104 replies to this topic

[Asharak]

It would be really weird if Syrio actually died. I always assumed that GRRM would have outright said so, if we weren’t meant to assume he was still out there somewhere.

Even if he did die, he certainly had a memorable sendoff, hopefully they do it justice in the show.

[ingsve]

NW Deserter, on 30 May 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

I'm a little worried about Drogo getting wounded...they've built him up as an awesome badass this entire season but the viewers have only seen him kill Viserys and fuck, two things that aren't very difficult to do. Hope they at least let him kill a few mofos before he gets injured.

There was some interview with Momoa where he commented on the lack of action for Drogo through most of the story and since he had just come off of doing Conan where he had lots of fighting he requested that they add some extra fighting for Drogo and apparently they did. There is supposedly a scene where

Spoiler

he rips the throat out of someone.

[Steel_Wind]

Anomandaris86, on 30 May 2011 - 02:11 AM, said:

Is Sandor the one who kills Septa Mordane? I can't remember.

Septa Mordane is killed "offscreen" away from Sansa. The fact of her death is known to her because she sees her  head on a spike. Who specifically killed Septa Mordane and under what circumstances are unknown to Sansa -- and therefore -- unknown to the reader.

While the TV series could resolve that issue for us and GRRM could choose to reveal it, it is far more likely that it will not.

The interesting thing with The Pointy End is that GRRM has an opportunity to revise his story fifteen+ years after the fact. Whether he will choose to do so, and in what way, if any, is an extremely entertaining prospect.

Moreover, we will have to put up with a lot less whining about the "canon vs. non-canon" nature of Episode 8. It's all GRRM, in the end. He makes the choices that he wants to make and it's all "official", come what may.

Edited by Steel_Wind, 30 May 2011 - 11:23 AM.

[Steel_Wind]

Asharak, on 30 May 2011 - 11:12 AM, said:

It would be really weird if Syrio actually died. I always assumed that GRRM would have outright said so, if we weren’t meant to assume he was still out there somewhere.

Even if he did die, he certainly had a memorable sendoff, hopefully they do it justice in the show.

I honestly don't think so and this is a case where the readers have creates a mystery and controvery where none was intended. Syrio was fighting Ser Meryn with a wooden sword that is wholly ineffective against Meryn Trant's armor. We see that stick break just as Arya flees the room. We do not have to guess as to whether or not Ser MEryn survived the battle -- we have always known that he does.  We know that unless Syrio somehow escaped the fight shortly after Arya fled the room, that Syrio must have died during it.

I honestly doubt that The Pointy End will do anything to revise this "mystery".

That said, Syrio Forell's professed espousal of the God of Death was an interesting tidbit for the fans. There are hundreds of gods worshipped in Bravos and the Many Faced God is just one of them. Syrio's line regarding "Not today" was certainly an interesting nod to the House of Black and White.

And yet you want more? "A girl is greedy."

Edited by Steel_Wind, 30 May 2011 - 11:30 AM.

[Frog One]

I knew GRRM would never let us down! :bowdown: :fencing:

[Huan]

Steel_Wind, on 30 May 2011 - 11:27 AM, said:

I honestly doubt that The Pointy End will do anything to revise this "mystery".

Agreed, and in any case, how would we know the mystery was being resolved the same way in the TV show as in the books? The show canon doesn't have to match up with the book canon.

[Steinman]

This looks to be the best episode yet. It'll be interesting to see how GRRM works as a screenwriter again.

[Knight Of The North]

Can't wait to see how they handle Robb finally deciding to plunge the entirety of Westeros into war.

Can't wait to see more of Syrio (Goddamnit, he has to live.)

Can't wait to see the entire episode.

[The Bastard King]

NW Deserter, on 30 May 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

I'm a little worried about Drogo getting wounded...they've built him up as an awesome badass this entire season but the viewers have only seen him kill Viserys and fuck, two things that aren't very difficult to do. Hope they at least let him kill a few mofos before he gets injured.

Or they can hype up his opponent by having him kill 3-4 guys together and then have Drogo destroy him in a fight without showing any effort.

[Bowl o' Brown]

Drogo. It's pretty safe to assume he gets wounded in 8, it festers in 9, and he dies in 10. Anything shorter wouldn't be sufficiently tragic.

[Zezibesh]

Steel_Wind, on 30 May 2011 - 11:27 AM, said:

I honestly don't think so and this is a case where the readers have creates a mystery and controvery where none was intended. Syrio was fighting Ser Meryn with a wooden sword that is wholly ineffective against Meryn Trant's armor. We see that stick break just as Arya flees the room. We do not have to guess as to whether or not Ser MEryn survived the battle -- we have always known that he does.  We know that unless Syrio somehow escaped the fight shortly after Arya fled the room, that Syrio must have died during it.

There were plenty of swords dropped by the guards on the ground.

[Anomandaris86]

At the very least, even if Syrio wasn't able to harm Meryn due to his armor, he should at least just be capable of dodging his attacks, don't you think? I think he just bought time for Arya, and then escaped.

Besides, isn't Meryn supposed to be a halfass fighter? I thought that was so. If it was Barristan or something I'd feel differently.

[danro]

Zezibesh, on 31 May 2011 - 03:54 AM, said:

There were plenty of swords dropped by the guards on the ground.

Syrio is probably not very good with a knights sword, his style is unsuited for the weapon.

Anomandaris86, on 31 May 2011 - 04:38 AM, said:

At the very least, even if Syrio wasn't able to harm Meryn due to his armor, he should at least just be capable of dodging his attacks, don't you think? I think he just bought time for Arya, and then escaped.

Dodging him for a time is one thing. But isn't he trapped in an enclosed space with an armoured knight?
Getting past Meryn and out the doorway seems a longshot.

[Été]

I'd never even considered that Syrio had survived until I started looking at the boards. It seems more likely that he was killed, but Syrio's such a wily chap that it's still conceivable he escaped. The fact GRRM is consistently cagey about what became of him puts more of a question mark over it, and suggests it might actually be significant, but who knows?

ETA: If he's due to reappear in Dance, then the show might contain some suggestion that he got away, but otherwise I doubt there will be any resolution short of having him killed outright on-screen.

Edited by Été, 31 May 2011 - 05:26 AM.

[The Anti-Targ]

Andhaira, on 30 May 2011 - 10:33 AM, said:

GRRM knows about all the theories regarding Syrio. He is writing this episode. This is an excellent chance to put fan arguments and theories about Syrio to rest. He better take that chance, or he will be one cruel mofo.

Why would he show anything definitive in this regard? If I was George I'd like to leave fans wondering about things like this right to the last book, or right to when he makes a reappearance (if he's going to at all). If Syrio is dead for real then I think George should leave people to wonder forever, including leaving fans of the show wondering, hoping that maybe, just maybe Syrio could win free.

Man if they have Jon talking to Aemon, leaving, coming back, being thrown into custody, and killing a wight all in one episode that would be too much. I'd rather see the wight attack start towards the end of this episode and finish in episode 9. Jon also needs to make up with Pyp, because right now Pyp thinks Jon is a total arsehole and there's no way he'd ride out to make Jon come to his senses and come back to the Wall...unless they ditch the hole Jon deserting part  

[Été]

The Anti-Targ, on 31 May 2011 - 05:23 AM, said:

Man if they have Jon talking to Aemon, leaving, coming back, being thrown into custody, and killing a wight all in one episode that would be too much. I'd rather see the wight attack start towards the end of this episode and finish in episode 9. Jon also needs to make up with Pyp, because right now Pyp thinks Jon is a total arsehole and there's no way he'd ride out to make Jon come to his senses and come back to the Wall...unless they ditch the hole Jon deserting part  

The preview has the Old Bear saying, "Your place is here now," with lots of exterior shots of Castle Black so they must be covering at least part of it.

[Axon]

Anomandaris86, on 31 May 2011 - 04:38 AM, said:

At the very least, even if Syrio wasn't able to harm Meryn due to his armor, he should at least just be capable of dodging his attacks, don't you think? I think he just bought time for Arya, and then escaped.

Besides, isn't Meryn supposed to be a halfass fighter? I thought that was so. If it was Barristan or something I'd feel differently.

It's entirely possible Syrio escaped, though what his role in ASOIAF would be now seems unclear. But Meryn is still alive, so it's likely they killed Syrio.

[Zezibesh]

danro, on 31 May 2011 - 05:13 AM, said:

Dodging him for a time is one thing. But isn't he trapped in an enclosed space with an armoured knight?
Getting past Meryn and out the doorway seems a longshot.

Get Meryn off his feet, and you can easily escape.

Axon, on 31 May 2011 - 07:29 AM, said:

It's entirely possible Syrio escaped, though what his role in ASOIAF would be now seems unclear. But Meryn is still alive, so it's likely they killed Syrio.

Or he could have disarmed Syrio, or he could have surrendered, or anything really.
Or he's the Faceless Man. I know that the theory has been practically debunked by some posters, but it was what I thought of when reading aCoK, and in my mind there's still that possibility.


EDIT: And, of course, GRRM likes killing characters in gruesome ways. Would Syrio's death really be left open like this?

Edited by Zezibesh, 31 May 2011 - 08:04 AM.

[OhDanyBoy]

The Anti-Targ, on 31 May 2011 - 05:23 AM, said:

Man if they have Jon talking to Aemon, leaving, coming back, being thrown into custody, and killing a wight all in one episode that would be too much. I'd rather see the wight attack start towards the end of this episode and finish in episode 9. Jon also needs to make up with Pyp, because right now Pyp thinks Jon is a total arsehole and there's no way he'd ride out to make Jon come to his senses and come back to the Wall...unless they ditch the hole Jon deserting part  

They certainly do not have all that, as that is not how it happens in the book.

Mormont tells Jon Ned has been captured and accused of treason.  Jon attacks Thorne at table, because of his insults about Ned's treason, and is put in one of the cells.  During the night, the wights attack, and Jon hears them and follows from his cell, eventually saving the old man.  This is likely where the episode will end.

Later, Jon is visited by the LC, shortly after hearing about Robb's march south, and is rewarded with Longclaw.  He shows the sword to Sam, at which point Sam says Aemon wants to see Jon.  Aemon has his talk about loyalties, and reveals his lineage.  That night, Jon deserts, leaving Longclaw behind.  He is brought back by his friends, and is that night told that the Watch is heading North to find Benjen - and Jon will be going as Mormont's squire.   This last bit will be spread over two episodes, not sure where they split it - probably at Aemon's talk?

[Abaddon]

If I were drawing it up, I'd have Jon riding off into the night as the cliffhanger ending for the Wall setting in Episode 9.  The Wall setting in Episode 10 would begin with his friends catching up with him and bringing him back.  Probably cut to another setting, and save the last scene for the following sequence:

- Tyrion, told he will be appointed Hand of the King and is going to King's Landing, and taking Shae with him
- Jon, informed they will be ranging in force north of the Wall
- Robb, King in the North
- Dragons

Seriously, that's an amazing finish.  I can't wait to see it, however they end up organizing it.