The Wise Man's Fear V [Spoilers and speculation within]

[Gaston de Foix]

Anyone wanna take a crack at some odd questions?

1. Meluan sends Kvothe a wooden ring. We learn from Bredon that it's a snub. We know very little about the letter. Anyway, was it still a summons, despite the insult?
   
   
2. We all take Ergen to be the ancient civilization of the Four Corners. And Ergen went to war against Faen for the insult of the theft of the moon. They still have joint custody of the moon and illicit border travel. So, at best, the war ended in cease-fire with aggressive immigration controls?
   
   
3. The Seven/Rhinta/Chandrian and the moon-stealer are apparently unspeakable names in both realms. The moon-stealer catalyzed Ergen aggression toward Faen. The Seven/Rhinta/Chandrian were apparently citizens of Ergen who, what's a good word for it, rebelled? It would seem they didn't switch sides if Felurian won't speak of them.
   
   
4. Does Mola know Auri? Or even who she is? Or think she might? Mola, Fela, and Devi say the women of the Arcanum can’t help but be a tight knit group. Mola, of all the students, has been at the University longer than anyone except Manet. Auri doesn’t run from her. And Mola keeps her expression carefully blank during their meeting.
   
   
5. "I have a device devoid of any sygaldry that seems to do nothing but consume angular momentum." It's probably just an example of the artifacts Kilvin has, but isn't that profoundly weird? How would it work? How would you know?
   

1. I don't think the wooden ring is a summons or at least intended as one. I do think it can be sent as an offer of service though. Kvothe might play fast and loose with Vintish customs by trying to send it to Meluan.

2. The Joint Custody of the Moon was because Iax failed, not because Ergen succeeded. And the Faen might have had good reason to keep the doors open, it is implied that many more Faen wander Earth than manlings go to Faen.

3.It's a mistake to think Felurian is on the side of the Shapers/Faen. She's clearly not. There are huge problems with the versions of the Shapers war, mine included that we have proposed and the fundamental reason is insufficient data.

4.This is one of the puzzling things about Auri- no one seems to know her, yet's quite young. She refers to Elodin as Master Elodin in the dinner party with Kvothe which suggests she does comply with university norms as such. I don't think Mola recognises her, she speaks of Auri in an almost clinically detached way that is at odds with how Devi or Mola speak of Fela. I think Auri doesn't run from Mola because Mola is a woman and Rothfuss' feminist side is showing.

5. What exactly is angular momentum? I have the sense that the secret magics that Kvothe is accused of having stolen are these devices...

[Mad Scientist]

4. Or she doesn't run because Kvothe is with Mola and tells her that she's a friend - and Mola does nothing to startle Auri.

5. and grinachu's question

In short: rotation of an object.

A little bit longer:

Angular momentum is, as energy or linear momentum a conserved quantity. That means that there is no change in its value over time in a self-contained system.

(It's calculated by L=r*m*v*sin(phi) with phi the angle between velocity (v) and distance from the zero point ( r) or vectorial: L=r x p=m*(r x v))

For example, if you spin a spintop, it would never stop spinning if not for friction, because the angular momentum is preserved (at least in our non-magical world; friction doesn't 'destroy' it, it goes into the air and the earth/table/whatever). It's the same thing that makes it possible to ride a bike without falling off.

So this device would probably stop/slow down rotation of an object. I guess it would be impossible to use the arrowcatch/Bloodless with this device nearby, at least not several times.

Though I have no real idea how it would work, since there wouldn't be much going on if angular momentum was consumed completely: you could only move in straight lines.

[What makes this a bit difficult is that angular momentum has no unique value, it all depends on where you set the zero point of your coordinate system. Only the change of the angular momentum is independent from that.

Sorry for the length, I'm studying physics.]

I guess that it's there mainly to show that this kind of magic (probably associated with naming/shaping) differs profoundly from sympathy/sygaldry: while they might bend the laws of thermodynamics a little, they are still bound to energy preservation (and probably to the preservation of angular and linear momentum, charge and such as well). This kind of magic, however, is not.

[dcon]

I thought I would share a BIG piece of news from the Doors of Stone thread. This is from Pat of Pat's fantasy hotlist. If everyone else has seen this already...sorry. I thought I would post it here in case you are interested. Warning though, it is potentially a big reveal of The Doors of Stone so do not click on it unless certain you want to know.

"Yes, the plan has always been that the first trilogy will be about Kvothe's backstory, while the second series will focus on the "real time" events alluded to in both TNotW and TWMF. And that's from Rothfuss, his editor Betsy Wollheim, our mutual agent Matt Bialer, and whoever has been in the loop from the start.

As far as the last volume being split, Betsy told me that won't happen. She says that Rothfuss is a meticulous planner and Kvothe's backstory will require a single book to be brought to a close."

Just some questions regarding your post:

Regarding that last bit, I'm confused. It will be a second series but only one book about Kvothe? Is it still a trilogy?

And is that Doors of Stone thread on this board? Thanks

[Gaston de Foix]

No it seems it'll be a trilogy as well. I read the interview that Pat has linked to in 2007 with Rothfuss. Pat asserts casually there will be two trilogies. Rothfuss doesn't correct him but doesn't reference the other trilogy in any obvious way, and to the extent he talks about having the story complete, he is only talking about the first three novels.

[Gaston de Foix]

4. Or she doesn't run because Kvothe is with Mola and tells her that she's a friend - and Mola does nothing to startle Auri.

5. and grinachu's question

In short: rotation of an object.

A little bit longer:

Angular momentum is, as energy or linear momentum a conserved quantity. That means that there is no change in its value over time in a self-contained system.

(It's calculated by L=r*m*v*sin(phi) with phi the angle between velocity (v) and distance from the zero point ( r) or vectorial: L=r x p=m*(r x v))

For example, if you spin a spintop, it would never stop spinning if not for friction, because the angular momentum is preserved (at least in our non-magical world; friction doesn't 'destroy' it, it goes into the air and the earth/table/whatever). It's the same thing that makes it possible to ride a bike without falling off.

So this device would probably stop/slow down rotation of an object. I guess it would be impossible to use the arrowcatch/Bloodless with this device nearby, at least not several times.

Though I have no real idea how it would work, since there wouldn't be much going on if angular momentum was consumed completely: you could only move in straight lines.

[What makes this a bit difficult is that angular momentum has no unique value, it all depends on where you set the zero point of your coordinate system. Only the change of the angular momentum is independent from that.

Sorry for the length, I'm studying physics.]

I guess that it's there mainly to show that this kind of magic (probably associated with naming/shaping) differs profoundly from sympathy/sygaldry: while they might bend the laws of thermodynamics a little, they are still bound to energy preservation (and probably to the preservation of angular and linear momentum, charge and such as well). This kind of magic, however, is not.

MadScientist having read your explanation twice, I still can't make sense of it. :rolleyes:

re-reading that scene in WMF my interest was detained by the device whose utility I could actually comprehend; the device that protects against kinetic and thaumic energy. It seems basically like armour.

I'm not sure whether it would protect against malfeasance, but if Kvothe has a big show down with Cinder and Cinder has some magical power to freeze his surroundings, Kvothe would be well protected by such a device. It's quite clear that of the Chandrian and other supernatural powers the main focus of the story is on Cinder, Haliax and the Amyr as well as Tehlu & Co. I would be surprised if we ran across any other Chandrian. This also explains why Kilvin didn't notice the change in temperature when Kvothe was pumping the bellows.

[two_by_two]

MadScientist having read your explanation twice, I still can't make sense of it. :rolleyes:

re-reading that scene in WMF my interest was detained by the device whose utility I could actually comprehend; the device that protects against kinetic and thaumic energy. It seems basically like armour.

I'm not sure whether it would protect against malfeasance, but if Kvothe has a big show down with Cinder and Cinder has some magical power to freeze his surroundings, Kvothe would be well protected by such a device. It's quite clear that of the Chandrian and other supernatural powers the main focus of the story is on Cinder, Haliax and the Amyr as well as Tehlu & Co. I would be surprised if we ran across any other Chandrian. This also explains why Kilvin didn't notice the change in temperature when Kvothe was pumping the bellows.

For what it's worth, we can definitely conclude that most of the Chandrian still survive at the time of the frame story. From the frame conversation immediately after Kvothe learns the Chandrian's names from the Adem:

Kvothe frowned. "I have slept my thousand nights and traveled several thousand miles since then, Bast. It is safe to say them once. With all the hell that's breaking loose in the world these days you can believe people are telling old stories more often. If the Chandrian are listening for names, I don't doubt they've got a slow din of whispering from Arueh to the Circle Sea." (WMF US hardcover, pg 846)

So at least some of the Chandrian are still alive.

[williamjm]

MadScientist having read your explanation twice, I still can't make sense of it. :rolleyes:

To be fair, I would have disappointed if someone with the name MadScientist had given a straightforward answer to a physics question ;)

A simpler explanation : Kilvin means the object keeps rotating constantly even though there's nothing apparently keeping it rotating.

[thistlepong]

^{*I've hidden the earlier parts behind spoilers in case folk are interested in another look.}

Part I: summary - You can't get a king to Imre, so you can't kill a king in Imre.

Chronicles and Cobblestones: Part I

Taking Regicides – It’s Hard to Kill a King in Imre

“You’re Kvothe.”

“Kvothe the Bloodless”

“I saw the place in Imre where you killed him. By the fountain. The cobblestones are all shathered.” He frowned and concentrated on the word. “

Shattered.

They say no one can mend them.”

-NotW ch. 3 (kl740)

So says the sandy haired well dressed traveler. He doesn't recognize Kvothe Kingkiller. The individual referenced is unlikely to be the titular king or any king.

There's no monarch within hundreds of miles of Imre. The Commonwealth has no king. It has been pointed out that Maershon Lerand Alveron cannot be any of the mysterious players because his court responsibilities don't allow long voyages. This holds doubly true for the High King of Modeg and the kings of Atur, Vintas, and the Shald. The rulers of the Small Kingdoms may travel, but they should be as obscure and irrelevant to the story as they are in the story. In other words, it’s unlikely a regicide will occur in Imre due to a dearth of targets.

Kvothe's trial is an unlikely referent. Two full written accounts exist along with multiple witnesses and Kvothe's own version mentions no shattered stones. That Ambrose Jakis could both be in Imre and be king requires dreadful convenience. Eleven peers stand between him and the throne, including his father, all of whom must die without him being summoned back to Vintas. The news of his coronation in absentia or impending inheritance needs to reach him at the University concurrent with the mortal conclusion of his rivalry with Kvothe. Extremely improbable.

“It wasn’t called Folly, either. It was Kaysera, the poet-killer.”

-WMFhc p. 21 (kl537)

This should be obvious, but the blade that kills a king is probably not the poet killer unless it was so first.

Part II summary - It's Pat's job to break your heart, WWJWD?

Chronicles and Cobblestones: Part II

I’ve Got a Feelin’ – Painful Memories

The following quotes, in order, made me wonder just how bad things where.

“To the King?” Aaron Said.

“No,” the innkeeper said, his voice surprisingly firm. He held up his glass. “To old friends who deserved better than they got.”

-WMF hc p.141 (kl2935)

That night, and for many to come, Wil and Sim took turns watching over me as I slept, keeping me safe with their Alar. They were the best sort of friends. The sort everyone hopes for but no one deserves, least of all me.

-WMF hc p. 198 (kl4128)

I saw Fela turn her head to look at Simmon, almost as if she were surprised to see him sitting there.

No, it was almost as if up until that point, he’d just been occupying space around her, like a piece of furniture. But this time when she looked at him, she took all of him in. His sandy hair, the line of his jaw, the span of his shoulders beneath his shirt. This time when she looked, she actually

saw

him.

Let me say this. It was worth the the whole awful, irritating time spent searching the Archives just to watch that moment happen. It was worth the blood and the fear of death to see her fall in love with him. Just a little. Just the first faint breath of love, so light she probably didn’t notice it herself. It wasn’t dramatic, like some bolt of lightning with a crack of thunder following. It was more like when flint strikes steel and the spark fades almost too fast for you to see. But still, you know it’s there, down where you can’t see, kindling.

-WMF hc p. 225 (kl4665)

It read like three strokes paring the range of possibilities down to a single individual. Maybe everyone he’s ever known is dead. Maybe he feels responsible for many lives. But there’s a special sorrow for one in particular.

Rothfuss has said, “That’s my job as an author. It’s to sometimes break your heart. Joss Whedon knows this.” It appears in print and was repeated at the signing I attended. You can hear it for yourself in Sword and Laser Podcast #54 (@28:45.)

Understanding what he means, of course, depends on familiarity with Whedon’s work. The emotional stakes are always high, but rarely manipulative. The worst kind of tragedy in the story thus far is the fatal end to a perfect friendship. Paired, they pound at you.

Part III summary - Sim's a poet, Ambrose tries to write poetry

Chronicles and Cobblestones: Part III

Limpin' ain't poesy - Verses versus

Strictly reading, Sim’s poetry gets more page time than Ambrose’s. Ambrose is known for writing poetry. Sim is a poet.

Ambrose, heir to a barony in Southern Vintas, attended the University by choice and worked his way to Re’lar. We know he’s a scriv who also studies alchemy and presumably rhetoric as well. He writes verse few, if any, care for. He struggles toward sprung rhythms and near rhymes. We’re shown one line of poetry and a page bearing several corrections and edits. He failed to win his talent pipes at the Eolian. He wants to write, but has no skill.

Simmon, the fourth son of the Duke of Dalonir in Northern Atur, was sent to the University in hopes he would become a diplomat. He discovered poetry and alchemy and entered the Arcanum. His first term as El’ir, Puppet read him some Eld Vintic poetry during their first meeting. For the next three terms he studied it under Chancellor Herma. At this point he can rattle off verse in the form carelessly; it’s presented in full twice. He’s accounted talented by those around him, even Kvothe.

Chronicles and Cobblestones: Part IV

When Your Bright Sword Turns to Rust – Trust Issues

I left the courtyard at a dead run.

____________________

I pounded frantically on the door,

out of breath from running up to the

third floor of Mews. “Simmon!” I

shouted. “Open this door and talk

to me.

Kvothe is wary. Kvothe is cynical. It’s more than just the unspeakable secret he carries, that his troupe was killed by the Chandrian. It’s more than memories of his hardscrabble existence on the streets of Tarbean. He holds his emotions close, hiding behind characters, stories, a reputation. In his vulnerable moments he’ll relax, admit to feeling, let something slip.

But it’s different with Simmon. Simmon, who can’t be trusted with his secrets, nonetheless has his trust, his affection.

Simmon could always make me smile, no matter what was going on. (NotW c40 kl 5283)

“I love you, Sim,” I said earnestly. “Sometimes I think you’re the only honest person I know.”

He looked me over. “You’re drunk.”

“No, it’s the truth. You’re a good person. Better than I’ll ever be.”

(NotW c87 kl 12542)

"Of course. I need some sort of behavioral touchstone. You're going to need to be my compass beacuse you still ahve your filters in place."

"I was thinking the same thing," he said. "So you'll trust me?"

I nodded.

(WMF c7 kl 1520)

The amazing truth is that Kvothe is otherwise explicitly distrustful. Despite his inability to keep quiet, Simmon is involved in all of his shenanigans. He turns to Sim in the throes of the plum bob. He listens to Simmon and takes a term away. Simmon is the first person he seeks out when he returns. Across the Four Corners, folk come to trust Kvothe, but Simmon is the only person he trusts. That's important. He can't be betrayed by someone until he has faith in him.

I have trouped, traveled, loved, lost, trusted, and been betrayed.

[Kylar Stern]

A few speculations of my own. (And one point I'm still confused on).

1. Kaysera could be transliteration of Caesura. Half of Kvothe's legend is BS so it could be no surprise that facts are misconstrued as the stories travel the land.

2. Also the reason he has Folly behind the bar is because he sends Caesura back to the Adem in an effort to fake his death/concrete his disappearance.

And the point that needs clarification:

On a previous page I asked if Telhu the God and Telhu the first angel are the same? Is this true? And if so, does it seem he becomes a God or just still the leading angel? :wacko:

[Gaston de Foix]

Kvothe is wary. Kvothe is cynical. It’s more than just the unspeakable secret he carries, that his troupe was killed by the Chandrian. It’s more than memories of his hardscrabble existence on the streets of Tarbean. He holds his emotions close, hiding behind characters, stories, a reputation. In his vulnerable moments he’ll relax, admit to feeling, let something slip.

But it’s different with Simmon. Simmon, who can’t be trusted with his secrets, nonetheless has his trust, his affection.

The amazing truth is that Kvothe is otherwise explicitly distrustful. Despite his inability to keep quiet, Simmon is involved in all of his shenanigans. He turns to Sim in the throes of the plum bob. He listens to Simmon and takes a term away. Simmon is the first person he seeks out when he returns. Across the Four Corners, folk come to trust Kvothe, but Simmon is the only person he trusts. That's important. He can't be betrayed by someone until he has faith in him.

I have trouped, traveled, loved, lost, trusted, and been betrayed.

ok- I now see more clearly where you are going with this.

I had two other candidates for the betrayal (1)Denna (no shit!), and (2)Auri and (3) Bredon=Master Ash. With Denna it's an open question whether he trusts her; certainly by the end of WMF they are getting closer but Kvothe can't confide in her.

With Auri, Kvothe does actually trust her. She's the only one he shares the pain of loss of his parents with. She knows his interest in the Amyr. She is a potential candidate for betrayal.

I have to be honest; I think the leading candidates for betrayal are Bredon and Denna. One of the interesting features I noticed when I was re-reading WMF was that Denna had actually been doing a lot of research into old genealogies; the implication is fairly obvious; Bredon is looking for a son who brings the blood as mentioned in the Lackless rhyme. Whether he knows that Kvothe is a Lackless descendant, I'm not sure; clearly there may be others out there. But he's searching for it with a view to opening the Lackless door. Given the hints that he some link with the Chandrian, I think the opening of this door may well be a motive for them as well.

[unJon]

For those afraid to click the spoiler, I will say that in my opinion it is not really a spoiler. Certainly, it is nothing about the plot of Doors of Stone. Rather, it concerns the speculation regarding a second, present-day trilogy of Kvothe.

[thistlepong]

For those afraid to click the spoiler, I will say that in my opinion it is not really a spoiler. Certainly, it is nothing about the plot of Doors of Stone. Rather, it concerns the speculation regarding a second, present-day trilogy of Kvothe.

Agreed. The spoiler gives little away. Pat’s opacity since 2007 leaves quite a bit open to interpretation.

So this device would probably stop/slow down rotation of an object. I guess it would be impossible to use the arrowcatch/Bloodless with this device nearby, at least not several times.

Though I have no real idea how it would work, since there wouldn't be much going on if angular momentum was consumed completely: you could only move in straight lines.

Thanks, Mad Scientist. So yah, a little weird, a little hard to quantify. I wonder what, if anything, Pat has in mind for it.

On a previous page I asked if Telhu the God and Telhu the first angel are the same? Is this true? And if so, does it seem he becomes a God or just still the leading angel? :wacko:

Kylar Stern, Tehlu before Aleph and Tehlu who was Menda reference the same character. How much of either story is capital T true is unknown. Either Tehlu & Pals were empowered enough to make The Menda story possible, with Tehlu setting himself up as a God (like MiracleMan.) Or the Tehlin Church crafted a story based on the events at the end of “Lanre Turned.”

I had two other candidates for the betrayal (1)Denna (no shit!), and (2)Auri and (3) Bredon=Master Ash. With Denna it's an open question whether he trusts her; certainly by the end of WMF they are getting closer but Kvothe can't confide in her.

I gave Auri a chance in that regard. At the end of a bad trip, Kvothe misses his mom. That’s Auri’s privileged information. From his perspective, even telling her that was equivalent to hiding a note beneath the University. No one will ever know. That having been said, the two of them shared perhaps the most touching moments in WMF.

Kvothe doesn’t trust Denna. He won’t even break the surface tension of their relationship. She knows he believes the Chandrian are real, if she doesn’t think he’s crazy. Perhaps Kellus is right, though, and the doubter easily becomes the fanatic.

Kvothe doesn’t trust Bredon. He needs him in Severen to navigate unfamiliar waters. Bredon knows the contents of Meluan’s letter. Again, though, Kvothe confided little and learned much. Bredon certainly learned, or confirmed, a great deal about him. But that’s mostly because Kvothe is careless.

3.It's a mistake to think Felurian is on the side of the Shapers/Faen. She's clearly not. There are huge problems with the versions of the Shapers war, mine included that we have proposed and the fundamental reason is insufficient data.

I don't know about clearly. Care to elaborate? It's interesting what we take for granted as obvious and what we doubt. If you wanna be fully skeptical, assuming Iax is the moon-stealer is a logical fallacy.

"things that are more than men"- implies a death of a rhinta

This is the face of a man who has killed an angel. (Chronicler)

"But there are bad things in the world. Old things in the shape of men. And there are a handful worse than all the rest. They walk the world freely and do terrible things." (Shehyn)

Seems like it implies the death of one of Tehlu's gang... Shehyn's clearly biased against the handful, but there's no legend of Kvothe killing a demon.

[ShanRawr]

The amazing truth is that Kvothe is otherwise explicitly distrustful. Despite his inability to keep quiet, Simmon is involved in all of his shenanigans. He turns to Sim in the throes of the plum bob. He listens to Simmon and takes a term away. Simmon is the first person he seeks out when he returns. Across the Four Corners, folk come to trust Kvothe, but Simmon is the only person he trusts. That's important. He can't be betrayed by someone until he has faith in him.

I have trouped, traveled, loved, lost, trusted, and been betrayed.

Good argument. I think with the information available to us now, you are probably right. A betrayal by Simmon would currently be the most devastating.

I also consider Elodin and Auri as potential candidates.

[two_by_two]

Chronicles and Cobblestones: Part IV

When Your Bright Sword Turns to Rust – Trust Issues

I left the courtyard at a dead run.

____________________

I pounded frantically on the door,

out of breath from running up to the

third floor of Mews. "Simmon!" I

shouted. "Open this door and talk

to me.

Kvothe is wary. Kvothe is cynical. It's more than just the unspeakable secret he carries, that his troupe was killed by the Chandrian. It's more than memories of his hardscrabble existence on the streets of Tarbean. He holds his emotions close, hiding behind characters, stories, a reputation. In his vulnerable moments he'll relax, admit to feeling, let something slip.

But it's different with Simmon. Simmon, who can't be trusted with his secrets, nonetheless has his trust, his affection.

The amazing truth is that Kvothe is otherwise explicitly distrustful. Despite his inability to keep quiet, Simmon is involved in all of his shenanigans. He turns to Sim in the throes of the plum bob. He listens to Simmon and takes a term away. Simmon is the first person he seeks out when he returns. Across the Four Corners, folk come to trust Kvothe, but Simmon is the only person he trusts. That's important. He can't be betrayed by someone until he has faith in him.

I have trouped, traveled, loved, lost, trusted, and been betrayed.

Damn, thistle. That would be heartbreaking. And we have been warned repeatedly about "the anger of a gentle man." No one fits that description better than Sim.

A few speculations of my own. (And one point I'm still confused on).

1. Kaysera could be transliteration of Caesura. Half of Kvothe's legend is BS so it could be no surprise that facts are misconstrued as the stories travel the land.

2. Also the reason he has Folly behind the bar is because he sends Caesura back to the Adem in an effort to fake his death/concrete his disappearance.

And the point that needs clarification:

On a previous page I asked if Telhu the God and Telhu the first angel are the same? Is this true? And if so, does it seem he becomes a God or just still the leading angel? :wacko:

I think it's pretty obvious that Kaysera is a bastardization of Caesura. The question is, where did he get Folly? I think this was discussed a bit further up in the forum, but I'm not sure if we went into detail.

[Kzad-bhat]

Damn, thistle. That would be heartbreaking. And we have been warned repeatedly about "the anger of a gentle man." No one fits that description better than Sim.

I think it's pretty obvious that Kaysera is a bastardization of Caesura. The question is, where did he get Folly? I think this was discussed a bit further up in the forum, but I'm not sure if we went into detail.

Sim betraying Kvothe would be heartbreaking indeed... not really sure who betrays him, the list is fairly long in my mind... Ben and Devi are two people that should be added to the list. He also has about 40 chapters to trust someone completely new and different.

On the Folly front, he replicated the Lackless box (in some ways) so it's possible he replicated Kaysera as well with a sword of his own making. Or made/had one made of a specific material to kill someone special...

He clearly has some talent at shaping things... assuming the rings are a reality he makes those, and he makes the locked box in his bedroom. I'd guess Folly was his idea, and even when making it he thought whatever purpose he was lending it to was ill-advised, thus the name "Folly"

[two_by_two]

On the Folly front, he replicated the Lackless box (in some ways) so it's possible he replicated Kaysera as well with a sword of his own making. Or made/had one made of a specific material to kill someone special...

He clearly has some talent at shaping things... assuming the rings are a reality he makes those, and he makes the locked box in his bedroom. I'd guess Folly was his idea, and even when making it he thought whatever purpose he was lending it to was ill-advised, thus the name "Folly"

That makes sense. I hadn't thought of the reasoning for the name Folly. We do know that names are important in this series.

[GM Pierce]

That makes sense. I hadn't thought of the reasoning for the name Folly. We do know that names are important in this series.

It may have been mentioned here recently, but I don't recall it.

Ben's inscription on the inside cover of "Rhetoric and Logic" was:

Kvothe,

Defend yourself well at the University, Make me proud.

Remember your fathers song. Beware of folly.

Your friend, Abenthy.

Whatever additional meaning there is here is rather subtle.

[two_by_two]

It may have been mentioned here recently, but I don't recall it.

Ben's inscription on the inside cover of "Rhetoric and Logic" was:

Kvothe,

Defend yourself well at the University, Make me proud.

Remember your fathers song. Beware of folly.

Your friend, Abenthy.

Whatever additional meaning there is here is rather subtle.

I don't recall if we've mentioned that in reference to the sword. I also noticed that, though. Perhaps Kvothe does something he regrets at the University regarding the sword, is reminded of Ben's inscription, and names the sword after that?

[GM Pierce]

I don't recall if we've mentioned that in reference to the sword. I also noticed that, though. Perhaps Kvothe does something he regrets at the University regarding the sword, is reminded of Ben's inscription, and names the sword after that?

That's pretty much what I was thinking, but there is no reason why it had to happen while he was still at the University.

When I looked up the quotation, the sentence "Remember your fathers song" also caught my attention because at the time the inscription was made neither Kvothe nor Ben had actually heard the song. All of this might mean something, or it might mean nothing.

[two_by_two]

That's pretty much what I was thinking, but there is no reason why it had to happen while he was still at the University.

When I looked up the quotation, the sentence "Remember your fathers song" also caught my attention because at the time the inscription was made neither Kvothe nor Ben had actually heard the song. All of this might mean something, or it might mean nothing.

I thought it being at the University might remind him of the inscription more than if it took place somewhere else, but no, there is no need for it to happen there.

I think Ben may have heard the song, but I don't remember for sure.