434 replies to this topic

[Asarlai]

Wunhopkuendo, on 06 June 2011 - 05:48 PM, said:

Which leads me to another point. I keep thinking that Stanis is going to be a mystery if he ever shows up, until my wife said "do you think Stanis will rescue Ned?" I didn't think she had a clue who Stanis was, but apparently I was wrong. Too bad for her she guessed wrong on that one. I can't wait to see her face when Ned loses his head.

I've been watching with my father, who had a thought that when Dany and the Dothraki took the kingdom, they'd do something like "Let the poor bastards in the dungeon out," but now he seems to think it'll be more like Robb or Stannis or Varys. Yeah, next episode is gonna be tough... Especially since Ned is probably the best-liked character for non-readers, from what I've seen. Then again, he was my favorite character at that point, too. Makes me realize how much the series has changed from the conflicts of early-mid GoT to the wars.

[Simon Steele]

Été, on 06 June 2011 - 06:13 PM, said:

My housemate is reading AGoT and I've been teasing loads without spoiling. They spoke to a mate from home who promptly asked if they'd got to the bit where Ned dies, then said not to get too attached to any of the Starks and spoiled the fall of Winterfell, the Red Wedding and the Purple Wedding.

Said housemate's girlfriend is now watching the series and I will make do with enjoying her reaction!

Bastard. Ugh that ticks me off. Happened to me when I was reading a Clash of Kings. I saw the Ned thing coming a mile away, he reminded me too much of the father in Dune. But I was really pulling for Robb, and it was the old ASOIAF message board where I first joined and mentioned something about how much I wanted Robb to win.

Then some dude spoiled the whole Red Wedding for me. I'm still angry to this day. That must have been seven years ago.

[The King's Foot]

Asarlai, on 06 June 2011 - 06:26 PM, said:

I've been watching with my father, who had a thought that when Dany and the Dothraki took the kingdom, they'd do something like "Let the poor bastards in the dungeon out," but now he seems to think it'll be more like Robb or Stannis or Varys. Yeah, next episode is gonna be tough... Especially since Ned is probably the best-liked character for non-readers, from what I've seen. Then again, he was my favorite character at that point, too. Makes me realize how much the series has changed from the conflicts of early-mid GoT to the wars.

Ep 9 is going to be the one that hooks the non-readers for good, and gets them convincing their friends to watch the season on DVD/interwebs this summer.  I've been talking to my brother who is a non-reader and he is also highly anticipating the big Shawshank Redemption of Ned.  Having the show off the "main" character is going to make some peoples' heads explode in the best possible way.

[Été]

steele, on 06 June 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:

Bastard. Ugh that ticks me off. Happened to me when I was reading a Clash of Kings. I saw the Ned thing coming a mile away, he reminded me too much of the father in Dune. But I was really pulling for Robb, and it was the old ASOIAF message board where I first joined and mentioned something about how much I wanted Robb to win.

Then some dude spoiled the whole Red Wedding for me. I'm still angry to this day. That must have been seven years ago.

That's dreadful! I am absolutely crap with suspense, so it's a real struggle to restrain myself from spoilers!  Managed it for ASoIaF though and wouldn't want to ruin the surprises for anyone else. The Red Wedding was such a shock I immediately had to reread it to make sure they'd all actually been killed.

It's great loaning the books to people, ask how they're getting on and have the answer prefaced with, "OMG, I can't believe..." Sharing the joy! All that murder, rape, incest, zombies, torture, kidnapping and betrayal, bringing nerds together since 1996. I'm sorry, this has gone rather off-topic.

[tarantella]

I'm going to love seeing people's reactions to the next episode.  This episode and the next should definitely get them truly hating some characters.  Joffrey, Alliser Thorne (if they don't hate that dick already.)  Pycelle came off as a major asshole too, but non-readers aren't going to realize it until next season when Tyrion starts his own investigations in KL.  I noticed Janos Slynt was in there too, that was a nice set-up.

I missed Roose Bolton.  Are they keeping him for next season?

[Ser Warpechowski]

Rand, on 06 June 2011 - 03:31 PM, said:

Oh good looks like the site is backup.  In regards to this and the previous question asking why Robb let the scout go, seems like a lot of people missed the potential bit of genius behind it.  This is still speculation on my part, but remember we don't actually know how many men Robb is leading.  When told the scout was counting their men, he simply asked "how high did you get?", to which the scout replied "18, 20,000". Considering that the Lannisters were able to muster up 60,000 men, I'd imagine the Northern army should probably number something more like at least 30,000 men, and the scout either didn't get the chance or didn't properly count them all.  

But now he's going to run back to Tywin reporting a 20,000 man army. So roughly that amount needs to show up to meet him to deflect suspicion that the rest of the army is sneaking around the back to attack Jamie.

He tells Cat he has 18.000. Some people here said he let the scout go because his figures was "20.000 or more". Now, even if the guy thought they have 24.000 it wouldnt really change Tywins plans because a host 18k or 24k is not that diferent unless its all knights on horses. Now, he let the scout go and said that he was going to kick Tywin ass because that way Tywin will NOT realize he has split his forces and so wont warn Jaime. That part was left out but I guess they will go back to it next episode.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Merentha, on 06 June 2011 - 03:33 PM, said:

Syrio would have been a lot more plausible with the Lannister guards if they hadn't been armored.  That was what made Trant so imposing in the books:  his plate.  Its something that comes up a lot in fantasy movies:  everyone is too armored.  Make them have mail and a leather cap, then Syrio breaking arms and faces makes a lot more sense.   Ah well.  

Every episode has a great new actor where I just get impressed, again, at how good they are.  This one's was definitely Robb, with a close second to Dany.  They're just doing a stellar job.

Agreed. They didnt really need that many armored men to get Arya and her dancing master. The kingsguard was there because Arya was a royal hostage, but who could know her dancing master was a master sword fighter?

[Morrigan]

Wunhopkuendo, on 06 June 2011 - 05:48 PM, said:

First things first, the next person that complains about a wooden sword is going to find me putting a helmet on their head and smacking them upside it with one of mine. After that, and while their ears are ringing and are filled with a complete lack of orientation, I am going to use the same piece of wood to bust apart both knee caps, elbows, shins, and perhaps a few fingers for good measure. Seriously, stop talking if you have no idea what it means to be hit with a wooden sword by a trained swordsman.

Well said. Hell, in kendo we train with swords made of bamboo when fighting in armour, and we use wooden swords (bokkens) for the katas only. Even wearing our armour, getting hit by a bokken would be ridiculously dangerous.

Quote

Phew, now I can remark on the actual show. I agree with everyone here about the stableboy killing; however, my non book reading wife gasped when it happened and said "oh poor Arya." So perhaps that message came across just fine. Along those lines, I also thought the wight scene was not nearly scary enough, but it scared the shit out of her. She is my non reader sounding board and has led me to believe that we readers are seriously underestimating their ability to intuit what is happening just because they haven't read the books. Shame on us.

You make a good point, especially with regards to the wight attack. I still think the stableboy scene was rushed, though. The episode is called "the pointy end" in reference to that scene, it should have been dwelt upon a bit more.

Été, on 06 June 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

A classmate came up to me today, not having seen the new ep, and said, "So, I guess this episode is all about them busting Ned out?"
I was like, ooh, well he's only just been arrested, they have to gather the troops.
"Ah. Must be next episode then. It's stupid when the writers try to do stuff like this: he's the main character, I mean, we all know he's gonna be out in time to be totally hardcore in the finale!"

Yes he does talk like that, and oh to be a fly on the wall next week!

Hahaha man, I can't wait to see how shocked non-readers will be.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Été, on 06 June 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

That's unfair. She doesn't dump Dontos because she's found better friends. She quickly realises that he's weak and unreliable: as much as she wants to escape, she doubts that he will be able to help her and knows no-one else who can. We only see her in the company of Tyrells on two occasions, and she has to get her days in somehow when she isn't praying.

Jeyne and Arya do show selfishness, but she grimly assumes Arya is dead, and doesn't see Jeyne as her responsibility. She's a 12-year-old girl fearing for her own life and trying to save that of her father and siblings: I don't think it's so unforgivable to be overwhelmed by that.

Sansa didn't intend to get her father in trouble. She simply didn't understand the implications of what she told Cersei, and couldn't have predicted the consequences of her actions.

Disagree. By the time she joins with Margareth she stops going to the godswood and refuses Dontos even through he lay his plans to her and say they already have a scape plan in the day of Jofreys wedding. Also a bit latter, when the lannister discover she was going to flee with the Tyrells she says that only the Tyrells and Dontos knew of her marriage with Willas, and that Dontos didnt matter.

About her telling Cersei, that is ok. The problem is that she shows disregard for most of the people around her and has a cold personality.

[Ser Warpechowski]

The Warmth of Winter, on 06 June 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

Am I the only one who thought Robb's guard's line was pretty weird?
"He looked to be counting"
How the hell do you look like you're counting?

Raising your fingers?

[Trebla]

Pycelle harumphing about treason and traitors was even funnier on-screen. Hypocrisy is a quivering beard. Gods I can't wait to see him introduced to Shagga next season.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Bahimiron, on 06 June 2011 - 04:45 PM, said:

The Jon vs Thorne scene was a little bit of a let down if only because he doesn't actually do much to Thorne. At least in the book he runs down the table and kicks his stew out of his hand. Here all he does is get within five feet of him with a knife. You'd think that 'almost stabbings' would be kind of common the Wall, considering the tension of the setting and the sorts of people who go there. Seems like the kind of crime that comes with a sharp slap on the wrist and a 'hey, maybe you shouldn't stab people' admonishment.



I loved the notion that rather than writing the notes and sending them out as they're finished, Maester Luwin is keeping the ravens all cooped up until he's done so he can let them out in one go. He's probably thinking to himself, "Oh man, this shit is gonna be so metal. People are gonna be wandering by and see the castle and be all 'dang, that looks like an album cover!'"

The crow scene was awesome but it was clearly a poethic image. I doubt he would need to send that much ravens, and wouldnt be able to send them that fast.

UNLESS he had they all writen before (which is possible) and a huge team to atach all the messages to all the ravens.

Still an awesome scene. Its the kind of think I wish they had done in the other episodes. They used many camera tricks in this one, not only there but also when Bran is in the godswood, when Sansa pleas for her father and also when Robb is talking with his generals.

[Axon]

What's the matter? Khal got your tongue?

[Ser Warpechowski]

Asarlai, on 06 June 2011 - 06:26 PM, said:

I've been watching with my father, who had a thought that when Dany and the Dothraki took the kingdom, they'd do something like "Let the poor bastards in the dungeon out," but now he seems to think it'll be more like Robb or Stannis or Varys. Yeah, next episode is gonna be tough... Especially since Ned is probably the best-liked character for non-readers, from what I've seen. Then again, he was my favorite character at that point, too. Makes me realize how much the series has changed from the conflicts of early-mid GoT to the wars.

Yes, its absurd how you change your perception after reading it once. Ned´s death shocked me so much... Red wedding too, I didnt even knew it was coming.

My first read was like a drug and I just need my next fix. Whenever I readed a chapter I loved I almost jumped straight for the next chapter of that POV just to know what was going to happen. I hated Dany chapters because it kept me away from what was going on in Westeros. I readed Clash of Kings in 2 days due to my addiction.

What got me addicted was definitaly Ned´s death. Even through he was my fav his death told me that the story was being developed for itself, not for individual characters.

I opened a post on another forum to advertise this series and there are a lot of non-reader there. Some of they have readed on the internet people saying "Its in the next episode" and they have come up with all kinds of theories. One guy has these ones:

- Sobrenatural creatures of the North will advance and all the real will have to gather for a common good and leave the wars postponed.
- Khal Drogo will strike and hold the Lannisters between two military offensives.
- Dragons will awake and fuck everything!

Edited by Ser Warpechowski, 06 June 2011 - 08:00 PM.

[Kindly Old Man]

Does anyone else think the guy Drogo kills looks a lot like Mads Mikkelsen?

[Volderon]

Honestly guys, non-readers are going to be angry Ned dies, and won't watch the show anymore. Mark my words.

Books are different, but when you kill of a "main" character that was the spearhead in a tv series, people tend to get a little pissed.

[Aeron Greyjoy]

Axon, on 06 June 2011 - 07:27 PM, said:

What's the matter? Khal got your tongue?

What make this such a great scene is that Drogo has literally ripped out his throat.  That clearly is not a tongue which one would typically cut out.

[LadyT]

[quote name='valacirca' timestamp='1307374375' post=

- Arya pwns stableboy scene was too quick and featured the single most terrible editing job on the series to date.

[/quote]

I keep wondering if the really bad editing was on purpose.  Was the stabbing an accident?  People not familiar with the books can comfort themselves that it was, rather than think that an attractive child character just killed another child.  On the other hand, those of us who can handle Arya as written can still sort of tell ourselves it was deliberate, so they didn't risk ticking off the fanbase by clearly making it an accident.   It was just...muddled.  Whatever the truth, the scene was flat and disappointing.


I had wondered all along how even HBO was going to handle Arya.  This is not a mafia guy killing folks. this is a little girl, who will also be subjected to horrors we don't usually see children enduring outside of Holocaust films.  I find it too coincidental that I had feared that Arya's arc might be the trickiest thing to bring to the screen and damned if the very first time it was put to the test, we got the scene as shot.  I hope this was just an aberration and she gets her tale as written.

I was also disappointed in the wight scene.  It lacked eeriness or something.  We could barely see the thing as it rushed Jon.  I only liked the moment when Jon whipped out his sword.

For me, the weaknesses in the episode were nearly all in the directing.  It surprised me that, after all of the sex and nudity, the Dothraki rapes of the Lamb Ladies didn't show so much as a ripped bodice.  Just looked like a bunch of women in a rodeo round up.  I am not saying I needed more violence or wanted it, but it just looked silly to me and TVlandish.  Not like dothraki men on a raid.  When some real sex and violence was called for, they chickened out.  Now, if Roz had been visiting during that raid...

I would have enjoyed more with the Hound.

Loved Rickon's "No they won't" especially when one realizes that the writer of this episode is the only one who knows why Rickon is in the story...and why Shaggy Dog is so unlike his Disney name.

It was fun to see what the master thinks are the important points to emphasize.  And yes, I am with those who is glad that Sansa never went to Cersei.

[NW Deserter]

Volderon, on 06 June 2011 - 08:02 PM, said:

Honestly guys, non-readers are going to be angry Ned dies, and won't watch the show anymore. Mark my words.

Books are different, but when you kill of a "main" character that was the spearhead in a tv series, people tend to get a little pissed.

I guess we'll see.

Hopefully, even the people who don't feel like watching with Ned gone are still curious enough to see how the season ends. With the all the shit that happens in the finale, season 2 is set up to have a ton of big stories.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Volderon, on 06 June 2011 - 08:02 PM, said:

Honestly guys, non-readers are going to be angry Ned dies, and won't watch the show anymore. Mark my words.

Books are different, but when you kill of a "main" character that was the spearhead in a tv series, people tend to get a little pissed.

That is why they made almost all the character far more sympathetic.

- Arya didnt kill the stableboy on purpose.
- Cersei has been given extra time to develop the reasons for her actions.
- Theon had extra screen time and has been developed in a better way.

Now, after reading the books and reading some material about GRRM Ive noticed that the true main character of the series has never been Ned or any of the Starks. The true main character of the series is Tyrion. And there is already a lot of people, non reader mostly, who really like Tyrion and will probabily come back for next season.

A lot of people like Jon and Dany too, so I see them coming back for more.

Edited by Ser Warpechowski, 06 June 2011 - 08:24 PM.