DC to reboot pretty much everything in September

[lynxx]

Know what I'd like to see? New characters. Scrap them. All of them. 50 years is enough. As the World Turns has gone bye bye, so should Supes. Just saying. He was a hero for the 50's and isn't relevant to today.

Lets have some creative integrity and instead of rechurning the same characters - do something new. It's just like Hollywood, do we REALLY need a Three Stooges movie?

:agree:

The 70 year old concept of caped wonders making the universe right just doesn't work anymore. It isn't even nostalgia unless you were born in 1932.

Let's retire yer grandpa's superheroes. This worked real well when Gaiman rebooted Sandman. Give us new characters and new stories!

[TrueMetis]

:agree:

The 70 year old concept of caped wonders making the universe right just doesn't work anymore. It isn't even nostalgia unless you were born in 1932.

Let's retire yer grandpa's superheroes. This worked real well when Gaiman rebooted Sandman. Give us new characters and new stories!

And what would that accomplish? The powers would all be the same. So what would be different? Superman if he was a dick? Cause the only way a guy like superman works is if he is a complete good guy. Batman but not rich using whatever gadgets he could cobble together from the local home depot?

I really don't see how you can make new characters without them just being rebranded old characters.

Superman if he had grown up in Detroit.

Batman from Arkansas.

Spiderman from South Central LA.

[peterbound]

Spiderman from South Central LA.

How the fuck did Spidey get thrown into the mix? Don't sully the friendly one with this DC filth.

[TrueMetis]

How the fuck did Spidey get thrown into the mix? Don't sully the friendly one with this DC filth.

Fuck sorry.

[peterbound]

Fuck sorry.

Ha, no worries, although i think Spidey in The slums of SCLA would make for a pretty bad ass read.

'Today i didn't even have to use my web slingers, i gotta say it was a good day'

[Jaxom 1974]

I've been out of comics for a bit now, but didn't DC do the reboot thing before with Zero Hour...?

[peterbound]

I've been out of comics for a bit now, but didn't DC do the reboot thing before with Zero Hour...?

Indeed. Listen, DC is a Hot Mess, for many of the reasons pointed out above. They need to get their shit together. They have a fuckton of great characters and a Rouge's Gallery that is second to none. They have a bad ass back catalog and those crazy heroes from '1932' are their best assets. They need some fresher looks on them while maintaing the history and mythos that surrounds them. I've said it once already, this 'reboot' is a fucking idiotic idea, and coming from a company that is renowned for it's fake out publicity stunts (death of supes, broken bat, dead bat, Evil GL) it carries little weight. This shit will last maybe a quarter or two and we'll be back to the regular numbering system and continuity, while having to make up some dumb ass major crossover event to tie it all together.

[Raksha the Demon]

I loved comics during the late 70's through the mid-90's. I finally gave up on them, tired of what was always happening - every time I really liked a writing/art team, they would eventually leave the comic and the comic would no longer be as enjoyable, or enjoyable at all. And at the same time, there was more and more retconning, rebooting, alternate versions of characters and universes. While that sort of thing was fun as an occasional big event, it seems like it happens all the time. I felt like there was no point in becoming attached to any character or storyline, they either already had become unrecognizable or soon would be. And because there were so many interconnected miniseries and crossovers, I couldn't follow X-MEN or whatever by buying one or two comics every month, I'd end up buying five or more (especially since X-MEN branched out to umpteen titles)....My interest waned along with my comics budget and storage space.

[red snow]

I think bringing spider-man up is pretty relevant in this discussion. Marvel essentially did the "soft" reboot on Spider-man a few years back and it did alienate a lot of long term readers and wasn't really any more successful than the previous run. They eventually tried to clear up the reboot in order to shift the stigma attached. Ultimately I'd say the Spider-man reboot failed in that it didn't catapult the sales or bring in new readers (although I think "new" readers are just other comic readers not new comic readers). Whether it will work better, or worse by relaunching the entire line is debatable. I think the key difference will be the digital side, which may be the best way to get genuinely new readers on board. A real ballsy move would be to make the first issues free online a month after the physical copy and advertise the hell out of it on android/itunes etc.

Raksha has a good point too. I think comics tend to sell the best when they have a long term creator onboard. This usually prevents reboots, etc and actually allows them to explore larger stories. Looking at the superhero successes of the last few decades it's usually the case that there is one long term writer onboard. There's the classic Stan lee examples, there's Claremont's X-men (which maybe became more convoluted but became the biggest selling US comic for years) and recently we have Geoff John's on Green Lantern and Bendis on Avengers. This is something they need to look into for the relaunch too, try and keep the creative teams around for a couple of years at least. Obviously this is easier said than done as no-one knows whether a writer will be a success or not but after 6 issues if the sales are staying strong they should be offered contracts that keep them on the title not just within the publisher.

[Nukelavee]

Good point, Red.

I have a huge number of comics, from numerous publishers, from around 82-95, and, honestly, once the publishers started breaking up teams and changing them every 2-3 issues (by team, lol, i mean art/writing) it became pointless to collect anything. (by collect, I mean simply having continuous runs of a title for reading's sake, although, sure, I hoped some might be worth money some day). A title could go from amazing to crap in 3 months.

I actually have most of my collection where I live, again, and been re-reading some, and wondering why I ever accepted others.

So far as the "old cast" of DC characters... Kingdom Come showed what could be done to both update, and stay true to things in an amazing way.

re-boots are simply a cheap way to try and avoid doing any real writing or creating, imo; it's so common now it just means people can avoid not doing stupid stunts.

[red snow]

A whole bunch of Batman books announced today but no sign of Morrison on any of them. Makes me feel as though the whole Batman incorporated was a huge waste of time. I know it wasn't going to last forever but it barely seems to have begun. I still wish they'd be clearer on how much of a "natural" progression these stories are eg The Nightwing blurb suggests Grayson recently gave up being Batman. I think it'll be safer to drop the batbooks until further notice, in my case.

What infuriates me is my inner geek. I've been looking forward to the Batwoman series since it was announced (over a year ago) and it's still with the same creative team but it's not "real" anyomore. Utterly stupid of me but I can't shake it. I guess it would be a bit like a long running TV show suddenly relaunching mid way through a season eg smallville recasting and tweaking the story at season 7. I guess "lost" did do that.

[Sci-2]

A whole bunch of Batman books announced today but no sign of Morrison on any of them. Makes me feel as though the whole Batman incorporated was a huge waste of time. I know it wasn't going to last forever but it barely seems to have begun. I still wish they'd be clearer on how much of a "natural" progression these stories are eg The Nightwing blurb suggests Grayson recently gave up being Batman. I think it'll be safer to drop the batbooks until further notice, in my case.

What infuriates me is my inner geek. I've been looking forward to the Batwoman series since it was announced (over a year ago) and it's still with the same creative team but it's not "real" anyomore. Utterly stupid of me but I can't shake it. I guess it would be a bit like a long running TV show suddenly relaunching mid way through a season eg smallville recasting and tweaking the story at season 7. I guess "lost" did do that.

No Batman Inc? They better let GM continue this as an Elseworld at minimum. It was such a great, natural progression where SOMETHING HAPPENS to the characters that doesn't rely on the hackneyed death/rape of Identity Crisis.

[Galactus]

Indeed. Listen, DC is a Hot Mess, for many of the reasons pointed out above. They need to get their shit together. They have a fuckton of great characters and a Rouge's Gallery that is second to none. They have a bad ass back catalog and those crazy heroes from '1932' are their best assets. They need some fresher looks on them while maintaing the history and mythos that surrounds them. I've said it once already, this 'reboot' is a fucking idiotic idea, and coming from a company that is renowned for it's fake out publicity stunts (death of supes, broken bat, dead bat, Evil GL) it carries little weight. This shit will last maybe a quarter or two and we'll be back to the regular numbering system and continuity, while having to make up some dumb ass major crossover event to tie it all together.

Eh, I'd definitely argue the Rogue's gallery part, apart from Batman's rogues i think Marvel's villains eats DC's alive.

[red snow]

No Batman Inc? They better let GM continue this as an Elseworld at minimum. It was such a great, natural progression where SOMETHING HAPPENS to the characters that doesn't rely on the hackneyed death/rape of Identity Crisis.

DC announced that BAtman Inc 1 will be launched in 2012 as Morrison is busy with something else (superman?). This quote from Morrison himself is interesting.

“Batman, Incorporated will continue through to Issue #10 and August’s shocking season finale that changes the Batman status quo yet again. The series will take a brief hiatus while I work on a major new project to be announced shortly. Batman, Incorporated returns next year with me, Chris Burnham and Batman: Leviathan, the epic 12 part conclusion to my 6 year Batman saga. Don’t miss it!”

How the hell do you conclude a 6 year saga when the entire line has been relaunched 5/6ths of the way through? Hopefully it's an elseworlds/ old universe "bubble" as i do want to see how the whole thing concludes. Just to be fickle, having a comic series that requires 5 years of story from a dead line of comics doesn't strike me as "accessible". Can't have your cake and eat it too, for me and DC.

I guess today might be superman day?

EDIT: with regards to rogues galleries, after this amount of time it would be a crime if Marvel and DC didn't both have excellent rogue galleries. Batman, Superman (it's cliche to diss because of the films), Flash (although i think it's cliche to claim it's excellent) and the X-men all have some great villains in them. The Avengers still require some more iconic rogues (ultron seems the best).

I'd say the X-men has the best range but i think Batman and Spiderman have the most fun ones, although i suspect that's because as a solo book they can concentrate more on villains.

[Happy Ent]

And what would that accomplish? The powers would all be the same. So what would be different? Superman if he was a dick? Cause the only way a guy like superman works is if he is a complete good guy.

R. Scott Bakker could write Superman. I’d read that.

“You have not the concepts to sound me, Luthor.”

[Nephrite]

DC announced that BAtman Inc 1 will be launched in 2012 as Morrison is busy with something else (superman?).

He still has that Multiversity project to do.

And a Vertigo fanatasy series with Camilla D'Errico called New Bible.

And Seaguy. He should finish fucking Seaguy.

How the hell do you conclude a 6 year saga when the entire line has been relaunched 5/6ths of the way through? Hopefully it's an elseworlds/ old universe "bubble" as i do want to see how the whole thing concludes. Just to be fickle, having a comic series that requires 5 years of story from a dead line of comics doesn't strike me as "accessible". Can't have your cake and eat it too, for me and DC.

Well, DC isn't getting a complete reboot it seems.

At least not Batman. It seems that some Batman Inc. characters are still there. Like that Batwing fellow that appeared in the last issue of Inc. is getting his own series. Cause, you know, popular demand.

And Damian Wayne is still there. So Batman Inc. is still there, it's just that only Batman is called Batman.

They won't risk pissing of Morrison. They ain't that dumb. I think.

Some stuff is getting rebooted. Like Hawkman and Firestorm. But who cares? It's Hawkman. He gets a reboot in every issue.

[Galactus]

with regards to rogues galleries, after this amount of time it would be a crime if Marvel and DC didn't both have excellent rogue galleries. Batman, Superman (it's cliche to diss because of the films), Flash (although i think it's cliche to claim it's excellent) and the X-men all have some great villains in them. The Avengers still require some more iconic rogues (ultron seems the best).

I'd say the X-men has the best range but i think Batman and Spiderman have the most fun ones, although i suspect that's because as a solo book they can concentrate more on villains.

Superman has Lex Luthor who is iconic, and has kind of adopted Darkseid. Other than that he seems... Less than stellar.

Batman's Rogue's gallery is obviously fantastic. Probably the best single one.

Flash's I know less about, but I've heard it's very good.

Marvel does seem to have a bit more "crossover" with it's villains... But the X-men obviously has a good set (Magneto & Mystique probably being the best). The FF's villains are arguably far better than the FF itself, Doom is of course fantastic, and Galactus is an awesome concept (but that's not surprising coming from me) but a lot of FF-villains seems to only come into their own outside the FF (Blastaar, Annihilus, Sandman...)

Spidey has a great Rogue's gallery, what I like about it is that it's less... Pathological than Batman's. Sandman, Vulture, Shocker, etc. are bad people, but they're still *people* in a way the Joker isn't. Vulture has a granddaughter and is old, Sandman is a disillusioned old career criminal, Shocker is just a normal guy who's work happens to be stealing stuff and beating stuff up... Kingpin of course is a great character, although he's mostly famous as a Daredevil foe.

The avengers have some good villains, like Ultron, but they actually are kind of lacking in collective foes (although they tend to pick up the foes of their members, Red Skull, Loki, etc. so it evens out)

A pair of villains I've always like is Absorbing Man & Titania. They're not particularly complex, but I always like villains with some human elements to them. (that bit where Creel gets himself beaten up by Spidey to cure Titania of her spider-man phobia is sweet)

On the cosmic side there's always Thanos.

[mormont]

Superman has Lex Luthor who is iconic, and has kind of adopted Darkseid. Other than that he seems... Less than stellar.

What about Mr Myxyzptlk? The 76th Greatest Comic Villain Of All Time! :P

[Bahimiron]

They're giving Barbara Gordon her legs back and sticking her in the Batgirl suit. Fuck that noise.

[Nephrite]

http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/06/07/dc-comics-swamp-thing-frankenstein/

Well, John Constatnie a memeber of a Justice League is new.

But, since it written by Pete Milligan I'll give it a shot. I hope it's Good Milligan and not Paycheck Milligan.