[BOOK SPOILERS] Battles
Posted 06 June 2011 - 10:27 AM
In the book, the battle of the Green Fork was described in a fair amount of detail from Tyrion's POV, while the Whispering Wood was only partially described from Catelyn's POV. So I won't cry about if the Whispering Wood is not shown, but I would like it if the Green Fork was shown in all its glory (and gore). For example, there is one visual description where we are told of how the Lannister army deploys over the field.
So, I think this is another big test for HBO. Will we see a grand battle, or will it all be just around Tyrion and his wildlings?
I hope HBO did not fail this test, like Starz did. Camelot also had its battle this week (the battle of Bardon Pass), but in my book a dozen men against four times their number is not a battle, merely a skirmish.
Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:37 AM
While the battle at the crossroads is described in much more detail in the book, I find the participants of the battle in the Whispering Woods much more interesting, and its after all the most important of the two. I would prefer that they focused on that one in the episode, since Jaime has been the main "villain" of s1, and seeing The Young Wolfs army vs. the Kingslayers army feels more satisfying after all that build up.
Edited by Asharak, 07 June 2011 - 10:40 AM.
Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:31 AM
I at least hope Tyrion fights that knight and make him wield.
The Whispering Woods could be done easily, in the night, with dense woods and a valey with about 40 or 50 knights riding with Jaime in front. Then lots of horns and a charge. I hope they show us the part where Jaime charges toward Robb and gets knocked.
Now, they could use CG for the armies, I dont think it is that expensive right now. I play a game called Shogun 2: Total War and not only the armies look really good but Im pretty sure somehow that same technology could be used for TV.
Edited by Ser Warpechowski, 07 June 2011 - 11:33 AM.
Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:39 AM
Will they show him disembowelling the horse by headbutting it with his spiky helmet?
Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:40 PM
a) Jaime kills a lot of people leading his retinue to inches away from killing Robb
Robb killing a few people would add to his badass ratings to replace Ned next season, but if he actually gets to fight Jaime, it will be another nail in the entire point of Jaime losing his sword hand, unless they choose to advance the plot a whole season and skip the Red Wedding
c) they do at least show the 2 seperate battles
Posted 07 June 2011 - 04:16 PM
I'd much rather have the series without the 1-2 big fights/year and the budget remain lower, rather than jack up the costs which would put the series at a much higher risk of cancellation if the viewership is disappointing. Even one decently sized battle scene costs a LOT of money. Obviously it'd be great if the series had a $200 million budget and would never be canceled, but that's really not going to happen.
Look at what happened to Rome - I loved that show so much and yet they had to condense what was going to be four seasons into one just because HBO couldn't afford the extravagant budget (and Rome didn't even show any big battles - even so the production costs were tens of millions - with big battles it would have been ridiculous). Thankfully the budget for GOT is less than Rome, so it might be able to get away with lower ratings.
Edited by Lokhtar, 07 June 2011 - 04:23 PM.
Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:09 PM
Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:43 PM
Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:55 PM
Posted 08 June 2011 - 01:53 AM
It felt really cheap in Rome when they after 7 ep. of build up of the conflict between Caesar and Pompey they just skipped over the battle, they failed to deliver on the climax of that part of the series. Before the battle everyone in Caesars camp was sure they had no chance in hell for survival, and then 2 seconds later after skipping the fight he had "magically" won anyway. To me the victory felt unearned, because they didnít show the battle, it felt like Caesar just won because the "script demanded it".
After 8 episodes of build up to the fights between the Lanisters and Starks, we need to see some fighting between the Lannisters and Starks, because thatís where the show has been leading us, or else it will ring false. At least to me.
Posted 08 June 2011 - 04:18 AM
Since Tyrion's proficiency with an axe was omitted in the Wildling fight, it'd be a nice addition in Ep 9. The trailer clip has a nice shot of him in armor, so I think we're due some Tyrion ass-kicking.
I expect the episode will flow a lot like the books - Green Fork from Tyrion POV, Whispering Woods via hearsay. I wouldn't expect much production value or substance for the Green Fork, however.
Posted 08 June 2011 - 04:58 AM
Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:00 AM
Of course I'd like to get some feel of battle, especially men crying in pain and asking for mercy, because that what really stood out for me in Martin's delivery of battle scenes.
Shot of CGI armies might help to establish some epic feel, and the terrain of the riverlands (woods, hills, rivers) might ease out the work on them.
But as long as they don't handle it the way they handled the Hand's Tournament I'll be okay.
Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:42 AM
Honestly, though, I wouldn't be surprised if we see something along the lines of what we saw in Rome - prelude to battle with a bunch of extras lined up on a ridge or something (letting your imagination fill in the thousands of additional troops where you can't see them), a "battle" scene consisting of some close-up fights and sound effects to give you the sense of a large battle having just occurred, with quick cut to aftermath where what happened in the battle is explained in dialogue instead of it having been actually shown to you.
Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:24 AM
Part 1 of the battle:
Posted 08 June 2011 - 12:03 PM
Well, in that series, battles that should've involved hundreds of infantry columns were reduced to thirty men on screen. In almost every episode. But it didn't take away the sense of danger, intensity and adventure of battle.
Asharak's link is a good example. A smart film maker (or TV producers in GoT's case) would make good use of close up shots, editing, some sound effects and epic music.
Posted 08 June 2011 - 12:34 PM
My personal favorite engagement (mostly because of the stuff from 4:30 and onwards) in the series, from Sharpeís Eagle:
Posted 09 June 2011 - 12:33 AM
Part 1 of the battle:
Excellent example of what D&D should be going for, if they don't have a Peter Jackson-ian budget. Branagh's "Henry V" was awesome.
Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:04 AM
They could use something like Massive
which was originally made for Lotr. The program itself is not that expensive ($17,999), but you still have to train a few people to use it as well as build up a large library of different soldier models and animations for them. You also have to integrate the simulated battle with the live action and the landscape. This is very time consuming stuff and a big investment. Also if they had made that investment, they would probably have used it for the Dothraki horde on the march and the tourney crowd.
I imagine restricting camera angles to not show too many soldiers at a time, as well as using some crowd duplication techniques would be more doable on their budget. This is also what HBO has been doing before I think.