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[BOOK SPOILERS] EP105 Discussion


Ran

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That is assuming Cersei is lying about losing their son. If they actually lost a son, and she didn't kill it, then I will hate that scene.

Fair enough. I keep assuming they're making her honest and they're making that actually have happened. If they do turn it around, then she's potentially even MORE horrible than in the books and I'd be 100% cool with that!!!!

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I liked the added scenes of Robert/Cersei and Luwin/Bran.

It was nice to see Robert and Cersei as human beings as opposed to fairly one-dimensional characters they are in the first book. They clearly wanted to give the audience a clear reason for Cersei to finally off Robert. She wanted to talk to him one last time and see if she was doing the right thing. It also establishes her very average scheming ability. She sees Ned's departure as the perfect time to do this, when in reality Ned would be a perfect hand for her Joffery. He would do a good job, give the throne credibility and stability and he is not playing on the same level as the schemers, so they could easily act behind his back.

Loras should be built better if we are to buy him as a premier warrior. He was built like a boy.

This was my exact thought during that scene. When Robert said "No" he just sealed his fate in her mind, and she felt nothing.

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I loved the episode until the end. I loved that whole scene in the book. It was very emotional and dramatic with the rain and Jory. I had a clear vision of it. The HBO version was less dramatic to me and I did not like Lord Stark and the Kingslayer going at it. Maybe because I was worried the creators would give Lannister the upper hand and Lord Stark is my favorite character. I still rate the episode an 8/10.

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Most people think they are gay in the books too. Not going to outline that theory here.

It's not a theory. GRRM has confirmed it, a very long time ago (and obviously never would have given the go-ahead on the TV show anyway).

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Not in any real order

1. The Tournament went nowhere, no Archer, and Robert wants to fight in the Joust not the Melee, would it have been to hard to simply leave it as it was? I want to fight in the Melee tommorow and why cut Barristan? The Good Cop /Bad Cop thing they had going on was great and it's not like Barristan's actor can't act.

2. Our grand total of Jousts was the Mountain VS Sir Dead Guy and the Mountain VS The Knight of Flowers

3. The added scene between Bran and Maester Lewin was a good add, we get the words and a map of the Seven Kingdoms plus more Theon development.

4. That's Ros the whore with the magic tits? Come on by the build I expected DD's at least from a girl who skipped right out of a hair add. She was not the person we had been lead to believe. Plus I had no idea it was Theon fucking her? I was wondering who the hell was screwing who when the scene started.

5. Wow no way to build up the crazy on Lysa's part just oh hey I'm Lysa and I'm crazy nice to meet you

6. The TV budget shows we don't get the idea of the hill clans launched multiple attacks on the team and them slowly losing members until here comes the thunder of hooves and hey it's a bunch of knights of the Vale we are saved! Instead it's oh hey lets have a battle and lose half our people then oh hey it's the Knights

7. Okay why did we see the fact it was Varies and Illerio, in the books it's left a mystery but now not only do we see them but Littlefinger knew as well. It was better as a mystery but I can see why they did it with the later with the Varys VS Littlefinger Xantos break dance scene

8. Loras and Renly, in the books it's only hinted at sideways and obscure, in the show, Oh hi audience, this is me Loras giving Renly a blowjob, don't mind us, cut to Robert!

9. The Cersei/Robert scene is well done, some fan reaction hate on that but I LOVED it, you got the feeling these people knew each other for the longest time and had pretty much gone through every trial, she even describes what she's doing as spite. Shame Robert never "honors" her which would have really gotten the point home. But yeah I'm hoping Episode 8 or 9 where it comes out she's been a murdering asshole who kills Roberts bastard's left and right plus his old whores and the like.

10. I'm undecided on the Jamie VS Ned scene, I'm not sure I'm happy with the fight choreography but I loved how well Jamie took Jory apart and punched the guardsmen afterwards for breaking up their fight.

And 11.

I loved the episode until the end. I loved that whole scene in the book. It was very emotional and dramatic with the rain and Jory. I had a clear vision of it. The HBO version was less dramatic to me and I did not like Lord Stark and the Kingslayer going at it. Maybe because I was worried the creators would give Lannister the upper hand and Lord Stark is my favorite character. I still rate the episode an 8/10.

Thank you for reminding me

11. What a nice SUNNY DAY you got going there? The rain whole scene would have been much more powerful had the whole square been bathed in rain but I guess they looked at the costs of flooding the area with fake rain VS pretending it was sunny for budget reasons.

I'd have pitched in the what extra 50,000$? to rent a rain machine for the afternoon.

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Not sure why they felt the need to make Renly and Loras gay. I understand you gotta deviate from the book in some respects, but this just felt contrived.

Loras and Renly are indeed gay in the books. It's not hit-ya-in-the-head obvious, but it's there.

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Are you joking or just ill-informed?

Ill-informed or just missed what I guess was so obvious to most of you. Now that I think about it, Margarey being a virgin after her wedding night with Renly makes sense now. I guess I didn't pick up on that after reading the books. I did a google search on it and it appears I wasn't alone. I don't follow GRRM interviews so I wasn't aware that he confirmed those characters are gay. Might need to read the books again.

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Okay, what i REALLY wanna know is which lord is humping corpses??? Thoros of Myr, u dirty dog. Qyburn, what are you up to???

(yes I know they aren't lords)

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For me, if it's not in the material, it's speculation. I don't care what the creators say post-script. (Does anyone really think George Lucas always had Luke and Leiah being sibs?) It's not stated in the books, thus it is a theory (to me). I'm not saying it's not true, I'm saying it's not proven. They should probably just pop a link to some threads in to forums for this as it's going to blow up in here.

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That Loras/Renly scene was absolutely over the top. I mean, half the people I know didn't even know they were gay (and together) from reading the books so I just heard a collective "WTF" from people that aren't die-hard fans but read the book. I am not a fan of the open portrayal (and Queer as Folk is my favorite show ever, lol).

I'm sorry, but how the heck could anyone read the entire series and not realize they are gay and together? Jaime and Loras flat out discuss it when Jaime becomes the commander and makes a verbal jab related to it to Loras on another occasion (threatening to bugger him with his sword in places even Renly didn't hit or words to that effect).

People really should realize that many things are going to be shown in the series and more in your face that weren't in the book. The only reason we don't see any of that in the books is due to not having a Renly/Loras POV. When you add the visual medium we are going to see many POV chars we don't see in the book. That is the only way they can effectively explain some things, they can't have 5-10 mins of infodump in every episode. That scene showed they were a couple, which in turn will explain how he gets support from the Martells later on, and also puts forward Renly as a possible Game of Thrones King later down the line. It also gives a bit of insight as to who the Martells are and sets them up as a powerful house, showing they are very rich but not quite as rich as the Lannisters. While I don't think Loras or Renly are really enough of pretty boys for the parts, I think the scene itself was done well. The book series always made it seem that Renly and Loras was something most the nobles knew about but just didn't discuss. The only part that really bothered me was Littlefinger's comment, as bringing it into the open like that wouldn't seem like a likely move.

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For me, if it's not in the material, it's speculation. I don't care what the creators say post-script. (Does anyone really think George Lucas always had Luke and Leiah being sibs?) It's not stated in the books, thus it is a theory (to me). I'm not saying it's not true, I'm saying it's not proven. They should probably just pop a link to some threads in to forums for this as it's going to blow up in here.

Let the canon debates.....commence! :fencing:
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For me, if it's not in the material, it's speculation. I don't care what the creators say post-script. (Does anyone really think George Lucas always had Luke and Leiah being sibs?) It's not stated in the books, thus it is a theory (to me). I'm not saying it's not true, I'm saying it's not proven. They should probably just pop a link to some threads in to forums for this as it's going to blow up in here.

It's very clear in the books - it's not speculation.

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I'm sorry, but how the heck could anyone read the entire series and not realize they are gay and together? Jaime and Loras flat out discuss it when Jaime becomes the commander and makes a verbal jab related to it to Loras on another occasion (threatening to bugger him with his sword in places even Renly didn't hit or words to that effect).

People really should realize that many things are going to be shown in the series and more in your face that weren't in the book. The only reason we don't see any of that in the books is due to not having a Renly/Loras POV. When you add the visual medium we are going to see many POV chars we don't see in the book. That is the only way they can effectively explain some things, they can't have 5-10 mins of infodump in every episode. That scene showed they were a couple, which in turn will explain how he gets support from the Martells later on, and also puts forward Renly as a possible Game of Thrones King later down the line. It also gives a bit of insight as to who the Martells are and sets them up as a powerful house, showing they are very rich but not quite as rich as the Lannisters. While I don't think Loras or Renly are really enough of pretty boys for the parts, I think the scene itself was done well. The book series always made it seem that Renly and Loras was something most the nobles knew about but just didn't discuss. The only part that really bothered me was Littlefinger's comment, as bringing it into the open like that wouldn't seem like a likely move.

This. Not to mention Loras goes into a lover's rage when Renly dies, slaying fellow members of the Rainbow Guard.

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This was my exact thought during that scene. When Robert said "No" he just sealed his fate in her mind, and she felt nothing.

This was my exact thought during that scene, too.

That, and I also took the same message away that Mr. Bean did. It's a wonderful arc to their dysfunctional relationship.

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this episode was excellent.....except the scene with robert and cersei, the scene with loras and renely and the littlefinger/varys scene. renely is really be portrayed as a weak person not at all like the books

In the books Renly is "Copper" all shiny and pretty and no substance

I think they are doing ok with this

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Liked the added scene with Robert and Cersei....though my wife was yelling out, "F**k that lying bitch." :laugh:

Didn't mind the overt scene with Renly and Loras, but didn't quite like the characterization of Renly. Thought he was a dandy in the books but never got the sense he was wussy about blood, fighting, etc.... :dunno:

Squealed like my 5 year old when the Hound stood up to the Mountain. :thumbsup:

The only thing I really didn't like was the 500 foot tall Eyrie....though I guess that's picking nits. :rolleyes:

Another great episode all round. :kiss:

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