74 replies to this topic

[The_Halfhand]

1.  Changed:  Ned's arrival at king's Landing

In the book, when Ned is immediately summoned to the small council, he refuses because he's just had a long journey, but quickly decides not to shun the other council members upon his arrival.  In the show, he goes immidiately without bickering.  In the book, he chooses to change his clothes quickly to look presentable.  In the show, when the steward recommends he make himself look presentable, Ned gives him the evil eye.  What's up with that?

2.  Added:  Jamie meets Ned in the Throne Room

In the book, Ned goes straight to the room of the Small Council where we're first introduced to Littlefinger, Varys, and Grand Maester Pycel.  In the show, he first goes to the throne room where Jamie Lannister is waiting for him.

3.  Changed:  "The King Eats, And The Hand Takes The Shit..."

In the book, there is a saying "What the King dreams, the Hand Builds," but Robert communicates the more common phrase "The King eats, and the hand takes the shit" to Ned.  But in the show, it has been changed to the less poetic "The King Shits, and the Hand wipes."  Yet another odd change of dialogue for no apparent reason.

4.  Added:  Jamie's account of the death's of Ned's brother and father.

I believe this was internal monologue from Storm of Swords with Jamie remembering how ned's brother and father were killed by King Aerys, but they fit it into the scene with Ned and Jamie.

5.  Changed:  No Barriston Selmy

The first meeting with the Small Council is largely unchanged from the book, but even though we meet Renly, we have yet to meet Ser Barriston Selmy, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.

6.  Added:  Cercei tending Joffrey's wounds

Seeing Cercei attend Joffrey's wounds, and Joffrey showing his insecurities, and unwillingness to marry Sansa.  Quite a different Joffrey from the one in the books.  Also, Cercei suggesting Joffrey fuck whores is entirely out of character for her.  And Cercei's advice to Joffrey about his conquest of the North was far too shrewd for her.

7.  Changed:  Sansa and Arya eating

In the book, this scene happens much later after the arrival in King's Landing and definitely after Ned meets with Catelyn.  In the book, its a dinner scene in the Small Hall, and the Hand's Tourney is discussed.  In the book, after Ned leaves, Arya runs away angry from Septa Mordane and runs to her room, where Ned later finds her and talks to her.  In the show, Ned sends her to her room.

8.  Added:  Ned and Arya's talk of Joffrey

This quick exchange about Joffrey being a liar was not in the book.

9.  Changed:  Ned's talk of survival in the winter

No talk of the lone wolf dying while the pack survives.  Kind-of important symbolism completely left out of the show.

10.  Left Out:  Bran's dream of the three-eyed crow.

Old Nan's reference to the crow is kinda odd since there was no set up of the three-eyed crow.

11.  Changed:  Bran's scene with Old Nan

No mention of "Brandon the Builder" in this scene.  And Rob does not come to him in the book, instead its Maester Luwin and Hodor, who take him down to the Hall to sit with Rob, who is meeting with Tyrion Lannister on his way back from the Wall.  Obviously, this scene was moved up in the timeline of the TV show, and Bran sits and talks to Rob and talks about losing the use of his legs.

12.  Changed:  Catelyn's arrival in King's Landing

In the book, she arrives by sea and gets to King's Landing before Ned.

13.  Changed:  Catelyn's meeting with Littlefinger

In the book, it was the Tyroshi merchant Moreo who ratted out Catelyn's arrival to Littlefinger.  In the book, she's staying in an Inn and is summoned by men of the City Watch while Ser Roderick is away, and taken to Littlefinger's Brothel.

14.  Added:  Tyrion's scene with Commander Mormont at the Wall

In the book Tyrion never witnessed Ser Allister's training of the boys with Mormont, and Mormont never inexplicably gave Tyrion the message from Winterfell about Bran's revival.

15.  Changed:  Jon's conversation with Donal Noye

In the book, the one-armed smith of the Night's Watch, Donel Noye, is the man who points out Jon's "bullying" of the recruits.  In the show, they gave these lines to Tyrion.  Also, in the book, it's Grenn's wrist Jon injured, not his nose, and the others were not present during Jon's lecture.

16:  Added:  Cercei and Jamie arguing about Bran

Yet another scene told in flashback in a Storm of Swords moved up to the TV show.

17: Added:  Robert talking with Ser Barriston Selmy

Robert recounts killing a Tarly boy as his first kill in battle to Ser Barristan.  We also get to meet Lancel in this scene, and get the story of Jamie fighting the Kingswood Brotherhood, yet another bit of info from a Storm of Swords moved up to game of Thrones.  This scene was not in the book, and only serves to make Robert seem like a true ass hole.

18.  Changed:  The Dothraki Sea

In the book, Danny rides off alone on her horse into the Dothraki sea after commanding the khalasar to halt and wait for her.  In the TV show she dismounts and wanders off for no apparent reason.  Also, in the book, she's the one who commands Viserys to walk back to camp without a horse... something that has much more meaning in the book than it did in the show having Jhogo make that decision.  Also, in the book it was made clear Viserys was enraged after Mormont told him to stay on the ridge.  In the TV show, it seemed a little odd that Viserys would fly off the handle without recieving a direct command.

19.  Changed:  Jon's final meeting with Benjen Stark.

In the book, the meeting happened as Benjen was riding out for his ranging, not at the top of the Wall.

20.  Changed:  Tyrion's meeting in the feast hall of Castle Black

We finally get a proper introduction to Yoren, who seems much less sour than he was in the books.  And for some reason, Benjen Stark is given all of Allister Thorne's hostility towards Tyrion.

21.  Changed:  The revelation of Danny's Pregnancy

slight change from the books.  Danny is practicing her dothraki when Jhiqui tells her she's pregnant.  In the book, Danny already knows.  In the show, it takes Danny by surprise.

22.  Added:  Mormont's scene with Jhogo, discussing weapons and armor

This was not in the books.  And in the books, Jorah never left the khalasar to ride to Quohor after discovering danny was pregnant.

23. Removed:  Jon offering his help to Grenn and embarassing Thorne

Though we see Jon in the yard helping Grenn and Pyp, we don't see the transformation he goes through in the books heading into the feast hall to offer his help, and making fun of Ser Allister.

24.  Changed:  Tyrion's talk with Mormont and Maester Aemon

Many of Mormont's lines were given to Maester Aemon, who comes off more dour and crabby than he does in the books.  In the books, the conversation he has with Mormont about the state of the Night's Watch is done alone, at night by a fire.  Here, its done with both Mormont and Maester Aemon during the day.

25.  Added:  Danny and Drogo in bed

The scene where she tells Drogo her child will be a boy was not in the book.

26.  Added:  Tyrion pissing off the top of the wall

In the book, Tyrion never actually pissed off the edge of the world.  However, they seemed to feel the need to show that in the TV series.  Also, Jon did not ask Tyrion to help Bran, as he did in the book.  And they completely left out the whole "friendship" affirmation that preceded the final handshake between Jon and Tyrion.

27.  Changed:  Ned watching Arya with Syrio Forell

In the books, Ned was never present at any of Arya's trainings.  Also, Syrio Forell was bald in the book.

Overall, I thought the pace of this episode was much to fast, and the writers are yet again making strange changes to iconic lines and scenes.  The best scene in my opinion was Arya and Syrio, since it was the most faithful to the books and worked the best in the show.  Honestly, many of these changes are just unnecessary.  Makes me wonder why the producers are doing these changes.

Also:  NO GHOST AGAIN!!!!  What is up with that?  And come to think of it, no sight of Mormont's crow either.  :-(

Edited by The_Halfhand, 02 May 2011 - 02:20 AM.

[reiver]

Pretty full summary of the changes there. One that i thought was very weird was the change to the Ned/Renly dialogue in the council meeting. Since this is the first time the viewers meet Renly the book dialogue, or at least the jist of it, would make a perfect intro to the character. By having ned say that Renly is the image of his brother it puts in an important plot point and also establishes who the character is and why he's there. It seems strange to leave out this possibility for a rather artful intro.

I didn't like the two added scenes early on: Jamie/Ned and Cersei/Joff. I'm not sure how much this is my inner book geek screaming wrong when they say something that seems out of character or whether the scenes just don't work though.

The Brandon the builder change was a good one imo. By changing it to him liking stories about Dunk it fits his character's dreams of Knighthood. Brandon the builder always strikes me as more the stories Bran would come to prefer. I loved this scene. Old Nan's voice is perfect.

Most of the changes baffle me as well. Maybe it's that i'm too used to the books but certainly the changes seem to be driven by a desire to change rather than to clarify what's covered by internal monologue and description which leaves the lines and speeches feeling poorer.

Edited by reiver, 02 May 2011 - 06:41 AM.

[Kaitscralt]

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18. Changed: The Dothraki Sea

In the book, Danny rides off alone on her horse into the Dothraki sea after commanding the khalasar to halt and wait for her. In the TV show she dismounts and wanders off for no apparent reason. Also, in the book, she's the one who commands Viserys to walk back to camp without a horse... something that has much more meaning in the book than it did in the show having Jhogo make that decision. Also, in the book it was made clear Viserys was enraged after Mormont told him to stay on the ridge. In the TV show, it seemed a little odd that Viserys would fly off the handle without recieving a direct command.

None of the changes bothered me except for Daenerys not showing her backbone against Viserys. It was a needless change and the show seems to be trying to make every character sympathetic for some reason. It was also poorly shown that Viserys had even received a command, so his rage was random and not fleshed out well.

--

Also, without Eddard's POV thoughts the non-reader will be wondering who all these non-named important secondary characters are.

Example: Council meeting, Eddard says, "Lord Baelish" when greeting Littlefinger. Then Catelyn calls him "Petyr" to Eddard when Littlefinger's off-screen. Then Eddard calls him "Littlefinger" to Cat in the next scene. So, to a non-reader, that could be three different people if they aren't very perceptive.

Eddard and Arya talking about the Hound without him ever having been named on the show yet. "Who is the Hound, one of those wolves or something?" - non-reader.

Selmy? Ah, what's in a name. Etc.

Edited by Kaitscralt, 02 May 2011 - 08:06 AM.

[Gargantuanjon Old Chap]

Can't believe they are cutting out Ghost so much. I saw none of him in EP02, and looks like 03 is continuing the trend. Not sure what's up with that, since Ghost's a pretty major player unlike all other wolves.

[Completely Headless Ned]

I thought that Selmy was the dude who Robert was talking too.

[Kaitscralt]

REID1990, on 02 May 2011 - 08:18 AM, said:

I thought that Selmy was the dude who Robert was talking too.

He was, but somebody should have called him by name.

[Completely Headless Ned]

Kaitscralt, on 02 May 2011 - 08:33 AM, said:

He was, but somebody should have called him by name.

True, I didn't know who he was until I came on the forum.

[Memory Lane]

Although I liked seeing Viserys go Full Crazy, it did seem a little odd. The whole scene might have worked better if they'd had Daenerys give some off-hand order to be given to Viserys, then have him fly off the handle.

There was one other thing I also noticed: Jon never makes his heart-felt request to Tyrion to "help Bran". It's sad, because I like Tyrion's response, and it sets up the scene at Winterfell later on.

[CryFenril]

I noticed right away that this episode had many, many more changes (especially in the dialog) than the others, and I suppose it's for pacing's sake. Quite a few important minor characters had to be introduced quickly, and there wasn't enough time to flesh them all out, so it seems to me there was some re-cobbling to fit the pace.

I am okay with Tyrion taking Noye's lines, and even okay with it being done publicly to shame Jon a bit - that's a very Tyrion way to do it. As long as he doesn't take on Donal's fight with Mag the Mighty too, lol.

Okay with Thorne's sidelining as well, since all he is is a dissenting force for Jon to work against. Jon acknowledges that Tyrion was the only one who gave him truth about the Wall, so that (sort of) moves along the friendship-building there.

I do wish we had Ghost though, even just following Jon around. The lack is glaring.

Skipping the sea voyage to get Cat and Rodrick to KL quickly was okay with me, and the dialog between Cat-Ned-Petyr had to be cut down by necessity; it would have been almost long enough to take up the episode by itself if it'd been kept intact, lol.

Glad they at least allowed Petyr to reference Ned's brother and his "token of esteem".

Ned's unease with "courtly life" and the tension between himself and the council was well established, though quickly, and for me it worked.

Reminiscing over wine established a great many things - Robert's weakness for wine and Lancel's awareness (and subsequent resentment); Barristan's steadfast service; Jaimie's casual attitude toward killing and his reaction to Robert's jab underline the fact that the only thing Jaime really takes seriously in his life is Cersei.

Sansa's rejection of her father's gift doesn't quite jive with her book-self trying to be gracious and a proper little lady, but it does go a long way toward showing her teen angst and the terrible position she's been thrown into (further illustrated by Ned explaining to Arya that Sansa cannot betray Joffrey, another nice addition).

The added line from Arya ("How could you let her marry someone like that?") was an unexpected touch - it shows a depth to Arya's character that we might miss elsewise. It sets up the fact that sometimes children see things that adults might not catch.

Thankfully, Syrio and Arya were left completely intact, and I think that was as much a gift from D&D to us readers in exchange for all of the changes as it was anything else. The scene didn't have to be as long as it was to establish what was happening, so I tend to see it as a nod to those of us who memorize stuff like "Just so" and "It is known" and feel a bump in the road when we don't hear them.

The look on Ned's face and the slow change from clacking wooden sounds to clashing steel sounds was incredible - one of the deepest scenes we've seen yet, in five seconds, with no dialog. Sean Bean is blowing me away with his expressiveness. Perhaps the most subtle, yet still the very best, change they have made so far.

"All men are made of water, did you know this?"

[sabrielle6]

Really shocked at the lack of direwolves

[Knight Of The North]

Where the FUCK is Donal Noye?!

[wolverine]

I just read the scene between Arya and Ned in the book and it is ten times better.  There is a lot of Ned hate on this forum due to his lacking political ability/ruthlessness but reading that scene reminds me why I liked him so much.  I do like Arya on the show though.

[CryFenril]

Knight Of The North, on 02 May 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

Where the FUCK is Donal Noye?!

I am afraid he has suffered the Casting Axe, though I do hope he makes an appearance later. While Tyrion did a nice job of taking over Jon's chastising, he might have a hard time with Mag the Mighty in the tunnel below the Wall.

[Kaitscralt]

Knight Of The North, on 02 May 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

Where the FUCK is Donal Noye?!

Better question (IMHO) -- who cares?

[BlackStoneCA]

I think Ran mentioned earlier they had issues when trying to film the Dire Wolves.   It would be extremely distrating scene if the focus was on the animal and not on the scene at hand.   Especially since Ghost is supposed to be silent and rarely makes any sound at all.

[JJxvi]

unlike the books, where GRRM can write whetever he wants to obfuscate identities, the writers of the series probably dont want the asoiaf virgins in the audience to get too good of an idea of what Barristan Selmy is all about (we'll have to see if that continues or if they even make his identity a secret, or if theyve even decided that yet) before that character comes back as the unknown whitebeard.

[Tywin's bastard]

The_Halfhand, on 02 May 2011 - 01:53 AM, said:

2.  Added:  Jamie meets Ned in the Throne Room

In the book, Ned goes straight to the room of the Small Council where we're first introduced to Littlefinger, Varys, and Grand Maester Pycel.  In the show, he first goes to the throne room where Jamie Lannister is waiting for him.

I'd say that the change is that the Council's chamber is located in a room somewhere behind the throne room and that he meets Jaime on the way. He doesn't go to the throne room, just passing through it on the way.

The_Halfhand, on 02 May 2011 - 01:53 AM, said:

3.  Changed:  "The King Eats, And The Hand Takes The Shit..."

In the book, there is a saying "What the King dreams, the Hand Builds," but Robert communicates the more common phrase "The King eats, and the hand takes the shit" to Ned.  But in the show, it has been changed to the less poetic "The King Shits, and the Hand wipes."  Yet another odd change of dialogue for no apparent reason.

You found the one with "the Hand takes the shit" poetic!? It sure is the first I've heard someone say that.

The_Halfhand, on 02 May 2011 - 01:53 AM, said:

17: Added:  Robert talking with Ser Barriston Selmy

Robert recounts killing a Tarly boy as his first kill in battle to Ser Barristan.  We also get to meet Lancel in this scene, and get the story of Jamie fighting the Kingswood Brotherhood, yet another bit of info from a Storm of Swords moved up to game of Thrones.  This scene was not in the book, and only serves to make Robert seem like a true ass hole.

I think your estimation of what the scene serves as is a bit lacking. It tells us that Robert once was a fierce warrior, it introduces Ser Barristan (although not by name yet), it introduces Lancel as his squire in a way that vaguely hints to a future event, it tells us more about Jaime, it tells us a bit more about the Mad King and then it tells us that Robert is a disillusioned, drunken ass. And there's some more minor things.

The_Halfhand, on 02 May 2011 - 01:53 AM, said:

20.  Changed:  Tyrion's meeting in the feast hall of Castle Black

We finally get a proper introduction to Yoren, who seems much less sour than he was in the books.  And for some reason, Benjen Stark is given all of Allister Thorne's hostility towards Tyrion.

The reason is probably to give Benjen time to establish his character so new viewers might care when he never returns.

The_Halfhand, on 02 May 2011 - 01:53 AM, said:

22.  Added:  Mormont's scene with Jhogo, discussing weapons and armor

This was not in the books.  And in the books, Jorah never left the khalasar to ride to Quohor after discovering danny was pregnant.

From what I remember there's nothing saying that Ser Jorah doesn't ride off. We don't get to see anything about how he reports what happens but we clearly see the effects of that he does and he must be communicating somehow. So I'd say that the change is that we get to see a hint of Ser Jorah acting on new information, while we don't in the book (until Vaes Dothrak).

The_Halfhand, on 02 May 2011 - 01:53 AM, said:

26.  Added:  Tyrion pissing off the top of the wall

In the book, Tyrion never actually pissed off the edge of the world.  However, they seemed to feel the need to show that in the TV series.  Also, Jon did not ask Tyrion to help Bran, as he did in the book.  And they completely left out the whole "friendship" affirmation that preceded the final handshake between Jon and Tyrion.

The Bran part is probably linked to that Tyrion's saddle isn't very special in the show. It certainly seems possible that this part is taken out completely, but we'll see in the next episode.

The_Halfhand, on 02 May 2011 - 01:53 AM, said:

Also:  NO GHOST AGAIN!!!!  What is up with that?  And come to think of it, no sight of Mormont's crow either.  :-(

Ghost is in both episode 1 and 2, although very briefly. Mormont's crow seems to have been cut according to Ran.

All in all a good list of changes.

[A Redeemed Hound]

I loved the first 2 episodes.  Episode 3 kind of sucked.  I don't get it.  Why not have Dany command Viserys to walk? Such a huge leap of strength for her in the book.  It was a "hell yeah!" moment fo rme.  And why not give her a reason to wander off?  No Ghost is upsetting too.  The wolves seem to be given the back burner.  Which sucks.  I read that the 1st two episodes are rushed and then it finally gets a groove.  I feel opposite.  Episode 3 was way too rushed.  Stupidly so.  And the changes made were for no reason at all.  And just say Selmy's fricking name!  Why could none of them just say Ser Barristan Selmy?!?!?!

I love all things Tyrion and Jon Snow so far.  I wanted to stay on their story and forget the rest last night.  The Cersie/Joffrey scene was lame.  The Ned/Jaime scene was lame.  Cut those and add more meat to the true stories.

I don't know.  It's too much story to cram into 10 episodes I guess.  Should have been 12-15 episodes.  If next season does not have 12-15 episodes I don't see a third season happening.  Last night's show would have me at a loss if I did not read the books.  Episodes 1 and 2 were awesome.  What happened?  At least we have July for ADWD.  Nothing can beat a good book.  

[Xenophon]

Woodbyrne, on 02 May 2011 - 02:54 PM, said:

I loved the first 2 episodes.  Episode 3 kind of sucked.  I don't get it.  Why not have Dany command Viserys to walk? Such a huge leap of strength for her in the book.  It was a "hell yeah!" moment fo rme.  ...

I love all things Tyrion and Jon Snow so far.  I wanted to stay on their story and forget the rest last night.  The Cersie/Joffrey scene was lame.  The Ned/Jaime scene was lame.  Cut those and add more meat to the true stories.

I'm guessing they want to spread Dany's story arc out a bit.  When she orders her brother to walk, it's a major turn in their relationship whcih clearly inverts their former power dynamic.  Judging from the preview for ep. 4, DnD want to make that change more gradual.

Totally disagree about Cersei/Joffrey and Ned/Jaime. I thought they were excellent and really helped develop the characters, albeit not in the same way as in the book.  We get some sense that Jaime's motive for killing Aerys may have been mixed, and we see that he gets shot down when he tries to explain this to Ned.  Also we get Cersei vs. Ned as a parent, and a better sense of Cersei's worldview--royal power lets you shape how men speak, but has limited ability to change how men act.

[Dark Knight]

Quote

2.  Added:  Jamie meets Ned in the Throne Room


In the book, Ned goes straight to the room of the Small Council where we're first introduced to Littlefinger, Varys, and Grand Maester Pycel.  In the show, he first goes to the throne room where Jamie Lannister is waiting for him.

4.  Added:  Jamie's account of the death's of Ned's brother and father.

I believe this was internal monologue from Storm of Swords with Jamie remembering how ned's brother and father were killed by King Aerys, but they fit it into the scene with Ned and Jamie.

I actually really liked this scene and it really serves to clarify the history and build the tension between Ned and Jaime going into the Tyrion-kidnapping saga.

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6.  Added:  Cercei tending Joffrey's wounds

Seeing Cercei attend Joffrey's wounds, and Joffrey showing his insecurities, and unwillingness to marry Sansa.  Quite a different Joffrey from the one in the books.  Also, Cercei suggesting Joffrey fuck whores is entirely out of character for her.  And Cercei's advice to Joffrey about his conquest of the North was far too shrewd for her.

Didn't really connect o this one. It shows Joeff to be both more calculated and more sensitive then he is in the books, and overall was somewhat weird.

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9.  Changed:  Ned's talk of survival in the winter

No talk of the lone wolf dying while the pack survives.  Kind-of important symbolism completely left out of the show.

Yeah, It was very weird as I anticipated this line, but it never came.

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15.  Changed:  Jon's conversation with Donal Noye

In the book, the one-armed smith of the Night's Watch, Donel Noye, is the man who points out Jon's "bullying" of the recruits.  In the show, they gave these lines to Tyrion.  Also, in the book, it's Grenn's wrist Jon injured, not his nose, and the others were not present during Jon's lecture.

I actually didn't mind that Noye wasn't presented, and liked having Tyrion give that lecture to him.

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23. Removed:  Jon offering his help to Grenn and embarassing Thorne

Though we see Jon in the yard helping Grenn and Pyp, we don't see the transformation he goes through in the books heading into the feast hall to offer his help, and making fun of Ser Allister.

Really missed this one, as there is absolutely no tension building between Jon an Thorne which is present in the books and leads to some rather significant events. Actually no much of Thorne at all really...

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Also:  NO GHOST AGAIN!!!!  What is up with that?  And come to think of it, no sight of Mormont's crow either.  :-(

This really does start to annoy me. WE WANT GHOST! :-)

I didn't mind the other changes...