[Book Spoilers] EP104 Discussion

[KarentheUnicorn]

There was also a neat shout-out to the existence of faceless men by Doreah. (the bathtub scene)

I forgot about the bathtub scene, or maybe it's more I'm trying to forget the bathtub scene.

it was just kinda...meh, two people getting it on in the bathtub...it just didn't come across as all that great as far as sex/love scenes go.

I wasn't impressed with Mr. Dragon because the whole thing seemed more like a info dump and to make it interesting they made it a sex scene.

[Été]

I LOVED the foreshadowing of that scene for Season 2. I don't think we got foreshadowing of the Faceless Men in the first book did we? I remember the Faceless Men being mentioned as awesome assassins in book 1, but I didn't remember their nifty face changing abilities being mentioned until we saw it.

It's also setup for next week, when Robert wants to hire them to take out Dany.

[Xenophon]

Ok, maybe I'm not understanding how feudalism worked/works either in RL or in Westeros, but did anyone else find it odd that Tyrion had to bribe someone to get a room at the inn? He's the King's brother-in-law (and the heir apparent/presumptive--I never remember which is which--to Casterly Rock), shouldn't the inn-keeper being throwing people out the moment he steps in the door?

[Aganerral]

Ok, maybe I'm not understanding how feudalism worked/works either in RL or in Westeros, but did anyone else find it odd that Tyrion had to bribe someone to get a room at the inn? He's the King's brother-in-law (and the heir apparent/presumptive--I never remember which is which--to Casterly Rock), shouldn't the inn-keeper being throwing people out the moment he steps in the door?

Tyrion probably could have pulled rank and forced his way into a room, but unless he did that, I don't think anyone would be strictly obligated to cede their room to him. No one there is directly tied to the Lannisters, and the throne is in the Baratheons' name. So despite being an important person, he doesn't really any sort of direct rule over the people there.

[Maltaran]

Ok, maybe I'm not understanding how feudalism worked/works either in RL or in Westeros, but did anyone else find it odd that Tyrion had to bribe someone to get a room at the inn? He's the King's brother-in-law (and the heir apparent/presumptive--I never remember which is which--to Casterly Rock), shouldn't the inn-keeper being throwing people out the moment he steps in the door?

[pedant mode]Tyrion would be heir apparent, as there's no possibility of him being displaced by a birth higher up the line of succession. An heir presumptive would be someone like the brother of a childless lord - as things are currently he is the heir, but would be displaced if the lord has a son.[/pedant mode]

Of course, he's never publically acknowledged as the heir, because Tywin hates him and wants Jaime to inherit.

And a nice geek shout out when Viserys was naming the dragons, one of them was Vermithrax

[End of Disc One]

Tyrion probably could have pulled rank and forced his way into a room, but unless he did that, I don't think anyone would be strictly obligated to cede their room to him. No one there is directly tied to the Lannisters, and the throne is in the Baratheons' name. So despite being an important person, he doesn't really any sort of direct rule over the people there.

Yeah if Tyrion had enough men with him he could have threatened someone to give up their room, but he wouldn't do that. The king could order someone to give up their room, but it wouldn't be good practice. The only person I can think of who would do that is Joffrey.

[herkles]

yea, it doesn't seem to be like tyrion to just pull rank when he has other methods at his disposal.

[Arya The Assassin]

No, that's his natural hair colour. He's mentioned before that they thought about dying it for the show, but they liked the way it looked, so they kept it.

Hmm, ok, he had brown hair in the photos I saw (here's one example). I suppose his hair is dyed brown in those photos or perhaps they were shot many years ago?

[NW Deserter]

yea, it doesn't seem to be like tyrion to just pull rank when he has other methods at his disposal.

But he uses his Lannister name to get things...Mord, mountain clans, etc.

[DurararaFTW]

- Spoiler: There will be a dramatic change in [Hohor's] appearance halfway through the series that will entail a change in his make-up.

Uh... I'm totally blanking on what this is referring to honestly, can anyone refresh my memory?

[Abaddon]

Oh, and Hodor's way more older and overweight than I imagined him - I can't exactly see Osha ogling the TV version's naked body.

I never got the impression Osha was ogling Hodor because he had some sort of Adonis body, rather that he is in fact a, ahm, "giant". No idea if HBO is going to feel the need to show us that or not :blushing:

[Ran]

I think those were taken a few years apart. My understanding is that Kristian (who's 35-36) went gray quite recently, and quite quickly.

[Arya The Assassin]

I think those were taken a few years apart. My understanding is that Kristian (who's 35-36) went gray quite recently, and quite quickly.

Yeah, I guess you're right. Looking forward to his 'transformation' later in the season, though :)

[End of Disc One]

- Spoiler: There will be a dramatic change in [Hohor's] appearance halfway through the series that will entail a change in his make-up.

Uh... I'm totally blanking on what this is referring to honestly, can anyone refresh my memory?

Yeah I have no idea what they're talking about either.

[Abaddon]

What you are seeing is similar to the near-perfect LOTR film adaptations being dismissed by nerds for not having the pointless Tom Bombadil (sp?) scene in it

Okay, let's be honest here. Excising the Bombadil sequence was common sense and very correctly done. IMHO if Tolkien had an editor it would have been removed from the book, with maybe a very truncated sequence remaining, with the large majority of it moved to an appendix. It really sucks the life out of the narrative even in the books and in a 2 hour (okay 3 hour) movie would have been impossible to include at any rate. And it's completely inconsequential to the story except as background coloration.

That said, calling the LOTR movies "near-perfect" is ignoring the travesty of what they did with Elrond and Arwin. It'd be like taking the Blackfish and having him come in and become a major military player, also making him totally pissy and yelling all the time. And it'd be like taking some random bit-player female character and turning her into a major character around which the central storyline revolves. We're talking major surgery here and not for the better. If they do something that extreme to ASOFI, I think everyone around here will scream bloody murder, and rightfully so.

SO FAR, this adaptation has been VERY faithful to the books, much more so than the later LOTR movies (really ROTK was the worst offender).

(As an aside, the LOTR movies, plot/character surgery aside, are stunning and are visually and aurally far more than I ever could have expected from anything based on the books. Lavish, stunning, etc are all faint praise for what they were able to accomplish). Game of Thrones naturally falls a little short here due to having half the budget for 3-4 times the runtime, but that's to be expected and it still looks amazing to me).

[ser_nerdick]

Geez I don't know. I keep hoping each successive episode makes me forget my issues with the previous ones, but so far I don't see a lot of improvement.

In this episode:

- I agree with others that the tourney was way, way too small. I've seen bigger gatherings at quiznos. This was supposed to be a major event for the realm.

- A lot of added scenes not in the book, some good (Ned's walk in the park with Littlefinger), some not so good (Ned and Cersei, Jon and Sam)

- I pictured Sam as being much fatter. It doesn't help that Jon has such a fat face; you need a real blimp to seem obese compared to him

- I'm really not impressed with Cersei. IMO the way Headey plays the character, Cersei has ZERO sex appeal, and it's not just a matter of her physical features. She seems to have the cold, calculating bitchy part down, just not the sexiness. And why is Cersei always covered in some enormous quilt-looking thing? In the North it made sense because she could be cold. In palm-tree lined Kings Landing, not so much.

The sets are starting to bother me. Everything seems so... small. I don't think it's just a book/show comparison either. I'm watching Rome for the first time and I don't get the same cramped sound-stagey feeling at all with Rome.

It's good to see that the show is generally being received well by folks though.

[edit] Oh, and Hodor is way too old.

[Xenophon]

[pedant mode]Tyrion would be heir apparent, as there's no possibility of him being displaced by a birth higher up the line of succession. An heir presumptive would be someone like the brother of a childless lord - as things are currently he is the heir, but would be displaced if the lord has a son.[/pedant mode]

Thanks Maltaran!

Ok, so is the general view that Tyrion just wanted to be polite by bribing someone rather than pulling rank? I'm still a little surprised though, that everyone just remains seated and eating when the son of a Great Lord walks into the room. This seems far more egalitarian than I would expect given the political structure, and how everyone was bowing and scraping to Robert when he arrived at Winterfell.

[NW Deserter]

Was rewatching some scenes and I saw an awesome line in the Jaime/Jory exchange that I missed before:

Jaime: "I saw the youngest of the Greyjoy lads at Winterfell. Like seeing a shark on a mountaintop."

Jory: "Theon. He's a good lad."

Jaime: "I doubt it."

[Abaddon]

Ok, so is the general view that Tyrion just wanted to be polite by bribing someone rather than pulling rank? I'm still a little surprised though, that everyone just remains seated and eating when the son of a Great Lord walks into the room. This seems far more egalitarian than I would expect given the political structure, and how everyone was bowing and scraping to Robert when he arrived at Winterfell.

We're in the riverlands, right? So there is no direct relationship between Tyrion and the folks at the inn. In contrast, Robert is King of the Seven Kingdoms and the direct ruler of everyone within. They're not really comparable situations.

If we saw Edmure come in, I think we'd see more of a response. And when Catelyn is revealed, even though she is now a Stark and not a Tully, we see far more deference there than to Tyrion. Which is appropriate.

[NW Deserter]

Thanks Maltaran!

Ok, so is the general view that Tyrion just wanted to be polite by bribing someone rather than pulling rank? I'm still a little surprised though, that everyone just remains seated and eating when the son of a Great Lord walks into the room. This seems far more egalitarian than I would expect given the political structure, and how everyone was bowing and scraping to Robert when he arrived at Winterfell.

I really don't think it's that surprising...just about all of those men are either sellswords, neutral travelers who couldn't give a fuck which lord it is, or Tully bannermen. The first two can pretty much only be bought or bartered with, and the third group has no reason to be especially friendly to a Lannister, let alone the misshapen, disliked member of the family.