[book and tv spoilers] Jon's heritage
Posted 27 April 2011 - 03:00 PM
*cough* What inconsistencies? I don't understand what you could possibly mean....
Posted 27 April 2011 - 04:54 PM
One thing this thread brought up that I hadn't considered is that Benjen might know. I had been thinking about who still alive (as of aFFC) might know:
Howland Reed for sure
Wylla would at least know for sure if Jon really is her daughter, Ashara's daughter, or someone else. In the latter case she might not know the full story, but could at least confirm her/Ashara's status
Jojen and Mara Reed MIGHT know...they seem sharp enough not to say anything when they shouldn't (especially Jojen) and Howland might have told them to make sure the knowledge doesn't die out.
And that was all I could come up with. But it would make sense that Ned might have told Benjen about their sister and the Tower of Joy. This would also explain some of the TV cuts to Benjen as implying that Benjen could talk about it/is involved in some way. Of course, Benjen is also MIA unless he's Coldhands, which is an entirely separate theory
Posted 27 April 2011 - 05:01 PM
Posted 27 April 2011 - 05:39 PM
Having said that, let me engage in some idle speculation. Taking into consideration the hints (at least I saw them as hints) that Benjen is Jon's father, what could the whole "Promise me, Ned" business be about. I don't have the books handy, so hopefully none of this is directly contradicted, but what if Lyanna isn't dead? Maybe Ned comes to the Tower of Joy, find Lyanna having given birth, Lyanna makes him promise to hide her and the child from Robert. Ned takes Lyanna and the baby to Starfall where they get on a boat to somewhere in the Free Cities. Meanwhile in Starfall Ned meets Ashara again, who tells him she still loves him. He tells her he's just killed her bro and is married. She offs herself. He travels back to Winterfell. Where did he get the baby? Maybe Ben met him on the way to confess and deliver? Maybe Ashara gave it to him and told him it was Ben's (a stretch)?
Posted 27 April 2011 - 05:55 PM
This one also kinda makes me wonder. How long does Ned plan on staying in the south? 'Cause to hear him say it, you'd think he's gonna be back in a couple months, tops.
Posted 27 April 2011 - 06:23 PM
Posted 27 April 2011 - 06:28 PM
Posted 27 April 2011 - 06:32 PM
Are you suggesting Jon sprung fully formed out of someone's knob?
Posted 27 April 2011 - 07:26 PM
I think he was suggesting that Jon's not a girl.
Posted 27 April 2011 - 11:34 PM
With hair like that it's hard to tell.
Posted 27 April 2011 - 11:57 PM
I think your Titan avatar isn't one to talk!
Posted 28 April 2011 - 01:12 AM
It should be the same with Jon. As LCC of the Night's Watch, he's already at the forefront of the war against the Others. One way or another, he's going to be playing a major role in the story. So what if he's also the Prince's son? He's already believed to be the son of a very great Noble and has already renounced titles and lands in favor of staying and fighting.
I don't even think he'll necessarily be able to warg with Dragons. The whole Ice and Fire motif points to the Direwolves being as important as the Dragons. I think his identity as a Targaryen will have other uses.
Posted 28 April 2011 - 06:18 AM
Just because the topic has "book spoilers" in it doesn't mean that you can spoil any book ever written. There are probably lots of people here that haven't read Jordan's works and some of them might want to do it in the future.
Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:20 AM
Sean Bean is the man. His expression in that scene, the quivering lip as he says we'll talk about your mother...perfection. It's sad how little Ned Stark this series has. I hope GRRM brings him back in a flashback scene or something. All these eps have made me miss the various characters that meet their fates.
Edited by Axon, 28 April 2011 - 08:20 AM.
Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:31 AM
Edited by Ser Helman Tallhart, 28 April 2011 - 08:32 AM.
Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:26 AM
My problem is, everyone but Robert seemed to have liked and respected Rhaegar. And everyone but Cersei seems to have liked Lyanna. So I want to like these characters, not have to dislike them for starting a war by running off together (either for love or to fill some prophecy).
In my very crackpot version, Aerys has Lyanna abducted (most likely to punish her, if he discovered she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree) and rapes her. Then Rheagar wisks her away to the Tower of Joy to protect her and her unborn child. Jon would still a Prince, and a product of Ice and Fire. But, in my version, R and L aren't responsible for everything that follows, Aeys is.
(This really has nothing to do with the show version, as we've seen so little background...just wanted to get that out there as I haven't tossed around any crackpot theories for so long.)
Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:14 AM
Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:19 AM
I'd need to see your longform birth certificate and your college transcript before I will believe *that*.
Edited by TerraPrime, 28 April 2011 - 11:20 AM.
Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:27 PM
Posted 28 April 2011 - 01:21 PM
She said that to Lodengarl, Padraig, and I @ the San Jose Worldcon in 2002. I personally think we were given a Red Herring. And despite 3rd hand reports, we did NOT ask the question. It was just provided. Speaking for myself, I still believe in R+L=J. Too many subtle things point to it.
I've had the 1st Davos chapter from ADwD for awhile now since I won it from GRRM in a football bet and
HUGE SPOILER GO AWAY UNLESS YOU WANTED TO BE SPOILERED: