[Book Spoilers] EP106 Discussion Part Two

[The Human Abstract]

I believe this story is inspired by the general Manius Aquilius who was famously killed by pouring molten gold (melted on a campfire) down his throat.

[Maltaran]

Not really. While disgusting, that act wasn't treasonous. Him poisoning Robert at Cersei's behest definitely was. When it comes to sex, Cersei doesn't seem to care who she sleeps with or what the consequences for that might be, but she definitely understood what would happen if Lancel decided to bare his other sins in front of the High Septon.

Under medieval English law, committing adultery with the queen was treason. I don't know if it's the same in Westeros, but given that this was the case in the time and place which was the inspiration for the series, you can't rule it out.

[Cereal Forel]

Under medieval English law, committing adultery with the queen was treason. I don't know if it's the same in Westeros, but given that this was the case in the time and place which was the inspiration for the series, you can't rule it out.

That's true too, she was probably worried about both.

For. The. Last. Time. Westeros may not be real, but GOLD IS!

I'm not arguing with you anymore. You clearly can't understand that by your logic, an Alien could land and we wouldn't be allowed to say 'WTF?' because 'Westeros isn't real'. Hell, even Tolkien incorporated realism into his stories. Do you know how? By having wood that burned, and magic wood that wasn't so easy to burn. Not changing the chemical properties of wood.

Which GRMM doesn't-

There's no need to get worked up over this :shrug:

You could argue that the Others are pretty alien-like, but I don't see you going WTF at that. In the books, Drogo melted the gold on (presumably) a cook fire and then poured it over Viserys' head to kill him. You can keep arguing about how "unrealistic" that is all you want. I don't really understand why you're arguing it in the first place, it is definitely unrealistic, but so is smearing your blood on a steel sword and having it magically light on fire. I'm going to continue to enjoy this fantasy series and not get hung up on minor details.

[Abaddon]

Not really. While disgusting, that act wasn't treasonous. Him poisoning Robert at Cersei's behest definitely was. When it comes to sex, Cersei doesn't seem to care who she sleeps with or what the consequences for that might be, but she definitely understood what would happen if Lancel decided to bare his other sins in front of the High Septon.

Lancel didn't poison Robert, he gave him fortified wine to encourage him to have an accident. Still arguably treasonous, but it's not the same thing, and it'd be easier to talk one's way out of given what a drunkard Robert was already.

[EDIT] I also definitely got the impression that the sex with Lancel was treasonous although I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated. Anyway, between those two things, there was plenty of cause for concern when Lancel got pious.

[Abaddon]

I'm going to continue to enjoy this fantasy series and not get hung up on minor details.

Well, clearly that is your loss :rolleyes: as it is so much fun to get hung up on minor little huge important factors like this!

[Landless Knight]

Not according to the last thread we had about this here. This thread concluded that a pot on a campfire could melt gold.

How Did Drogo Melt Gold?

Sorry. Didn't realize there was another thread. Blame my callow newbie innocence.

My post was meant as semi-humourous. I had no idea it would arouse so much controversy. You guys/girls take your metallurgy very seriously. :o

[Xenophon]

Ok, finally got to watch the episode. Most of my thoughts have already been covered in the last 25 pages or so, so I'll just stick to a couple points:

I like what they did with Theon this episode (other than the useless scene with Ros). He comes across as a douche, but also seems like he's useful as a Stark ally. I think they're doing a really good job of giving us mixed feeling about him.

Did anyone else feel that Tyrion's plan seemed less thought out? I got the sense here that he had counted on getting Jaime to fight for him, rather than that he was always angling to convince Bronn. The camera cut to Bronn enough that it wasn't a surprise at all, but I didn't get the sense that Tyrion had planned for this as much as in the book. I wonder if that's intentional or not.

Also, I feel like they're making it clearer how aggressive Ned is in refusing to back down. Somehow in the books his actions always seemed quite reasonable (probably due to POV-bias), but here it's very clear that he's taking drastic steps, in insisting that Cat acted on his behalf, attaining the Mountain, and summoning Tywin to court.

It's been mentioned before, but Ye Gods was Drogo's party dreadful. I'm not particularly fond of how they've portrayed anything Dothraki in the show, but the celebrations are particularly bad; I've been to baby showers with more guests than that. Eating the heart was great, as was the golden crown, but the tiny crowd really made the whole Stallion that mounts the World prophesy seem highly underwhelming. I didn't get the sense that Dany's child is supposed to be this messianic figure for the Dothraki.

[Quoth]

Sorry. Didn't realize there was another thread. Blame my callow newbie innocence.

My post was meant as semi-humourous. I had no idea it would arouse so much controversy. You guys/girls take your metallurgy very seriously. :o

:lmao: You have no idea the lengths folks will go to around here...

[The Knight of Grasses]

It's been mentioned before, but Ye Gods was Drogo's party dreadful. I'm not particularly fond of how they've portrayed anything Dothraki in the show, but the celebrations are particularly bad; I've been to baby showers with more guests than that. Eating the heart was great, as was the golden crown, but the tiny crowd really made the whole Stallion that mounts the World prophesy seem highly underwhelming. I didn't get the sense that Dany's child is supposed to be this messianic figure for the Dothraki.

I've come to terms with the fact that all of the high-level Dothraki stuff - the wedding, the heart-eating, etc. - include only the high-level Dothraki people. Khal Drogo, his bloodriders, and then some select few warriors and some "entertainers." That's just the way the show is doing it, obviously for budget reasons. But I think it works since they've been consistent. None of my friends who are non-readers have commented on the lack of large Dothraki events.

The lack of a large crowd for the Hand's tournament was a HUGE issue though. My wife, a non-reader, was wondering if they held the tourney in the backyard of the castle. She figured all the parents of the jousters would get together and barbecue burgers afterwards, maybe have a pool party.

[The Human Abstract]

You guys/girls take your metallurgy very seriously. :o

You should see me on the metallurgy forums. I am out of control.

[The Human Abstract]

The lack of a large crowd for the Hand's tournament was a HUGE issue though. My wife, a non-reader, was wondering if they held the tourney in the backyard of the castle. She figured all the parents of the jousters would get together and barbecue burgers afterwards, maybe have a pool party.

It'd be much cooler if -- instead of destriers -- they rode inflatable rafts. And, of course, used those pool noodles instead of lances.

[Xenophon]

I've come to terms with the fact that all of the high-level Dothraki stuff - the wedding, the heart-eating, etc. - include only the high-level Dothraki people. Khal Drogo, his bloodriders, and then some select few warriors and some "entertainers." That's just the way the show is doing it, obviously for budget reasons. But I think it works since they've been consistent. None of my friends who are non-readers have commented on the lack of large Dothraki events.

The lack of a large crowd for the Hand's tournament was a HUGE issue though. My wife, a non-reader, was wondering if they held the tourney in the backyard of the castle. She figured all the parents of the jousters would get together and barbecue burgers afterwards, maybe have a pool party.

Lol. Yeah, the crowd was definitely more of a problem at the tournament. I've also just accepted that Drogo likes to keep his parties exclusive. It still undermines the whole messianic angle of Dany's child, IMO. Having it proclaimed by the the Dosh Khaleen in front of a massive horde made it feel like the prophesy was unique. Here, one wonders if the priestess tells every Khal that his kid is going to be the one.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Did anyone else feel that Tyrion's plan seemed less thought out? I got the sense here that he had counted on getting Jaime to fight for him, rather than that he was always angling to convince Bronn. The camera cut to Bronn enough that it wasn't a surprise at all, but I didn't get the sense that Tyrion had planned for this as much as in the book. I wonder if that's intentional or not.

No, it seemed the same as in the book to me. In the previous episode Tyrion was saying in front of Bronn that "my father will offer a handsome reward" and a "Lannister always pays his debts" so I think it's clear that he had the same plan in the books. Also, up to that point in the book it wasn't clear that his plan all along was to get Bronn to champion for him, and even Tyrion for a moment thought he made a mistake until Bronn stepped up. I expect in the next episode Tyrion will explain to Bronn how he knew Bronn would champion for him while they're both in the mountains.

[The Knight of Grasses]

Lol. Yeah, the crowd was definitely more of a problem at the tournament. I've also just accepted that Drogo likes to keep his parties exclusive. It still undermines the whole messianic angle of Dany's child, IMO. Having it proclaimed by the the Dosh Khaleen in front of a massive horde made it feel like the prophesy was unique. Here, one wonders if the priestess tells every Khal that his kid is going to be the one.

I see your point about the prophesy, but I also don't think it's that big of a deal, given what we know about what happens to the baby and what happens to the khalasar. We do know what the child means to Dany and Viserys, as far as continuing the line of Targaryens, and that will still be true whether the prophesy was a big deal or not.

In fairness, I've always been lukewarm to the whole Danaerys story line in the books. It's better now that I'm reading the books a second time, but I'm not nearly as invested in the Dany scenes as I am with everything that goes on in Westeros. So it could be that I'm willing to let a lot more slide in that regard.

[Morrigan]

I agree that "it's a fantasy series!" is not a good argument concerning the melting point of gold. If it had been a fictional metal, it'd be different.

That said, I find it beyond stupid to nitpick about such a thing. No, gold doesn't melt that fast, but they clearly made the scene happen faster for dramatic and narrative purposes. Having it cut to another scene and then come back to the finally melted gold, or have them go to a forge and come back, would have destroyed the dramatic tension. The scene was fine as it was.

Me' date=' when I'm playing Demon's Souls as a melee character. It's the best shield to use until you find the tower shield. [/quote']

Tsk, you're such a noob. The dark silver shield is the best shield in the game, not that overheavy tower shield garbage. :D

[Abaddon]

I expect in the next episode Tyrion will explain to Bronn how he knew Bronn would champion for him while they're both in the mountains.

Tyrion and Bronn don't appear in Episode 7. I think it's likely they will just meet up with Tywin at the Inn in Episode 8.

[EDIT] Actually, forgot they are at the Inn at the end of the book, not this early. So they must meet up with the Tywin's half of the Lannister host wherever that is, but I don't recall exactly where that is right now.

[arrowfan]

Great ep, one of my favorites so far.

I have to say - Robert in this HBO production is not a likable character. I cringe every time he comes on because of his constant chastisement, insults, and arrogance combined with a few japes about whores and fighting. I think the actor is an excellent casting AND he's doing a great job at what they directing him to do. I just don't like the adaptation. Of course, Robert is supposed to be a brash character in the books, but he was likable... this guy is not.

Sean Bean as Eddard... Nailing it! Enjoying every scene he's in.

Dinklage as Tyrion. Continues to steal every scene he's in. I was prepared to be somewhat disappointed in the HBO Tyrion (he could be a tough one to get right) but he continues to steal every scene he's in.

[The Anti-Targ]

I'm a bit sad that we won't get to see the converation between Tyrion and Cat where he tells her that LF LIED to her about the alleged bet in which LF lost his knife to Tyrion. I was hoping to see it as part of Tyrion's trial before he demanded trial by combat.

I thought the revelation to Cat that LF might have lied to her about something so important as the ownership of the knife used in an attempt to kill her son was a big wake-up call to her. regardless of whether she took heed of it or hit the snooze button. A shame it got taken out.

[vgz]

Somehow after watching this episode (specifically the Eyrie with Tyrion and Cat), I am starting to dislike Cat. And after reading book 4, I know I do not like her. I do think she is not too bright. She acted without any thought to what she would start over Tyrion's capture. I know, it is what makes the show and books interesting and some say it is because of what happens to her children. But so far I am not impressed with Cat. With the actress playing that part I am impressed. Sansa is rude and very selfish and I do not feel sorry for Joeffry's treatment of her. She deserves what she gets for her betrayal of her dad and her selfish desires. Hopefully, she will see her way clearly and help to avenge her family. That is only my opinion of course of both characters/actesses. As for Dany's role in the story I will have to wait until the last two books are read for any clear opinion. Perhaps she has a bigger role to play in all the games being played for the Iron Throne.

Great episode, enjoyed it.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Under medieval English law, committing adultery with the queen was treason. I don't know if it's the same in Westeros, but given that this was the case in the time and place which was the inspiration for the series, you can't rule it out.

Problem is that Cersei, at the time she had the affair with Lancel was no longer the King's wife, but the King's mother, so if we're using medieval English law, she would no longer have been covered. Here's the Treason Act 1351:

Whereas divers Opinions have been before this Time in what Case Treason shall be said, and in what not the King, at the Request of the Lords and of the Commons, hath made a Declaration in the Manner as hereafter followeth, that is to say;

When a Man doth compass or imagine the Death of our Lord the King, or of our Lady his Queen or of their eldest Son and Heir;

or if a Man do violate the King’s Companion, or the King’s eldest Daughter unmarried, or the Wife of the King’s eldest Son and Heir;

or if a Man do levy War against our Lord the King in his Realm, or be adherent to the King’s Enemies in his Realm, giving to them Aid and Comfort in the Realm, or elsewhere, and thereof be probably attainted of open Deed by the People of their Condition:

and if a Man slea the Chancellor, Treasurer, or the King’s Justices of the one Bench or the other, Justices in Eyre, or Justices of Assise, and all other Justices assigned to hear and determine, being in their Places, doing their Offices

And it is to be understood, that in the Cases above rehearsed, that ought to be judged Treason which extends to our Lord the King, and his Royal Majesty.