[BOOK SPOILERS] Battles
Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:31 AM
No hopes for the Blackwater. Some hopes for Winterfell.
Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:40 AM
The Hound tells Tyrion of the horrors outside the walls and deserts. Then a long talking scene with Sansa happens. Tyrion gives a long speech to his men and is seen charging out of the gates with his men. Fade to black. He wakes up in a bed and Pod tells him of his heroic deeds and how Renly's ghost saved the day. Davos gives a long speech and then commands his lone ship to enter fiery haze with everything obscured by smoke. Fade to black. He wakes up in Sallador's ship and is told of what happened. No actual fighting happens.
I'll repost this after the Blackwater airs.
Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:43 AM
When the show basically wrote off the direwolves completely the last few episodes I figured that CGI wasn't really in the budget and that we wouldn't see a larger version of Grey Wind or Ghost. And early scenes like the Hand's Tournament had sparsely a hundred extras in that scene as spectators, as opposed to the book where thousands from all over the realm come the King's Landing to spectate and participate. If HBO scaled down the Hand's Tournament then of course they would either scale down or eliminate battle sequences.
The worst is that we barely even see Robb's army, for people who haven't read the books it must be difficult for them to understand that Robb marches with 18,000 men behind him. It seems like Robb leads a band of maybe dozens if you are only a television viewer.
Very odd choices from HBO so far in the show and I can't say that I am impressed. Odd things like giving Littlefinger the Hound's lines about his burns and cutting Jorah's "when the high lords play their game of thrones" line puzzle me and I guess they'll be trying and failing to improve upon GRRM's work. Maybe they don't respect the source material enough and they think that they can do better than GRRM on his own story?
Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:49 AM
Edited by Anomandaris86, 14 June 2011 - 03:49 AM.
Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:10 AM
I guess for some folks, like me, there was an expectation to see more 'cool stuff'. I mean, the intro and the establishing shots for various locations were great...so I kinda assumed that we would see 'more'.
The Hand's tournament was disappointing (I really wanted to see Thoros, and I think my friend wanted a better intro for Dondarrion), but kinda understandable.
The lack of showing the battles in this episode, even one of them (particularly the one for the Whispering Woods) was rather...sad.
Oh well, I hope they do show battles and stuff next season (I wonder if they'll ever show the Ironborn AT sea. I mean, if they can't show a skirmish in the woods, at night... *shrugs* )
Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:46 AM
Posted 14 June 2011 - 05:13 AM
If I remember it correctly...
In the books Robb takes all his knights and mounted men west towards Rivverrun where they surprise Jamie and his three hosts. As far as I can recall, they took about 7000 men (uncluding the men from the Twins). The rest of his forces (the foot and their commanders, Lord Bolton ect) move south toward the Ruby ford where they engage Lord Tywin.
Bolton is left in charge of that host because he knows that he won't overcommit in the battle against Tywin. He'll attack then withdraw, enabling Robb to lift the siege on Rivverrun.
Posted 14 June 2011 - 05:23 AM
They really could have shown some of the battle in the Whispering Woods. I really felt like they missed their chance there. It is Robbs first taste of battle, we really get to see how good Jamie is, the sons of Karstark/Umber dying, it could have been some powerful stuff. Instead we get some riders galloping across fields filled with snow (also wtf, snow? Riverrun isn't THAT far north of King's Landing which is shown to have a Mediterranean climate.), and a super lame speech.
Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:43 AM
i didnt like how they robbed us of the whispering wood, iirc it was more a skirmish with a few knights as jaime was rather over confident with his siege of riverrun and often went out with his scouts, so numbers shouldnt be a problem with regards to cost..
and in the books i really loved jaimes 'i would offer you my sword, but i seemed to have misplaced it' knowing full well that it was 'misplaced' in one of lord karstark's sons neck.. without seeing that it lost its dark humour and arrogance for me.
i just hope they have saved budget for next weeks episode, a bit worried that dany is going to come out of the fire with spyro, yoshi and godzuki around her!
still though, i am loving this adaptation, its only a opinion on my part, but the more i think about it and the more comments i read, the more sceptical i become. i know non-book readers i have encouraged to watch this have been asking me when are we gonna see some action... i promised them this episode would be full of it... oh well
Edited by stannis for king, 14 June 2011 - 07:43 AM.
Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:22 PM
Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:38 PM
Whether there's 2000 or 12000 men for Tywin's army to fight doesn't really matter once he's engaged to the battle. The thing was that he had to think all of Robb's army was there so they couldn't get a message to the other army to warn them. If the surprise is already complete it doesn't matter that Tywin knows he's been had as soon as he can see the army.
Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:39 PM
Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:53 PM
Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:09 PM
Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:39 PM
Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:33 PM
It appears your worries were well justified.
Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:55 PM
I think that putting subtitles for locations would have helped. If I hadn't read the books, I wouldn't know where the 'other battle' was.
Something like, for the aftermath of the battle of the Green Fork, in subtitles, during the scene showing the aftermath:
"Aftermath of the Battle of the Green Fork (in smaller letters "The Riverlands")"
Then at the scene where Robb was arriving:
"The Whispering Woods (in smaller letters: "The Riverlands, West <right?> of the Green Fork")"
Or something like that. the same for other locations (like: "The Sept of Baelor (in smaller letters: "the holiest sept of the Faith of the Seven")")
...or characters (think old WW2 movies where they show something like, Generalfeldmarschall Erich von Manstein, Commander, Army Group South. Ex.: while Tywin is present and in focus, subtitles saying: "Tywin Lannister (in smaller letters: "Lord of House Lannister, Shield of Lannisport and Warden of the West")")
IMHO, that would've helped with generating, if only a little, a better 'sense of scale'. (I'm pretty sure subtitles won't 'hurt the budget'...)
Posted 15 June 2011 - 05:50 AM
Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. In the books, Robb sends the majority of his force against Tywin and Bolton tries to attack them in surprise(they forced marched during the night) trying to catch him off guard. Tywin of course had scouts that spotted this host coming, but since it was the majority of the Stark host, they did not think to go "hey where are all those other guys?".
Tywin has a host of 30,000 men, and 2,000 march on him? How do his scouts not tell him that? Are we to believe he DOESN'T have scouts for miles around? So what exactly is the difference between him and Stafford Lannister? Whose mistakes of not posting sentries is vilified by pretty much everyone in the books...In fact, that would make Tywin even MORE of an idiot than Uncle Dolt. Since Dolty was actually in Lannister territory.
Edited by Nihilist, 15 June 2011 - 05:51 AM.
Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:31 AM
Look at the maps and see where they split and where they actually end fighting. There is a lot of ground to cover and a lot of oportunities for scouting.
Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:00 AM
Tywin has an over-inflated reputation as a commander, and he shows it here by grossly under-estimating his opponent and taking the bait that is laid out before him. Makes sense to me.