456 replies to this topic

[iheartseverus]

[MOD]

Folks,
It is against the policy of this board to discuss disciplinary actions, comments, or any form of dirty laundry from other boards on this site. A reminder of this rule (from our own FAQ) is reposted below:
QuoteSimilarly, if you have a personal beef against a user of this or any other forum, deal with them directly, post to your blog/LiveJournal/MySpace, whatever, so long as this forum is not used to air out your dirty laundry.

For that reason, this thread is now closed.

[/MOD]

Mod Stubby, is this okay, to open a new, clean, thread?   We've all had such great enjoyment reading and sharing the excitement, the speculations, virginal wild theories and insightful comments from TWoP.  Its been like experiencing the whole ASoIaF all new again, through other people's eyes.  New, excited eyes.  Can we do this, promising to keep it clean?

Posters in this thread:  Please abide by these rules:

1. We do not name any TWoP by his/her username.

2. We do not accuse TWoP posters of being bookwalkers or otherwise being dishonest cheats. That constitutes 'gossiping' and  'talking behind their backs' about members of another website, and our mods will close us down for that. Who is or isn't a bookwalker over at TWoP is THEIR business, not ours.

3. We do not air any beefs or grievances with the TWoP site here. If you've been banned from there, or think their policies are unfair or whatever your beef with them, take it up with them. Don't bring it here.

New posters to this thread--if you see another member  here whinging and posting negative comments about their personal complaints against TWoP, or violating the above rules, report the post. Thank you.

Edited by Stubby, 10 June 2011 - 10:45 PM.

[The Anti-Targ]

And here's the link to the TWoP thread.

Still running in circles about who sent a knife after Bran. It's making my head hurt. Some people think it'll be revealed this season.

[iheartseverus]

The Anti-Targ, on 02 June 2011 - 07:12 AM, said:

And here's the link to the TWoP thread.

Still running in circles about who sent a knife after Bran. It's making my head hurt. Some people think it'll be revealed this season.

What's really funny about many of those 'who sent the knife' posts is that those same people frequently comment in passing about what a sneaky, lying, treacherous weasel Littlefinger is, a few wonder if he had a hand in it, but I haven't seen anyone yet absolutely nail LF with the deed.

Glad we're back up and running again.  Keep it clean, folks!

[DireLlama]

I've been loving that thread. It's amazing how perceptive the spitballers can be. But I suppose that's the advantage of the episodic TV format, when they've got to wait a week between each chunk of story. By contrast, when I read ASOIAF, I shot through the published volumes really quickly, and never stopped to speculate, which feels like a shame now I come to think of it. I should have stopped to ruminate on the possibilities more.

The most annoying thing is when they spend ages trying to speculate on things that aren't actually that important. Though, actually I've been quite amused by their attempts to figure out the great houses and their lands. Like someone said in the last thread, it's all in the HBO viewer guide, but at the same time I've enjoyed following their speculation.

I kinda feel bad that they spent so long trying to figure out who sent the assassin after Bran when they'll just get a rather anticlimactic reveal in a couple of seasons' time when they've given up on that whole plot point.

I also think that it's rather hilarious that nearly all of them are expecting a Dothraki invasion of Westeros by the end of the season. Ha! That spitball missed its mark by a wide margin. Also, the people who think that Ros is going to save Ned somehow. That's what happens when you invent a new character for an already crowded series, and give them far too much screen time...

EDIT:

I also love the way that they've set themselves up. Taking the oath to defend the spitball wall against us nefarious "Bookwalkers". I love it. In fact, the term Bookwalker has probably now entered my vocabulary generally because of this!

Edited by DireLlama, 02 June 2011 - 08:04 AM.

[iheartseverus]

Loved this smart-ass one (bold type added by me..)

Was this part of Littlefinger's plan - to set the Starks against the Lannisters? If so, to what purpose? Does this mean Pimps cannot be trusted? Does the Wildling girl's accent mean the Wildlings are from Manchester? Does the scene with the wine seller merely prove 2 things - that you shouldn't try to encourage a pregnant woman to drink alcohol and that the hosts get angry when you try to bring bad wine to a party?

LOL, obviously Natalia 'Tonks' Tena has an accent that her fellow Brits recognize!

And then, there's this one:


Also why is everyone upset with Drogo firing up his rampaging horsemen with a little raping and pillaging pep talk?

Come on guys, Khal Drogo isn’t some sensitive new age guy trying to get in touch with his feminine side.

Edited by iheartseverus, 02 June 2011 - 09:16 AM.

[Abaddon]

Quote

Anyway, obviously this [Littlefinger being behind the Bran attack] is all spitballing, but I like it as much as anything else I've heard, and the sheer stupidity of the Lannisters trying to kill Bran with a Lannister dagger immediately eliminates them for me.

This all makes a heck of a lot of sense; too bad he isn't accounting for the stupidity of Joffrey  

Love this thread, thanks for bringing it back, and everyone PLEASE I know it's like a broken record but let's keep it clean.

[Bahimiron]

DireLlama, on 02 June 2011 - 08:01 AM, said:

I kinda feel bad that they spent so long trying to figure out who sent the assassin after Bran when they'll just get a rather anticlimactic reveal in a couple of seasons' time when they've given up on that whole plot point.

This and some other things kind of make me nervous about massive viewer dropoff after the end of the first season. People probably just assume that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn, but the truth of that won't come out for a while either. There's a clear expectation that Dany will be joining the story happening in the west much sooner than season 5 or 6 or whatever it ends up being. After losing Drogo and Ned in the next two episodes and not getting answers to some of the questions that seem to have been driving a lot of the action so far won't cause these non-readers to say 'eff this, worse than Lost!'

[jellydonut]

Can someone tell me where on earth the term 'spitballer' comes from?

[iheartseverus]

jellydonut, on 02 June 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

Can someone tell me where on earth the term 'spitballer' comes from?

Tossing out theories = like throwing spitballs at a wall and hoping at least one of them sticks.

[Padraig]

Bahimiron, on 02 June 2011 - 10:30 AM, said:

This and some other things kind of make me nervous about massive viewer dropoff after the end of the first season. People probably just assume that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn, but the truth of that won't come out for a while either. There's a clear expectation that Dany will be joining the story happening in the west much sooner than season 5 or 6 or whatever it ends up being. After losing Drogo and Ned in the next two episodes and not getting answers to some of the questions that seem to have been driving a lot of the action so far won't cause these non-readers to say 'eff this, worse than Lost!'

It is possible that D&D might give us some more hints about some of the mysteries before the end of S1.  Apparently, there is a scene in the last episode of S1 where Catelyn confronts Jaime.  I'm thinking Jaime will give us a lot more details about the Mad King at this point.  They have kept referring to that mystery throughout the season.  What did Aerys do!  I think the producers are well aware that they must give some answers earlier than in the books.

Or (for example) they could reveal the person behind Bran's  assassination in S2 if they wish.  (I imagine it will still be through  Tyrion, so it can't happen before Tyrion gets to KL).

I'm not worried about Drogo's death.  People will be gasping at the twist (in a good way).  Dany's position might become an issue in later seasons but hopefully people will be very hooked by then.

[smegma]

Eh, shows leave things unanswered for ages - how long did it take to find out who the Others actually were on Lost? Or any myriad of other things. It'll be fine, as long as it's done well and in a compelling manner - especially since some great characters are introduced next season.

[The Anti-Targ]

Bahimiron, on 02 June 2011 - 10:30 AM, said:

This and some other things kind of make me nervous about massive viewer dropoff after the end of the first season. People probably just assume that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn, but the truth of that won't come out for a while either. There's a clear expectation that Dany will be joining the story happening in the west much sooner than season 5 or 6 or whatever it ends up being. After losing Drogo and Ned in the next two episodes and not getting answers to some of the questions that seem to have been driving a lot of the action so far won't cause these non-readers to say 'eff this, worse than Lost!'

At least unlike Lost the writer (GRRM, not D&D) isn;t going to run out of ideas and be force to wrap things up in an incoherent and ridiculous fashion, making stuff up on the fly.

I think as long as Robb gets enough screen time for viewers to feel a connection with him, then Him being proclaimed King in the North, and capturing Jaime and Dany birthing the dragons will be enough to bring people back for more. The Spitball Watch are already predicting Ned's demise (or his sending to the Wall) and Robb's rise to Lordship of the North, but they are saying they haven't seen / don't know enough about Robb to really care about him. That should change, but I think they've done a bit of a poor job by Robb given he's part of what's meant to carry people through to next season.

And then there's Jon and Sam.

I'm not worried about large audience drop off because of unresolved mysteries, and no Dothraki invasion.

[iheartseverus]

The Anti-Targ, on 02 June 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

I'm not worried about large audience drop off because of unresolved mysteries, and no Dothraki invasion.

Nor am I.  I've been over there reading for awhile now and many of those folks are totally immersed in the story, I mean, totally.  The big (and funny!) hot topic right now for many pages is the knife used in the attempt on Bran.  A couple people have surmised it must have been Joffrey who hired the assassin, but they're thinking he did it to get revenge on Tyrion for bitch-slapping him.  The theory being that the assassin was supposed to leave the knife there, implicating Tyrion.  They know that Tyrion is too smart to use his own knife for such a deed, but they also think Joffrey is so stupid that he wouldn't realize it!  The funny stuff, for me, comes in just how microscopically they dissect an issue!   They've got lists of everyplace we've seen that knife and who was present at the time, who reacted to seeing the knife and who didn't.  Sheesh, I missed half of that stuff and I watched the same episode they did!   I also notice that their 'Totally Unspoiled' thread for Ep. #7 is already many pages longer than the same thread for previous episodes and I see many postings from brand new members.  So, nah, the show isn't going to lose viewers because of a few popular characters' deaths.  And they're already calling Ned 'Dead Man Walking,' so when that happens, it won't be an awful shock to many new viewers.

[fitheach]

iheartseverus, on 02 June 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

  So, nah, the show isn't going to lose viewers because of a few popular characters' deaths.  And they're already calling Ned 'Dead Man Walking,' so when that happens, it won't be an awful shock to many new viewers.

That's a shame though, it should be a shock. I'm sad that the TV viewers wont get the throw something at the TV moments- like our many throw the book at a the wall (Red Wedding anyone?) moments..

[Abaddon]

fitheach, on 02 June 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

That's a shame though, it should be a shock. I'm sad that the TV viewers wont get the throw something at the TV moments- like our many throw the book at a the wall (Red Wedding anyone?) moments..

It will be a total shock for 95% of TV viewers.  These guys don't get shocked easily.

Besides, the TV viewers have yet to be set up for Ned to be clearly being sent to the Wall.  All signs point to that until Joffrey screws everything up.

[Songstress]

Oh, I adore the noobs!  Now they're taking bets on who will and won't survive the season (and the series)... Some of the guesses are pretty spot on, and some of them will be thoroughly crushed before long.   I like this post:

Quote

Dead in Episode 8:
2-1 on Ser Barristan (Cersei Makes A Point!)
2-1 on Benjen
2-1 onHoster Tully
8-5 on Ned Stark (when we've been lulled!)

Dead by Season Finale:
Odds off on Ned Stark: bets only accepted on "how"
  1) while escaping?
  2) while "escaping"?
  3) in his cell
  4) under the ax
  5) some more disgusting form of execution Joffrey revives, for the occasion
8-5  on Khal Drogo, if the Khalessi has foaled the Stallion; Dany herself  vows to lead the invasion, and the Dothraki choose to follow her

And then the Live Long and Prosper (Not) List:

Crosses the Finish Line
1) Jon Snow (#1 saga protagonist)
2) Danerys (#2 saga protagonist)
3) Arya (saga gadfly, distaff divison)
4) Tyrion (saga gadfly, male division)
5) Robb (there'll always be a Lord Stark)
6) Bran (have you met Maester Stark?)

Battling in the Home Stretch
1) Jaime (#3 saga agonist/redeemed protagonist: may survive; more probably dies with honor)
2) Catelyn (lives to see Jon Snow become King)
3) Tywin (watch your back, Dad)
4) Littlefinger ("Curses!")

DNF: Pulled Up on the Backstretch
1) Cersei ("We belong together..."  "See, here's the thing, though...")
2) Joffrey ("Mummy.....!)
3) Varys (Spider rubbed out by just a little finger)
4) Jorah (because he should have taken the pardon and run, but finds his inner Ned)

Dark Horse for Not Making It Out of the Starting Gate
1) The Stallion Who Dies a Colt

Hoping we get at least through ASOS to see the fantastic noob reactions the further we go!

[iheartseverus]

Isn't that site great fun?  Here's from a complex game they've got going about minor characters that they want to become major characters.  Site members look over the long list and then can name 3 characters as minus (--) or plus (++) to vote the character up or down.  So, characters keep changing places, moving up and down the list.  

As of now, here's the list of the characters that got booted off altogether--read it from bottom to top.  In other words Lysa Arryn was the first to go:

No More Second Chances
23. Ser Rodrik Cassel - Your sideburns can't save you now!
24. Pyp - Sing us a song Pyp, I should like to hear a song of your demise.
25. Mord - His existence became an abstract concept.
26. Illyrio - Sold into "marriage" (slavery) as the "wife" (plaything) of a Qartheen warlock.
27. Lancel Lannister - Off to find the breastplate stretcher!
28. Theon Greyjoy - He's following Ros to the great whorehouse in the sky
28. Rickon Stark - Do your parents even know where you are?
29. Ser Gregor Clegane - Ok, you lost it happens. Don't get mad and kill your horse again. No! Put the sword down!
30. Grand Maester Pycelle - He forgot he was ever in the running.
31. Ilyn Payne - Executing the executioner.
32. Ros - A juxtiposition of exposition and exposed positions no more.
33. Ser Alliser Thorne - If we talk to him, everyone will think we're cannibals too!
34. Robin Arryn - All he does is suck.
35. Lysa Arryn nee Tully - Make the crazy lady fly

Here's who's on top, as of now, in order:

61 -Renly Baratheon - Younger brother of Robert and Stannis, a member of the King's Small Council.
59 -Ser Barristan Selmy - A King's knight of great renown (and sexy gray hair).
49 -Syrio Forel - Arya Stark's dancing master. Former First Sword to the Sealord of Braavos.
41 -Bronn - A Sellsword who (update! This just in!) switches sides and champions Tyrion
35 -Varys - Called 'The Spider' - the King's Spymaster, a eunuch, a member of the King's Small Council
33 -Rakharo - Drogo's man. He wields a whip.
33 -Samwell Tarly - Self-proclaimed craven who joined the Night's Watch at the "insistence" of his father. Wants to be a Wizard.
33 -Petyr Baelish - Called 'Littlefinger' - Master of Coin on the King's Small Council. Old friend of Catelyn.
31 -Doreah - Daenerys' handmaiden from Lys, responsible for teaching the art of love.
27 -Ser Loras Tyrell - Known as the Knight of Flowers, lover of Renly Baratheon, has a thing for shaved chests.

What I enjoyed most about reading through this thread was the witty, snarky comments about why people were voting the way they were.  Like these:

Sam ++ There's just so much of him to love
Petyr -- I like you, but I don't want you to win
Varys -- Spiders go squish

Samwell ++ (He wants to be a wizard! I want to be a wizard! Coincidence!)
Rakharo ++ (Still gorgeous. Still imposing and still good with a whip. Mrrrr.)
Petyr -- (If I could - more, I would! You little weasel.)

++ Ser Barristan (Honorable, White cloak, sexy hair, what's not to love?)
-- Myrcella Baratheon-Lannister (or is it Lannister-Baratheon?)
-- Grenn (Father issues? With this cast of characters, being abandoned at three is minor league.)


Ilyrio -- I've read the books and I still don't know, or care, what this guy does
Pyp -- you're on the wall, and your name isn't sam or jon? not interested
Mord -- no gold? fuck off!

(Me, again)  I'd love to bring that list-game over here, it moves so fast!  Characters moving up, down, up, down.  But, I have no clue in the world how to do it.

[Songstress]

iheartseverus, on 03 June 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

(Me, again)  I'd love to bring that list-game over here, it moves so fast!  Characters moving up, down, up, down.  But, I have no clue in the world how to do it.

Very fun!  And a good excuse for me to start posting on the TWoP forums again, after letting my membership idle for years on end.... since I can't post in the Completely Unspoiled Speculation thread even to tell them how much I love them.

[Ranmyaku]

Anyone else reading the theories get that little pang of feeling that if they hadn't read the books, they could get so thoroughly involved in this line of debate too? Alas, we still get our malevolent high horses on which we can ride and look down on all those unfortunate souls who have never had the pleasure of getting up to and through AFFC.(Which I'm about a hundred pages off finishing again! Ready for ADWD.)

We're all going to be watching and watching, waiting with baited breath for the Red Wedding, we'll be reading all these theories, and know all the signs from Grey Wind to the drums beating..but the "Spitball Watch"(how apt!) is going to be hypothesizing without knowing there will be signs. I think they seem quite perceptive and could easily guess that niggardly miser Walder Frey has some form of awful surprise in store. We'll all need to be extra vigilant that anyone willing to spoil the Red Wedding for our TV-watching squires are found pre-emptively and stopped!

(I'm British and never noticed Osha had a Manchunian accent...Or that she was Tonks. )

Reading the books, and throwing them at others to read, none of us saw Ned's death coming..something bad, mayhaps, but never his death. And so untimely! Of course the series, we must remember, has been built up and hyped a lot for it's twists, turns and unexpected political goings on.

((Barristan can't die. Let's be honest here.))

[iheartseverus]

Gotta love the clever, snarky writing--some of these folks are pretty talented writers.  These are two posts--the first has it confused over who exactly Jon will be stewarding for--getting Mormont mixed up with Alliser Thorne.  The second post sets it straight.  Love the descriptions of both Thorne and Mormont!!



(1) However, Lord Commander Mormont on the wall, clearly some kind of relative to Jorah (and I personally can't figure out if he's brother, father, uncle or third cousin twice removed to Jorah) dialed up the sinister glee in the "Jon Snow becomes his personal servant" scene. Grooming Jon to take over seems unlikely to me, since he seemed to be barely keeping himself from cutting a "how's that salt in your wound?" caper.

(2) No, I think you may have gotten that wrong? I believe the "training means you suffer and I enjoy it" guy, who looks a bit like a sadistic monk, is someone else. The old guy who I think runs the place, who looks a bit like a very depressed and down on his luck Santa, is the Mormont, right? And he's the one Jon will be serving, not the "kill the fatty" guy.


**A QUICK REMINDER:  When we copy and paste from TWoP to here, we do not identify the TWoP member who made the original TWoP post.  We also do not identify so-called TWoP bookwalkers by username.  They are TWoP's business, not ours.  Our Mods shut down the last TWoP thread here for transgressions.  Lets keep this one clean and open. **

Edited by iheartseverus, 04 June 2011 - 06:14 PM.