jon Snow in the same fashion if he proved unpopular?

The use of Arya and Jon is purely random btw and used purely to make the point, i'm not suggesting anything or starting an Arya vs Jon debate.

I don't think he'll change anything due to characters becoming popular. He has already a great grasp of which characters are liked by his readers and I don't think that is influencing him much either.

He's been asked about it in interviews and the only think he's said about it is that he liked the actor that plays Osha so much (despite that she's a bit unlike the book character) that he got inspired to write something interesting for her so she had more interesting things to do on the show. I don't know how serious he was about actually doing that though as it could have just been a way to say that he liked what she did with the character.

[aeoleron9]

The Iceman of the North, on 26 April 2011 - 08:43 AM, said:

On a rewatch I remembered a thought during the first viewing. The scene with King Bobby pissing against a tree reminded me of a scene from Rome when Mark Anthony, on his way to the city, stop by the road for a quick fuck. Somehow I could envision Robert doing the same.

+1, instant dejavu

BTW I'm really digging the new take on the Dany/Khal relationship. Last week I was quite annoyed they'd turned it into some Orientalist rape, but this episode turned that all around. Nice writing as always HBO.

[amore]

Tywin, on 26 April 2011 - 09:11 AM, said:

I don't think he'll change anything due to characters becoming popular. He has already a great grasp of which characters are liked by his readers and I don't think that is influencing him much either.

He's been asked about it in interviews and the only think he's said about it is that he liked the actor that plays Osha so much (despite that she's a bit unlike the book character) that he got inspired to write something interesting for her so she had more interesting things to do on the show. I don't know how serious he was about actually doing that though as it could have just been a way to say that he liked what she did with the character.

Thanks for your response!  I agree with you as it happens.  I am sure that he has invested so much time into working out the overall plot that he would not amend it for so fickle a reason but I was interested to know if other fans agreed.

I also find the development of a scene for Osha interesting.  I've always thought that she had the potential to become a bigger player than she has been to date so would welcome that.

[ser_nerdick]

It seems I'm in the minority here. I want to like it, I really do, but so far I find it mediocre. Maybe the problem is I love the books so much that my expectations were far too high. But even keeping that in mind...

- the whole show has a very made-for-tv feel. If I had just seen the show randomly and had to guess the network, I would guess it's a made for tv series on TNT or sci-fi (or syfy or whatever they call it now); I wouldn't guess HBO. Maybe it's the lighting. Maybe it's the obvious camera angles they use to cover how few extras they have. Maybe it's Dany's wig.

- Lena Headey as Cersei is just terrible. It's beyond annoying how she is covering up her pregnant stomach (and yet it is still incredibly obvious). Her acting is fine, if a bit too heavy on the scowling. But the sexy... the sexy is just not there. At all. And physical attractiveness and sexiness is something that Cersei uses to her advantage often. I know that's a subjective thing, but so far the character is exuding zero sex appeal.

I do like Tyrion. The actor is doing a fine job playing him, and his scenes are wonderful. Arya is well cast as well.

[NW Deserter]

Quote

It's beyond annoying how she is covering up her pregnant stomach (and yet it is still incredibly obvious).

I have not noticed this even one time. I guess that about sums up how differently people are taking in the show.  

[Ser Lany Cassandra]

NW Deserter, on 26 April 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

I have not noticed this even one time. I guess that about sums up how differently people are taking in the show.  

I haven't noticed either.  How much time was there between the pilot and the rest of the episodes being shot?  Maybe she had the baby during the break?

She had her baby in April of 2010, meaning she was as much as 5 months pregnant when the filming ended in December, still not likely to be showing a whole lot, especially not in the dresses she wears.  It's truly a non-issue (other than the one nude sceene where they used a body double)

Edited by Lany Cassandra, 26 April 2011 - 10:14 AM.

[Cereal Forel]

I haven't noticed it either :shrug: They've spent the entire 2 episodes in the north, it's not like Cercei would be walking around in bikinis... people see what they want to see, if you're pre-dispositioned to dislike the show, you're going to dislike it.



Also the direwolves have been called by name. Arya calls Nymeria by her name multiple times, as does Sansa with Lady. Summer hasn't been given a name yet at this point and Ghost, Greywind and Shaggydog were nowhere to be found in the episode.

Edited by Cereal Forel, 26 April 2011 - 10:04 AM.