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Is Rhaegar alive?!?


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427 replies to this topic

#41 theLaughingTree

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 02:49 PM

This theory made for a very fun and interesting read but I think the below reference rests this case:


I really love all of the thought that went into this theory, and it would have made for a very plausible one...if we didn't already have an explanation from GRRM about what happened to Rhaegar's body.

See this:
http://www.westeros....com_Forum_Chat/



#42 WorldWarRob

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 02:54 PM

All in all, I think there's quite a few holes in the theory, but interesting nonetheless.



Pretty much this. I found it very entertaining, it adds a lot to the PtwP story. But I just don't see this being real. Robert was a lush and a fool (for the most part), but he damn well killed Rhaegar Targaryen.

#43 Bradley

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 06:16 PM

Rodrik the Reader likes to read...maybe he's Rhaegar Targaryen!

#44 Xcorpyo001

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:07 AM

Rodrik the Reader likes to read...maybe he's Rhaegar Targaryen!


Many like to read, Tyrion included.
But only Big Brother(fighter in the battle of the Trident) washed ashore in the same place as Rhaegar's rubies.
I find it strange that the guy can perform miracles(healing hands). From his story he is a poor no name knight who fought on the battle of the Tridend. So a fodder knight is wounded/dies at the Trident, is found by some monks and all of the sudden he is the reincarnation of Jesus.
Doesn't anyone finds it strange? He said that he only trained as a knight, so where this almighty power comes from? He's not a maester, not a red priest, servand of R'hlorr, etc.

#45 Dragonfish

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:14 AM

Many like to read, Tyrion included.
But only Big Brother(fighter in the battle of the Trident) washed ashore in the same place as Rhaegar's rubies.
I find it strange that the guy can perform miracles(healing hands). From his story he is a poor no name knight who fought on the battle of the Tridend. So a fodder knight is wounded/dies at the Trident, is found by some monks and all of the sudden he is the reincarnation of Jesus.
Doesn't anyone finds it strange? He said that he only trained as a knight, so where this almighty power comes from? He's not a maester, not a red priest, servand of R'hlorr, etc.


It's been a while since I've read AFFC, but does the Elder Brother actually perform any miracles? My recollection says "no".

#46 Rockroi

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:26 AM

There is no evidence, at all, in the books that Rhaegar Targaryen is alive. None.

There is no justifiable reason why the Crown Prince of a Kingdom would allow his army to be routed, father slain, brother, mother and sister to live their last days on the run, and never even attempt to get in touch with any of them.

There is no reason why Rhaegar would not try to go south and meet up with Dayne, and/or Lyanna.

Rhaegar is remembered as a man of honor and duty. How does Rhaegar live up to these principles by hiding all these years?

How does it make any sense in the story- a story made up of largely realistic events -to have Rhaegar return?

Wouldn't Robert, Ned, Jon Arryn, etc have a vested interest in assuring that Rhaegar was dead? To say nothing of the loyalists?

How could he have stayed missing for 15+ years?

How come - if Rhaegar's body was never found -have we NEVER HEARD of anyone say anything along the lines of "His body was never found..." (cue spooky music)

So, its a theory that makes no sense in the story, that makes no sense for the character, makes no sense in the theme of the story, is unrealistic, is not in any way an accurate depiction of the character, and has absolutely zero support in the books or any tangential evidence possible.

But other than that its a fine theory...

#47 Alytha

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:51 AM

Never let anything as boring as facts get into the way of a good conspiracy theory /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

(I'm already looking forward to all the new theories sparked by the new book when it's out)

#48 Xcorpyo001

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 02:42 AM

Never let anything as boring as facts get into the way of a good conspiracy theory /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' /> So Spake Alytha
No new images?!? /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#49 Alytha

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 06:51 AM

Thanks /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Some more pics by the same artist: link

#50 Gregor Barksdale

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 07:27 AM

lol, how did I missed that????
He probably tried to rape Lyanna and she cut his penis off with her own version of Needle...it is not known.
He was so ashamed that he just run from Westeros and came back as Varys.
He must know ho to create clones of himself though, because Varys was his father's councilor even when Rhaegar was alive, but lets not dwell on that. Good theory /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Mmmh. Yeah. Maybe you're right.

Reworking theory...



Rhaegar and Jaqen H'ghar are the same "person", it is known.

#51 Xcorpyo001

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:36 AM

Mmmh. Yeah. Maybe you're right.

Reworking theory...



Rhaegar and Jaqen H'ghar are the same "person", it is known.


Jaqen H'ghar can't be Varys and Rhaegar at the same time, so no.
Or can he? /idea.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':idea:' />

@Alytha Thank you for providing that link. Those were some really funny images. They really made my day /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Edited by Xcorpyo001, 06 May 2011 - 09:42 AM.


#52 oba

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:41 AM

Jaqen H'ghar can't be Varys and Rhaegar at the same time, so no.
Or can he? /idea.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':idea:' />


We've never seen all three of them or even any two of them together . . .

Edited by oba, 06 May 2011 - 09:41 AM.


#53 Axon

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 10:34 AM

Aegon is Young Griff. It is known. Valar Sightgulus.

#54 Gregor Barksdale

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:24 AM

Jaqen H'ghar can't be Varys and Rhaegar at the same time, so no.
Or can he? /idea.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':idea:' />

Rhaegar is not Varys, Rhaegar is just Jaqen H'ghar.

It's Syrio Forel who is the same person as Varys.

#55 Quoth

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:32 AM

How could he have stayed missing for 15+ years?


OBL stayed missing for close to ten years and we had Predator drones. Robert's crew had trained ravens. Entirely possible.

Never let anything as boring as facts get into the way of a good conspiracy theory /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />


Precisely. Well said. /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

#56 Xcorpyo001

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 03:44 PM

It's Syrio Forel who is the same person as Varys.


I was going to say ney and continue with a little joke or something, but this line really got me thinking.
Maybe Varys was so bored being so much ahead of the others in the game of thrones that he started training Arya, just for the lols of it.
He was sharpening his undercover skills, disguising mostly, o in a way, he was training as well, also having an unwilingly sparring partner that wouldn't attract to much attention.
In the tunnels, Arya mentions the fact that the guy who talks with Illirio has a very familiar face, but that will tell us that either Varys is a very bad teacher, or Arya a very poor student. After all, the most important lesson Syrio drilled in Arya was for her to see the unseen, to pay close attention to details.
So for her to not recognize her teacher in a disguise when Tyrion's whore could do that just fine will be very unlikely.
Anyway, any new theory is a good one here.

#57 Timekeeper

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 08:33 PM

I think it's quite obvious what happened. Mashadar killed Rhaegar before he could Travel away. Rhaegar is toast!

/leaving.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':leaving:' />

#58 Lannes

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 10:31 PM

Eaxtly /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
Party!


Oh my...that's good. /thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsup:' />

#59 dolorouseddwasright

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 09:52 PM

Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.


Nuff said.

#60 Viking

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:59 PM

I'd like to suggest an alternative for Rhaegar being alive. I'd like to start, not with Rhaegar himself, or some imposter/confederate donning his armor at the trident and dying in his place. I'd like to start with the three heads of the Dragon. Assuming R+L=J is true then I'd like to suggest some common features for Jon and Dany.

- Mother dead in childbirth.
- Birth happens during a Baratheon attack.
- Life saved by honourable man.
- Raised in exile.
- Mentored by a Mormont.
- Special relationship with house Symbol.
- Earning great success on own merit from nothing.

I'd like to suggest that the son of Mance Rayder is ready to fill all these steps as well.

- Mother dead in childbirth.
- Birth happens during a Baratheon attack.
- Life saved by Jon Snow.
- To be raised in exile from homeland.
- Still no Mormont mentor
- What is the free folk Symbol?
- No great deeds yet

Mance Rayders son fits the pattern set by Dany and Jon when they were at the same stage.

Then there is the issue of Mance and Rhaegar, they don't look similar. Rhaegar has a striking look with silver hair and purple eyes, while Mance is described as looking unremarkable. However, I think this might either be explained by living 15 years north of the wall or a use for the plot device of the Faceless men introduced with Jaqen H'ghar.

The other issue is the origin story given to Mance Rayder by the Halfhand. The Halfhand does say that Mance was the best Raider they ever had, which fits with the stories of Rhaegars ability to excel at anything he did. The Halfhand might have been mis-informed by Mance or even Lord Commander Mormont (in collusion with Jorah and even Ned Stark to preserve the targaryen blood).

Then there is the personality. Both Mance and Rhaegar are of the same age, both lovers of music and lore rather than great fighters, both jacks of all trades.

The babe is still too young to have done anything, but why is the babe in the book at all? To provide a source of kings blood at the wall? If the kid has kings blood, then so does mance, so this seems a hollow plot point. To provide Sam with a bastard to get gilly to the south? Gilly's own kid serves this purpose just as well.

Naturally this is just speculation. But if you find Maege Mormont or Jorah Mormont anywhere close to the Tarley Holdfast of Horn Hill where Gilly and Mance's heir are then you can take this idea more seriously.