101 replies to this topic

[Lann]

i'm glad there's going to so many dany chapters.  it certainly seems like these 4 chapters will probably be condensed in 2 or 3.  just too much overlap.

[Goddess Dictator]

When is Dany going to DO something. bah.

[Ealasaid]

The Goddess Dictator, on Jun 21 2006, 15.32, said:

When is Dany going to DO something. bah.

I concur.  She bores me.

And with all the emphasis on the dragons, she has done nothing to learn to control them.  They are fair game for anyone with a --- horn, let's say.

[Harry the Heir]

Ealasaid, on Jun 30 2006, 04.01, said:

And with all the emphasis on the dragons, she has done nothing to learn to control them.  They are fair game for anyone with a --- horn, let's say.

That's not strictly true. And in any case, it seems to me that Dany deserves a bit of sympathy on this issue. It's not as if the proper training regimen for dragons is any better known to us than it is to her.

[Goddess Dictator]

Ealasaid, on Jun 30 2006, 01.01, said:

I concur.  She bores me.

And with all the emphasis on the dragons, she has done nothing to learn to control them.  They are fair game for anyone with a --- horn, let's say.

I KNOW.... "I'm going to Westeros to reclaim my throne"... maybe when she's ninety.   :rolleyes:

Edited by The Goddess Dictator, 11 July 2006 - 07:07 PM.

[outremer84]

Sorry to be off topic but you guys seem to know your stuff.

I presume these spoiler chapters are from the AFFC promotional novellette handed out before AFFC was released.

If so, where can I get at them? I can read the chapter summaries but i really want to read the original prose.

If anyone could help me out with a link i'd be chuffed.

[Greythorne]

outremer84, on Jul 12 2006, 05.42, said:

Sorry to be off topic but you guys seem to know your stuff.

I presume these spoiler chapters are from the AFFC promotional novellette handed out before AFFC was released.

If so, where can I get at them? I can read the chapter summaries but i really want to read the original prose.

If anyone could help me out with a link i'd be chuffed.

Most of these chapters are written down from readings that Martin has done here and there - the only ones available in prose are the first Dany chapter from the end of aFfC, and the first Tyrion chapter that is on Martin's website, as far as I know at least.  

The others, I think you would have to ask George himself for his manuscripts. :)

[Jon Targaryen]

outremer84, on Jul 12 2006, 03.42, said:

Sorry to be off topic but you guys seem to know your stuff.

I presume these spoiler chapters are from the AFFC promotional novellette handed out before AFFC was released.

If so, where can I get at them? I can read the chapter summaries but i really want to read the original prose.

If anyone could help me out with a link i'd be chuffed.

You can't get this one but you can get two new ones and the one included at the end of AFFC off Ebay. They are in a promotional booklet handed out at a publisher's convention.

[Lion]

It is possible that this is 4th chapter in book,but 2th chapter with Daenerys.I think similar thing happend with Tyrion.

[snuffy]

I really hope that there is another Targ (like Jon or even Tyrion). Dany is a deluded tree hugger. She refuses to see what is good for the city just because it is morally reprehensible and still thinks she has improved the slaves' lives. She is also mislead in everything that happened during her father's reign. That man was insane! One of the most annoying parts of these books was when Dany questioned Ned's honor because he rose up against his "rightful king". The king who burned and strangled his brother and father. The king whose son stole his sister. I want to know what exactly she thinks about Rhaegar stealing Lyanna. I bet she believes it was in his "rights". I really hope she dies or that Tyrion comes and slaps some sense into her. Or that Jaime could meet her so he could tell her about how "honorable" her father was. Barristan should be telling her that her father was a crazy old coot and she shouldn't come into Westeros condemning the house the houses that rose up against him. He needs to tell her that he found her father foul and insane and Viserys as well and that's why he went over to Robert at the end. He needs to fucking educate that bitch!! Good lord, she's a misguided idiot! How can she rule Westeros?

Edited by snuffy, 20 August 2006 - 12:33 PM.

[A wilding]

snuffy, on Aug 20 2006, 18.32, said:

I want to know what exactly she thinks about Rhaegar stealing Lyanna.

Well apparently she believes that Rhaegar loved Lyanna and died for her. So perhaps the version she heard is that Lyanna fled from her cruel fiance Robert to Rhaegar's protection ...

It does seem like Barristan is going to tell her the truth as he sees it though.

[Donnachaidh]

A wilding, on Aug 20 2006, 22.35, said:

Well apparently she believes that Rhaegar loved Lyanna and died for her. So perhaps the version she heard is that Lyanna fled from her cruel fiance Robert to Rhaegar's protection ...

It does seem like Barristan is going to tell her the truth as he sees it though.

My problem is that Barristan is taking his own sweet time in telling her. Also I suspect he will mince his words. If Tyrion shows he will tell her the cold hard truth even if she's not in the mood for it. How she reacts upon hearing this all, and whether or not she can accept it and learn from it will ultimately determine for me whether or not I think Dany is fit to rule Westeros.

[Mezeh]

snuffy, on Aug 20 2006, 12.32, said:

I really hope that there is another Targ (like Jon or even Tyrion).

I’m pretty sure that Dany is not the only surviving Targ. Martin told once that it is not necessary that all three heads of dragons will be Targs but this could imply that two of then would.

[Ser Daven Lannister]

TrackerNeil, on Apr 25 2006, 08.12, said:

[...]whereas Cersei thinks she was just born to rule.

So does Dany. But unlike Cersei, she's right.

Neither one of them knows the first thing about ruling. But, again, unlike Cersei, Dany admits this to herself and is trying to do something about it.

Neither one of them knows who to listen to. But, unlike Cersei, Dany intends on learning instead of doing whatever she feels like.

I think this was GRRM's intention of having Dany and Cersei both in AFfC -- showing the decline of one and the rise of the other. That would've been beautiful. Alas for the split!

[Daedalus V2.0]

Jonn Lannister, on Oct 27 2006, 22.40, said:

So does Dany. But unlike Cersei, she's right.

Neither one of them knows the first thing about ruling. But, again, unlike Cersei, Dany admits this to herself and is trying to do something about it.

Neither one of them knows who to listen to. But, unlike Cersei, Dany intends on learning instead of doing whatever she feels like.

I think this was GRRM's intention of having Dany and Cersei both in AFfC -- showing the decline of one and the rise of the other. That would've been beautiful. Alas for the split!

This is almost certainly because Cercei believed that she was infallible, while Dany knows that a major misstep would ahnialate all of her goals. I believe that Cercei was included as a pov largely to highlight the things that Dany was doing right, but also to show the similarities, and therefore the flaws in Dany's character. (eg- Dany is too willing to trust people, especially the untamed mob of freedmen, while Cercei is absolutely certain that nobody would dare to betray her, which both amount to the same thing).

I hope that these chapters are simply a nice, subtle setup for some major events, like in the beginning of AGoT. In the first two books Dany was my favorite character, I would hate it if the trend of disappointing Dany chapters continues.

[Etulftune]

snuffy, on Aug 20 2006, 12.32, said:

Dany is a deluded tree hugger. She refuses to see what is good for the city just because it is morally reprehensible and still thinks she has improved the slaves' lives.

I guess that she hasn't read Macchiavelli's The Prince or its Westerosi equivalent.   ;)

[MagtheMighty]

So, what do you make of that scene at the end?  The best female fighter duels a boar, but is killed.  Then a dragon appears and kills the boar.  That has to have a metaphorical meaning.  The dragon probably represents the Targaryens, since it is their sigil.  The boar?  Well, we know that a boar killed King Robert.  And we know that it was only able to kill Robert because Cersei had Lancel drug his wine.  So, really, Cersei killed Robert.  Maybe the boar represents Cersei.  And after all, she is borish.  Who is the best female fighter in Westeros?  Brienne of Tarth, of course, Brienne the Beauty.  So, maybe we've got a little foreshadowing going on here.  Cersei will kill Brienne.  Then, one of the Targaryens will kill Cersei.  Now, the dragon in this scene is Drogon.  He is the most dangerous of the three dragon, so I think he represents John Snow or Daenarys.

Cersei kills Brienne.  John or Dany kill Cersei.  

What do you all think?

[Arataniello]

MagtheMighty, on Dec 13 2006, 22.29, said:

So, what do you make of that scene at the end?  The best female fighter duels a boar, but is killed.  Then a dragon appears and kills the boar.  That has to have a metaphorical meaning.  The dragon probably represents the Targaryens, since it is their sigil.  The boar?  Well, we know that a boar killed King Robert.  And we know that it was only able to kill Robert because Cersei had Lancel drug his wine.  So, really, Cersei killed Robert.  Maybe the boar represents Cersei.  And after all, she is borish.  Who is the best female fighter in Westeros?  Brienne of Tarth, of course, Brienne the Beauty.  So, maybe we've got a little foreshadowing going on here.  Cersei will kill Brienne.  Then, one of the Targaryens will kill Cersei.  Now, the dragon in this scene is Drogon.  He is the most dangerous of the three dragon, so I think he represents John Snow or Daenarys.

Cersei kills Brienne.  John or Dany kill Cersei.  

What do you all think?

I think you may be reaching a bit.  Why does the fight in the arena "have" to have a metaphorical meaning?  If you want to look for who the boar represents, the boar is the sigil of House Crakehall.  I can't come up with any believable chain of events whereby a Crakehall is killed by a Targaryen for any reason that has any relevance in the future direction of the story.

Aratan

[MagtheMighty]

Aratan, on Dec 14 2006, 11.02, said:

I think you may be reaching a bit.  Why does the fight in the arena "have" to have a metaphorical meaning?  If you want to look for who the boar represents, the boar is the sigil of House Crakehall.  I can't come up with any believable chain of events whereby a Crakehall is killed by a Targaryen for any reason that has any relevance in the future direction of the story.

Aratan

I realize that the boar is the sigil of Crakehall, and I agree with you that there is no believable chain of events whereby a Crakehall is killed by a Targaryen.  And if there was, who would care?  In addition, you're right to point out that I was imprecise in saying that the fight in the arena "has" to have a metaphorical meaning;  I did not mean it is required to have a metaphorical meaning.  What I meant was that scene seems like the kind of thing that is likely to foreshadow future events.

Killed by a boar?  When you're a gladiator?  What gladiator fights a boar?  Gladiators tend to fight more exotic wild beasts, like lions or tigers.  Could they fight anything?  Sure, but then if we open the potential opponent up to the whole world, why choose a boar?  What really good gladiator gets killed by a boar?  Remember, Robert killed lots of boars (as someone, Ned?, stated) without incident; he only got killed by that last one because he was drugged.  Also, why have the boar subsequently killed by a dragon?  G.R.R.M. being the type of writer he is, I think he had some point to the ending.  I'm advancing one, admittedly speculative, possible point.

Of course, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  But it's fun to try to guess what else it might be.

[Arataniello]

MagtheMighty, on Dec 15 2006, 00.21, said:

I realize that the boar is the sigil of Crakehall, and I agree with you that there is no believable chain of events whereby a Crakehall is killed by a Targaryen.  And if there was, who would care?  In addition, you're right to point out that I was imprecise in saying that the fight in the arena "has" to have a metaphorical meaning;  I did not mean it is required to have a metaphorical meaning.  What I meant was that scene seems like the kind of thing that is likely to foreshadow future events.

Killed by a boar?  When you're a gladiator?  What gladiator fights a boar?  Gladiators tend to fight more exotic wild beasts, like lions or tigers.  Could they fight anything?  Sure, but then if we open the potential opponent up to the whole world, why choose a boar?  What really good gladiator gets killed by a boar?  Remember, Robert killed lots of boars (as someone, Ned?, stated) without incident; he only got killed by that last one because he was drugged.  Also, why have the boar subsequently killed by a dragon?  G.R.R.M. being the type of writer he is, I think he had some point to the ending.  I'm advancing one, admittedly speculative, possible point.

Of course, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  But it's fun to try to guess what else it might be.

My thoughts upon hearing of that scene was that it was intended to provide a mechanism for everyone in Meereen to see that Drogon eat humans.   So a gladiator had to die in the newly-reopened fighting pits, and GRRM selected a boar to be the beast doing the killing.  As to why he picked a boar, I have no idea.  Perhaps for variety, since we have already seen a bear (at Harrenhal), plenty of wolves (wherever the Starks are) and a feline (in Jon's chapters north of the Wall).  

Aratan