369 replies to this topic

[Greywolf2375]

Mad Sweeney, on 28 May 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:

I've answered this repeatedly.  The women doing their deed are secondary.  They could've been fisting each other in gimp outfits or simply undressing each other sensually.  LF's words were the character development, not the women's actions.  The juxtaposition of what the women are doing and LF's speech (since it's the same layered secene that's designed as a double entendre, they go together; they are not two separate incidents) in which he ignores their sexuality, guides them in their trade, and uses his guidance as a metaphor for his actions in life, love, ambition and politics is the character development.  Get it through your thick skull so I don't have to answer it again.

eta:  I will agree with you on one thing.  If you take out LF's speech, which is the sole point of the entire scene, then there is no character development in that scene.  Of course, if you take out all the speeches in almost all movies, books, TV shows, plays, comics etc ever made then there's no character development either.  That's why characters talk. HTH

Simmer down, take a step back from your righteous ire and actually read because what you want to believe you are answering isn't what is being talked about.

It's not a question that the scene is about Littlefinger's exposition.  Got that when I watched the scene the first time, as I said a few pages back.  I don't like that they did it, but that's neither here nor there.

The point is how does "play with her ass" and showing that add to the scene? Enhance the scene? Ironically, you even said something similar above - they could have been doing almost anything else while LF goes into his Treachery 301: Advanced class dialogue.  It would have been like in the throne room scene having one of the cameras focus on the intestines and spleen of one of Ned's guards while they are being killed/captured.  It doesn't add anything to the scene when there is something else - almost anything else - that could be shown just as effectively.

[DragonAge93]

Something I'd thought I'd share:

"Most readers will complete “A Game of Thrones,” the book upon which Game of Thrones is based, in twenty or thirty hours; only speed readers could digest the novel  in less than ten hours.  HBO is tasked with the obligation of presenting the main plot points and character attributes and developments in less than ten hours.  The producers cannot depict every scene of the novel, for to do so would require thirty hours or more of screen time."

I pulled that from the sixth essay of Direwolves And Dragons. i know it has been stated before, but I just wanted to share it, since he does have a point.

[Mya Stone]

Greywolf2375, on 29 May 2011 - 09:03 AM, said:

The point is how does "play with her ass" and showing that add to the scene? Enhance the scene? Ironically, you even said something similar above - they could have been doing almost anything else while LF goes into his Treachery 301: Advanced class dialogue.  It would have been like in the throne room scene having one of the cameras focus on the intestines and spleen of one of Ned's guards while they are being killed/captured.  It doesn't add anything to the scene when there is something else - almost anything else - that could be shown just as effectively.

I swear, next time I see you, I'm going to slip "play with her ass" somewhere into our conversation and see you if catch it.

[vgz]

reiver, on 23 May 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

The Borgia's has been, despite the historical opportunity, very tame and tasteful for the most part. Rarely throwing us tits and ass for the purpose of ogling. I suppose there's still plenty of room for that to come in their decadent decline but so far it's been a very good show, better than GoT imo. Spartacus was Starz not showtime and was a mixed bag. I didn't exactly like the way they handled nudity but for some reason it never bbothered me anywhere near as much as GoT's use of it has. If they're trying to one up these programmes in tackiness well fair play to them, i suppose they won.

I can honestly say I agree with your comments.  I have watched Spartacus Blood and Sand and its prequal and The Borgias and Camelot and I can say that the sex and nudity in these shows did not bother me.  They were done to enhance the story.  But the sex scene in the brothel with LF talking and having to hear the moans etc was just not right.  It bothered me too and I also agree with the poster who said that the moaning and sex in the scene did distract from what LF was saying (to make a point about his character).  Other than that scene I enjoyed the episode and look forward to the next.  To the comments made saying they should give us more important scenes based on the books (which I have read) I agree!!!!!

[Volderon]

Yeah because Spartacus didn't have random threesomes and orgies at all  

And Borgia's has been a very tame show, you're right. The show has actually been garbage. I stopped at episode 4 because it was ridiculously boring.

Camelot is filled with child "Twilight" stars that wear mascara and aren't dirty at all. The actor that plays Kay should be Arthur, not Edward Cullen 2.0.

This did advance the plot, Littlefinger was talking about his schemes, if the moans bother you, mute it and watch the subtitles.

Let's be thankful we have what those two shows don't have. If it means I have to endure a 5 minute "play with her ass" session, I would pay it gladly every single episode.

[malarky1231]

Volderon, on 29 May 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

Yeah because Spartacus didn't have random threesomes and orgies at all  

And Borgia's has been a very tame show, you're right. The show has actually been garbage. I stopped at episode 4 because it was ridiculously boring.

Camelot is filled with child "Twilight" stars that wear mascara and aren't dirty at all. The actor that plays Kay should be Arthur, not Edward Cullen 2.0.

This did advance the plot, Littlefinger was talking about his schemes, if the moans bother you, mute it and watch the subtitles.

Let's be thankful we have what those two shows don't have. If it means I have to endure a 5 minute "play with her ass" session, I would pay it gladly every single episode.

It's true, Camelot and The Borgias don't even come close to GOT. At the same time, as previous users have said, the sex scenes are less tolerable in GOT, bc they don't advance the plot. Any of the character developments that have occurred during a sex scene, could've been done without them. That's not to say I'm opposed to the sex, but when it's pointless I don't see the need for it. How is Theon ploughing Roz advancing the storyline? They could've developed his story without the use of a sex scene. The same goes for LF, he could've made viewers aware of his ruthless ambition another way, or even excluded it altogether until his betrayal of Ned. However Cersei's sex scene with Jaime was completely justified and unavoidable, bc it advanced the plot and was a catalyst for Catelyn and Bran's journey.

[Mad Sweeney]

Greywolf2375, on 29 May 2011 - 09:03 AM, said:

Simmer down, take a step back from your righteous ire and actually read because what you want to believe you are answering isn't what is being talked about.

It's not a question that the scene is about Littlefinger's exposition.  Got that when I watched the scene the first time, as I said a few pages back.  I don't like that they did it, but that's neither here nor there.

The point is how does "play with her ass" and showing that add to the scene? Enhance the scene? Ironically, you even said something similar above - they could have been doing almost anything else while LF goes into his Treachery 301: Advanced class dialogue.  It would have been like in the throne room scene having one of the cameras focus on the intestines and spleen of one of Ned's guards while they are being killed/captured.  It doesn't add anything to the scene when there is something else - almost anything else - that could be shown just as effectively.

I'm not ired in the least.  Just sad that reading comprehension is so low these days.   So now your objection isn't the moans or the naked women or the lesbian sex, it's the phrase "Play with her ass"?  Just trying to nail down what you're objection is, since it seems to change.  As I said before, what the girls did was irrelevant, it's an insight into LF's complete obsession with his own goals no matter what is presented in front of him.

You've wrecked your own argument here.  Yes, they could have shown anything and still gotten the point across.  So, you admit they got the point across, so what's the problem with what they said/showed (still not sure what part you object to now).  They can talk about Cersei's c__t (did they have to use that word?), disembowel rapists at Dothraki weddings (close up of disembowelling, where was your outrage then?  What did that shot add to the scene?  Huh?), gurgling deaths, frank descriptions of babies and toddlers killed by being bludgeoned, beheadings, incest, betrayal, etc... GRRM wrote and extremely violent, lewd, sexually frank (with tons of excessive descriptions of wetness and pubic mounds of 14 year old girls), rape filled, defilement (both physical and mental) filled story with excessively graphic content that's nothing other than the worst case scenario of the depths of human behavior... and you're bitching about someone saying "play with her ass" in a surprisingly intense and revealing layered scene.  It's too much!  Waaaaaaaahhhh!  They should've shown Robert get gored instead, even though GRRM didnt.  They didn't show Robert die instead, even though GRRM didn't.  Gold doesn't melt that fast, even though it did when GRRM wrote it.  You guys are killing me looking for ways to moan and whine about the stupidest things.  I've complained about small things, but not content.  My complaints have been all filmmaking issues that I as a professional filmmaker see.  But you guys are just too much.  

And btw, GRRM in his books actually talked about various bits of viscera, much akin to showing a cutaway of entrails spewing out of a skewered guard.  If they were to be truer to the books, there'd be more stuff like you talked about in a severely inappropriate comparison.  

Many, many posters have posted in here that they watched with friends who didn't read the books and were surprised that LF betrayed Ned.  We have the benefit of hindsight or foreknowledge (somehow it's the same thing here) so what you think tipped away viewers and will somehow drive them away actually seems to have worked exactly as it should've.  After the scene where LF tries to talk Ned into a smooth succession and his soliloqui in the brothel, they'll be smacking their heads and saying "Duh, I should've seen that coming".  But no, you have a problem with LF telling his whores to play with each others' asses!  I wish you could step away and see how utterly ridiculous you sound.  This is the dirtiest, most viscerally and descriptively violent book series I've ever read.  Your objections to base human interaction is nothing short of absurd.

[Mad Sweeney]

vgz, on 29 May 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

I can honestly say I agree with your comments.  I have watched Spartacus Blood and Sand and its prequal and The Borgias and Camelot and I can say that the sex and nudity in these shows did not bother me.  They were done to enhance the story.  But the sex scene in the brothel with LF talking and having to hear the moans etc was just not right.  It bothered me too and I also agree with the poster who said that the moaning and sex in the scene did distract from what LF was saying (to make a point about his character).  Other than that scene I enjoyed the episode and look forward to the next.  To the comments made saying they should give us more important scenes based on the books (which I have read) I agree!!!!!

How does it distract?  He's teaching the women to go the extra mile to make their clients feel special, as he relates in parallel to his approach to politics.  You don't convince someone they're special by whimpering.  He's six feet from women faking sexual ecstasy.  What sounds are they supposed to make?  I barely even noticed the moans, I concentrated on LF's speech and was rewarded with deep appreciation of a good scene.  Maybe you guys should try doing the same!

[Mad Sweeney]

malarky1231, on 29 May 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

It's true, Camelot and The Borgias don't even come close to GOT. At the same time, as previous users have said, the sex scenes are less tolerable in GOT, bc they don't advance the plot. Any of the character developments that have occurred during a sex scene, could've been done without them. That's not to say I'm opposed to the sex, but when it's pointless I don't see the need for it. How is Theon ploughing Roz advancing the storyline? They could've developed his story without the use of a sex scene. The same goes for LF, he could've made viewers aware of his ruthless ambition another way, or even excluded it altogether until his betrayal of Ned. However Cersei's sex scene with Jaime was completely justified and unavoidable, bc it advanced the plot and was a catalyst for Catelyn and Bran's journey.

Martin wrote a hyper sexual series.  You guys are acting like every time he used the word c__t or raped someone that it was only for the sheer advancement of the plot and was absolutely necessary because no other scenario would advance the plot/characters.    Too much fanboy ignorance going around.  HBO can't show a 14 year old girl getting fingerbanged on her birthday, so they make up the sexuality in other ways.  How does it advance the series?  It gets more viewers interested in the show.  Sex sell.  You want a season 3 or not?  Book fans aren't going to make up enough of an audience for that, others must be drawn in.  When people find out it's a character driven, sexy, violent story and not some D&D prurian geeky teen trolls and giants and knights full of derring do saving vestile virgins, then they'll tune in and keep the seasons coming.  If you can't stomach them just for that reason alone, then you all have a lot of growing up to do.

[wandarah]

vgz, on 29 May 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

I can honestly say I agree with your comments.  I have watched Spartacus Blood and Sand and its prequal.... I can say that the sex and nudity in these shows did not bother me.  They were done to enhance the story.  

*snigger*