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Syrio Forel = Jaqen H'ghar?


Mcknuckles

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This crazy theory makes zero sense.
In order for this to be true, then Jaqen somehow got himself imprisoned by Yoren, knowing they would be set on fire, and consequently saved by Arya.
This is so beyond common sense that it makes me laugh.

NO chance that Jaqen is Syrio.

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It has had a lot of play and really there is nothing in its favour once one has read AFFC.

The Black Cells hold one person each - there are no communal cells. The three in the Black Cells were released to Yoren before Cersei's coup. Top tip: if you want to plan a jail break, don't base your plan around the only people who are chained to a wagon.

I found just the opposite. At first I had totally dismissed the theory but after having read all of the books multiple times I believe it is possible. The more we learn of Varys and the FM and their possible connection with what might possibly be a grand conspiracy, the more plausible it becomes.

I agree with the last post, the actual transfer of the prisoners was off page. It does not make any sense that three dangerous criminals would have been placed in a cart any longer than they had to be. Most likely they were placed in the cart immediately before departure which gives Syrio and Varys plenty of time to replace one of the criminals in the cells.

We also know that Varys did not want war and he may have even have been hoping for future support from the North when the time came. What better way than to save the liege lord of the North? Or maybe there was some other motive that will be reveled when we know what Varys truly wants.

We have also learned that the FM are more than just assassins but are engaged in other types of espionage, for example Jaqen/Pate's current mission and possibly Mercy's mission.

There have also been threads supporting Varys ties to the FM.

While none of this proves the theory it does help establish it as a possibility, an interesting one at that and maybe why people like to keep discussing it.

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ACOK- Arya chaper I p32

Yoren has just given Arya spanking for walloping Lommy & Hot Pie.

"I know" Arya muttered sullenly.

"Here's something you dont know. It wasn't supposed to happen like it did. I was set to leave, wagons bought & loaded, and a man comes with a boy for me, and a purse of coin, and a message, never mind who it's from. Lord Eddard's to take the black, he says to me, wait, he'll be going with you. Why do you think I was there? Only something went queer".

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The one thing that can be agreed with absolute certainty is that this theory is not buried. It pops up perhaps twice every three months on this forum. Have a google search on Westeros and Syrio there are loads of threads stretching back over years.

There are basically two answers.

A polite answer: yes, it is possible for Syrio to be Jaqen if Syrio has a range of super powers inconsistent with the story

And a short answer: no.

In support of the theory is nothing. Therefore two things are generally advanced - wishful thinking and circular logic. The latter argument is that if one assumes that Jaqen=Syrio therefore Syrio is a Faceless man and faceless men have various powers that would allow syrio to escape and become Jaqen at some stage. The former argument takes the line that since we don't see the death on the page anything could actually have happened and Syrio is living off the page happily ever after.

This

Syrio = Dead.

End of story. Get over it.

And this.

Worst thing about this popping back up lis that the Varys is a FM threads probably aren't far behind.

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What I do not get about this theory is that Syrio and Trant's fight was to the death. End. Of. Story.



There is no way either one of those characters was going to be happy with knocking the other out and running away. Neither Syrio nor Trant was going to let the other survive. So one of them is dead and it isn't Trant, because someone stayed in KL looking like Trant and beating Sansa on Joffrey's orders. That doesn't sound too much like Syrio and/or a FM, so I am saying Syrio is dead.



ON THE OTHER HAND, I desperately want to know what got Jaqen in prison and I think that the library theory is sound, but it forgets another very extensive library - the library at the Wall. Did Jaqen want to go to the Wall to get into that library? And then he attaches to Arya in the hopes of getting into WF's library (or maybe getting to the Wall still, by taking her to Jon, if he knows about Jon), until he finds out that WF burned? Then he has to get himself a plan to get into the Citadel, which may be his last hope to fulfill his very mysterious mission. I am fascinated to find out what the mission is, but I don't have any good ideas yet. It could be something about the Others, I was thinking, since the FM are obvs interested in death and the Others clearly know a thing or two about death.



So why didn't Jaqen just show up at the Wall and offer to take the Black? I am puzzling that out, but it seems like that isn't really a thing people do so he may have worried that it would arouse suspicion.

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What I do not get about this theory is that Syrio and Trant's fight was to the death. End. Of. Story.

There is no way either one of those characters was going to be happy with knocking the other out and running away. Neither Syrio nor Trant was going to let the other survive. So one of them is dead and it isn't Trant, because someone stayed in KL looking like Trant and beating Sansa on Joffrey's orders. That doesn't sound too much like Syrio and/or a FM, so I am saying Syrio is dead.

So why didn't Jaqen just show up at the Wall and offer to take the Black? I am puzzling that out, but it seems like that isn't really a thing people do so he may have worried that it would arouse suspicion.

Don't be so sure. When questioned if Syrio was dead, Martin gave an evasive answer. There was no reason for Syrio and Trant to fight to the death. All Syrio wanted was enough time for Arya to escape and all Trant wanted was to take Arya into custody. Once she'd fled the premise was moot. Killing Syrio gained Trant nothing and it would have been nearly impossible for Syrio to kill Trant with his truncated stick. When Trant reported back to Cersei he made no mention of killing Syrio, just that he'd "interfered" in the attempted arrest.

The FM we call Jaquen had no business at the Wall, so he wasn't going there.

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Don't be so sure. When questioned if Syrio was dead, Martin gave an evasive answer. There was no reason for Syrio and Trant to fight to the death. All Syrio wanted was enough time for Arya to escape and all Trant wanted was to take Arya into custody. Once she'd fled the premise was moot. Killing Syrio gained Trant nothing and it would have been nearly impossible for Syrio to kill Trant with his truncated stick. When Trant reported back to Cersei he made no mention of killing Syrio, just that he'd "interfered" in the attempted arrest.

The FM we call Jaquen had no business at the Wall, so he wasn't going there.

We don't know what Trant said to Cersei. We know that Cersei's description of it later was that Syrio interfered.

Syrio specifically said he wouldn't run, so I don't think he would run and he wouldn't let Trant go up the stairs after Arya, so Trant would have to kill him to continue his pursuit. Besides, I doubt Syrio would have allowed Trant to retreat or that Trant would have tried to do so. He's going to want to skewer anyone that resists the KG. Trant doesn't need to gain anything by killing Syrio, he would need a reason not to kill him once Syrio interfered with Trant's job. And he didn't have one.

If Jaqen was on a mission to recover some lost knowledge from Westeros libraries, as the library theory I referenced suggested (it is earlier in this thread), he would have had plenty of business at the Wall, because the library there is possibly the biggest in Westeros, and if not the biggest, second only to the Citadel, which is much more heavily guarded.

Those are the only two theories I have heard to explain wtf Jaqen was doing when he met Arya, what his purpose was, how he got himself stuck in a cage headed to the Wall and why he turned around afterward and headed to the Citadel. The Syrio theory does not explain the trip to the Citadel, but the library theory does.

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GRRM tells us that Syrio was left in a bad situation and why do people keep asking him whether Syrio survived or not? And yet, concerning Jon Snows stabbing which looks pretty bad, GRRM toys with his fans and says, "so you think he's dead, do you?" GRRM must never be taken seriously.

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Let's say that Syrio managed to avoid and stall Trant for the time needed to let Arya escape (however long that is) and let's say that Syrio then manages to run the other way (even though he says he doesn't run) what then? He would still be inside the keep with a lot of gold cloaks and Lannister men rounding up the Stark faction. Since they even killed a septa it seems that they were very thorough. It seems rather improbable that Syrio, not very familiar with the keep and obviously a stranger to King's Landing, would be able to hide and sneak his way out. That said, we still don't know that this didn't happen in GRRM's fantasy world of dragons and zombies. Since wo don't have a confirmed death it is still possible, however improbable, that Syrio could turn up alive if GRRM so wishes.



Of course, it would be much easier for Syrio to get out alive if he was a FM. I don't believe that Syrio=Jaqen simply because his presence as "dance instructor" doesn't add up with him suddenly going to Oldtown (at least not without the use of a very convoluted story).


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Hello guys. Take a look at this - Cogman talking about Syrio for a Spanish website:

http://lossietereinos.com/bryan-cogman-guionista-de-la-serie-confirma-que-syrio-esta-muerto/

Of course the syriobelievers won't take this as proof. It isn't, really, but adding up to all the other sources that point to him being dead, this makes even harder for him to be alive),

But then, their grasp at every straw they can find to say that "there's no proof", so...

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  • 10 months later...

I don't see Syrio as being Jaqen, but it's POSSIBLE that Syrio is a Faceless Man who killed Ser Meryn Trant and took on his identity. Though I believe this to be unlikely, it's possible that Syrio is now a spy in the King's Guard (with regular access to the false Lannister king) awaiting the perfect moment to strike. ;)


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