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The Wiseman´s Fear VI (Spoilers and discussion)


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#181 unJon

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 09:55 PM

View Postgaillard, on 07 July 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

Greetings Everyone. First I'd just like to say thanks for all the interesting discussion around the book. It's impressive what you all have dug up.


There's something I just noticed which now leads me to believe the Maer is the current king.

When Kvothe first meets the Maer:




Then later when the soldiers enter the Waystone where Kvothe takes a beating:




Regardless of who the soldiers actually were, they were supposed to be two of the king's own men. Dressed in blue and white tabards which also happens to be the Maer's colors.
Holy cow, that's a great catch!

#182 Sylvester

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 02:51 AM

Yeah, I can't help but agree. And this gives a tremendous advantage to the killed king=Roderick theory.

#183 thistlepong

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 10:56 PM

It looks good.  Do we know the colors for Calanthis and Jakis?

#184 jumbles

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 11:27 PM

View Postthistlepong, on 11 July 2011 - 10:56 PM, said:

It looks good.  Do we know the colors for Calanthis and Jakis?

I don't recall the Calanthis colors being mentioned. But I do know that in NotW chapter 37 Ambrose wears a "blinding white linen shirt" and a "richly-dyed blue vest." And in WMF chapter 7 he wears "clean white linen, velvet, and brocade" and "a hat with a tall white plume." However these are never said to be his family's colors. And he is mentioned wearing other colors at other times.

Edited by jumbles, 11 July 2011 - 11:28 PM.


#185 thistlepong

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 09:43 AM

I vaguely remember the blue/white combination being confirmed for another Vintish family, but I'm not motivated to pursue it.  Alveron makes as good a Penitent King as Ambrose, better even.

Over on the Tor re-read, an infrequent poster here, chrispin, put forth the notion that "He beats her, you know." from the Cthaeh's monologue could refer to tak; comparing Bredon's response when Kvothe gets to big for his britches with "sometimes in a temper, but mostly it's a game to him" &c.

It doesn't explain the blood in Denna's mouth or the bruises, but it potentially separates them.  A few folks here cleave to the training theory and it recontextualizes the statements.  Her welts are thumb sized but bruised down to the bone, consistent with relatively like strikes where bones are near the surface: blocking a cane with the shin or outer forearm for example.  A light blow like that delivered to the skull could send one unconscious.  Bruising to the bone on the thigh or upper arm would cause deep tissue trauma and bruising over a vast area.

Food for thought.

#186 eevjuhh

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 04:43 PM

Hi everyone, this is my first post :)
I have a couple things to say/ask that I haven't seen here before (maybe I just missed them though)

1. I think Denna's ring (silver with a pale blue stone) can detect if someone is lying. Because she wears it constantly in NOTW, and while wearing it she catches kvothe at every single lie he tells. Even the one about why he was in Trebon, where kvothe said himself that it was an exceptionally good lie and would even check out if she'd ask around. Still she catches him at it. But in the second book, when she isn't wearing her ring anymore, she does not catch him at several lies (I can't remember exactly, I'll have to look it up again) while they are in Severen and she isn't wearing her ring. So basically when she wears the ring she knows every single lie he tells, but when she doesn't wear it anymore she suddenly loses the ability..

2. I don't know if this was discussed before but I think that Folly is cinder's sword. Because in one chapter the light is described, but when it touches the sword it is said that the sword did not reflect any light (or something like that).
Then we kvothe sees cinder it is said that 'neither his eyes nor his sword reflected any light'  And since Folly isn't caesura I think it is very possible that it is in fact cinder's sword.

3. I think Auri is princess Ariel. Because the names are very close and Auri has very good manners and is formal all the time.  She has little formal dinners and bows and everything, that certainly indicates that she was brought up in a rich an formal household. Like a princess would be. And Elodin seems very interested in her, wich means she is probably someone special

I would really like to know what the rest of you think of this

#187 Merihathor

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:13 PM

View Postjumbles, on 10 July 2011 - 10:46 AM, said:

I believe this is the post Merihathor is referring to.

Yup, that's the one. Thanks for finding that, Jumbles :-)

#188 Merihathor

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:19 PM

View Posteevjuhh, on 13 July 2011 - 04:43 PM, said:

Hi everyone, this is my first post :)
I have a couple things to say/ask that I haven't seen here before (maybe I just missed them though)

1. I think Denna's ring (silver with a pale blue stone) can detect if someone is lying. Because she wears it constantly in NOTW, and while wearing it she catches kvothe at every single lie he tells. Even the one about why he was in Trebon, where kvothe said himself that it was an exceptionally good lie and would even check out if she'd ask around. Still she catches him at it. But in the second book, when she isn't wearing her ring anymore, she does not catch him at several lies (I can't remember exactly, I'll have to look it up again) while they are in Severen and she isn't wearing her ring. So basically when she wears the ring she knows every single lie he tells, but when she doesn't wear it anymore she suddenly loses the ability..

I hadn't even noticed that. Very interesting :-)

View Posteevjuhh, on 13 July 2011 - 04:43 PM, said:

2. I don't know if this was discussed before but I think that Folly is cinder's sword. Because in one chapter the light is described, but when it touches the sword it is said that the sword did not reflect any light (or something like that).
Then we kvothe sees cinder it is said that 'neither his eyes nor his sword reflected any light'  And since Folly isn't caesura I think it is very possible that it is in fact cinder's sword.

I had thought that at one point too, but I'm also wondering if Kvothe renamed Caesura and thus changed its nature (so, reshaped it, if you will). So, I'm not sure yet and I look forward to finding out.

View Posteevjuhh, on 13 July 2011 - 04:43 PM, said:

3. I think Auri is princess Ariel. Because the names are very close and Auri has very good manners and is formal all the time.  She has little formal dinners and bows and everything, that certainly indicates that she was brought up in a rich an formal household. Like a princess would be. And Elodin seems very interested in her, wich means she is probably someone special

I would really like to know what the rest of you think of this

The hints seem to indicate this, but I'm not sure yet who she really is. I'm always a bit hesitant at times with Rothfuss and his hints, as I'm not always sure if he's trying to mislead, or actually sharing shades of the truth.

In any case, thanks for sharing your thoughts! I always enjoy hearing new ideas. Welcome!

Edited by Merihathor, 13 July 2011 - 06:20 PM.


#189 jumbles

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:28 PM

Welcome to the discussion eevjuhh.

1. I'll take your word about Denna's ability to detect lies with and without her ring (it sounds about right). But without more evidence I'll chalk it up to coincidence.

2. This has been brought up once but they didn't offer any evidence for it. Folly and Cinder's sword do seem similar and I wouldn't be surprised if they were one in the same. But while Cinder's sword doesn't reflect light, Folly is said to shine in the room's light (to shine in the light it would have to reflect light).

3. This has been discussed a bit already. Here is a post agreeing with your position, and here is a post that disagrees.

#190 Kmmontandon

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:15 PM

I'll be damned ...

Did anyone else notice that in the second-to-last paragraph of the book, it describes Kvothe/Kote beginning to go through the Ketan?  I can't believe I missed that, and hadn't noticed it mentioned before.

#191 Dot Seth

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 09:46 AM

cuadicuss had an alchemy book, so we know that he knows alchemy. we know kvothe doesn't know jack about alchemy, he says it constantly.  alchemy means the temperature of the "medicine" DOES matter.  and wrong temp meds will kill birds.  maer illness is known to be sporadic, there is no evidence that his symptoms didn't go away on their own or that they will not suddenly reappear. like someone else pointed out, he did not match all the symptoms for kvothe's diagnosis.

i think this is MORE than enough evidence.  any one want to agree/disagree?

#192 Tears of Lys

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 12:28 AM

View PostKmmontandon, on 14 July 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

I'll be damned ...

Did anyone else notice that in the second-to-last paragraph of the book, it describes Kvothe/Kote beginning to go through the Ketan?  I can't believe I missed that, and hadn't noticed it mentioned before.

Funny you should mention that.  Upon completion of my third reread today, I suddenly noticed that too.  Can't figure out why I didn't notice it before either.  I guess there's a tendency to skip past the silences of three parts after you've gotten the idea.  Kvothe/Kote has had his ass handed to him in present time pretty thoroughly.  Book 3 undoubtedly will return him to his former glory.  We all knew it would happen anyway, but it's nice to note a foreshadowing of it.   Like Bast, we want our Reshi to step up to the plate.

#193 harvv

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 07:06 PM

View PostSer Scot A Ellison, on 07 July 2011 - 11:17 AM, said:

What if the Maer is evil and Cadicus was an Amyr working for the greater good.

Ooooo never crossed my mind.  It could make sense though for sure.  As the tree told kvothe that someone in contact with the maer was an Amyr and that kvothe may have already crossed paths with them or something like that.  I think thats a good idea.

#194 jumbles

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 01:55 AM

I just finished my second read-through of The Wise Man’s Fear, and I’ve got a lot of stuff to post. I’m going to spread it out over a few days though because I don’t want to flood the thread with too much information at once.

1. The Lackless box smelled like spicewood and lemon, which was maddeningly familiar to Kvothe. Earlier, in the Fae, the Cthaeh’s tree smelled "like smoke and spice and leather and lemon." Could the Lackless box be made of wood from the Cthaeh’s tree (or a similar one)?

2. Kvothe said that the Lackless box "wanted to be opened," while Jax’s box was "meant for keeping things inside."

3. Kvothe swore by his hand that he would speak to no one about the Lackless box.

4. The Kaepcaen family is an offshoot of the Locklesses. Kæp is Danish for stick. "Caen" sounds like "cane" if you pronounce it like an American (I don’t know if all English speakers would pronounce it this way). Also, Caen is a French commune whose name seems to originate from the Gaulish words catu-, referring to military activities and magos, field, hence meaning "manoeuvre field" or "battlefield". Caen also is related to seven in this universe: "Chaen" is Temic for seven, and Caenin is the seventh day of the span. Maybe a stick/cane, battlefield, and/or the number seven is important to the Kaepcaens.

5. The Laclith family is an offshoot of the Locklesses. Kvothe learned woodcraft and wilderness survival from a huntsman named Laclith who traveled with his troupe for nearly a whole season.

6. Before working with Kvothe; Marten, Dedan, and Hespe scouted the lands around Tinuë for the Maer. Perhaps trouble is brewing with Tinuë?

7. In Trapis’ story, Perial is Menda’s mother. There is also a character named Perial in the play For All His Waiting. There is also a character named Fain that wants to try on her hat. Maybe Fain is supposed to represent the Faen realm and/or the play tells a story that really happened?

8. Ergen (the empire from the Creation War) was influenced by the Shapers. Felurian said that they made a silver tree in Murella whose fruit made the eater’s eyes and mouth shine in the dark. Do we know for sure that Ergen wasn’t a nation of Shapers rather than Knowers? This would have interesting implications since Lanre betrayed Ergen and Selitos remained loyal.

9. Felurian calls Iax a "shaper of the dark and changing eye." Finol, the owner of Caesura who died at Drossen Tor, was "of the clear and shining eye." Also, Kvothe’s eyes change color with his mood.

10. The rings Bast has in his room in WMFc151 are all rings that Bredon describes the commoners as using in WMFc65.

11. Prince Regent Alaitis was killed in a duel. If there was a regent, that means King Roderic wasn’t ruling. The only reasons I can think or are: he was away, he was physically ill, he was mentally unfit, he was too young.

12. Krin’s last name is Walker. So is Jacob’s (one of Kote’s regulars). Could they be related?

13. Kvothe’s parents saw a loden-stone in Peleresin. Resin is the rune for rock.

Edited by jumbles, 21 July 2011 - 10:57 AM.


#195 thistlepong

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 02:30 PM

View Postjumbles, on 18 July 2011 - 01:55 AM, said:

I just finished my second read-through of The Wise Man’s Fear, and I’ve got a lot of stuff to post. I’m going to spread it out over a few days though because I don’t want to flood the thread with too much information at once.

1. The Lackless box smelled like spicewood and lemon, which was maddeningly familiar to Kvothe. Earlier, in the Fae, the Cthaeh’s tree smelled "like smoke and spice and leather and lemon." Could the Lackless box be made of wood from the Cthaeh’s tree (or a similar one)?

2. Kvothe said that the Lackless box "wanted to be opened," while Jax’s box was "meant for keeping things inside."

3. Kvothe swore by his hand that he would speak to no one about the Lackless box.

4. The Kaepcaen family is an offshoot of the Locklesses. Kæp is Danish for stick. "Caen" sounds like "cane" if you pronounce it like an American (I don’t know if all English speakers would pronounce it this way). Also, Caen is a French commune whose name seems to originate from the Gaulish words catu-, referring to military activities and magos, field, hence meaning "manoeuvre field" or "battlefield". Caen also is related to seven in this universe: "Chaen" is Temic for seven, and Caenin is the seventh day of the span. Maybe a stick/cane, battlefield, and/or the number seven is important to the Kaepcaens.

5. The Laclith family is an offshoot of the Locklesses. Kvothe learned woodcraft and wilderness survival from a huntsman named Laclith who traveled with his troupe for nearly a whole season.

6. Before working with Kvothe; Marten, Dedan, and Hespe scouted the lands around Tinuë for the Maer. Perhaps trouble is brewing with Tinuë?

7. In Trapis’ story, Perial is Menda’s mother. There is also a character named Perial in the play For All His Waiting. There is also a character named Fain that wants to try on her hat. Maybe Fain is supposed to represent the Faen realm and/or the play tells a story that really happened?

8. Ergen (the empire from the Creation War) was influenced by the Shapers. Felurian said that they made a silver tree in Murella whose fruit made the eater’s eyes and mouth shine in the dark. Do we know for sure that Ergen wasn’t a nation of Shapers rather than Knowers? This would have interesting implications since Lanre betrayed Ergen and Selitos remained loyal.

9. Felurian calls Iax a "shaper of the dark and changing eye." Finol, the owner of Caesura who died at Drossen Tor, was "of the clear and shining eye." Also, Kvothe’s eyes change color with his mood.

10. The rings Bast has in his room in WMFc151 are all rings that Bredon describes the commoners as using in WMFc65.

11. Prince Regent Alaitis was killed in a duel. If there was a regent, that means King Roderic wasn’t ruling. The only reasons I can think or are: he was away, he was physically ill, he was mentally unfit, he was too young.

12. Krin’s last name is Walker. So is Jacob’s (one of Kote’s regulars). Could they be related?

13. Kvothe’s parents saw a loden-stone in Peleresin. Resin is the rune for rock.

  • Could the Lackless box be made of wood from the Cthaeh’s tree (or a similar one)?

    The Loeclos box is made from rhinna wood. Searching seems to be disabled at the moment, but I posted the relevant quotes in an earlier thread.

  • Kvothe said that the Lackless box "wanted to be opened," while Jax’s box was "meant for keeping things inside."

    Jax’s box ≠ Loeclos box.  “The Boy Who Loved the Moon” is the allegorical retelling of the incident that sparked the Creation War.  Felurian confirms that the moon was pulled into Faen and must return because they have a piece of her name.  If the Loeclos contained that piece, in the Four Corners, the moon wouldn’t need to move.

  • Kvothe swore by his hand that he would speak to no one about the Lackless box.WMF c139 kl 18259

    That’s actually pretty interesting.  We’ve collectively been fopcused on his oath to Denna.  But Alveron and Meluan are powerful and cruel and practical.  Good catch.

  • The Kaepcaen family is an offshoot of the Locklesses.

    In the audibook, it sounds like kepsen with a long vowel in the second syllable, like æ.

  • Kvothe learned woodcraft and wilderness survival from a huntsman named Laclith who traveled with his troupe for nearly a whole season.

    This was pointed out early on.  Theories include the troupe picking Laclith up in Three Crossings, Laclith being some manner of spy, and subtle coincidence.  Kvothe breaks into the story to tell Devon (and the reader) that it’s easy to see that Lanre/Haliax is the leader of the folks who killed his parents because of how he’s organized the story, but that he’s relating his experience.  I imagine all the Lockless information operates the same way.

  • Before working with Kvothe; Marten, Dedan, and Hespe scouted the lands around Tinuë for the Maer.

    Another good catch.  It may have something to do with his plans with Meluan.  Before the Bloodless Rebellion, Lackless controlled Tinuë.  As evidence mounts for Alveron being the Penitent King, it seems more plausible.

  • Maybe Fain is supposed to represent the Faen realm and/or the play tells a story that really happened?

    Someone asked Pat on his blog if he had Daeonica scripted out, outlined, or just the idea of it.  He said there was a kind of outline.  It may be the same regarding For All His Waiting.  We may have everything we’ll ever see about it.

  • Do we know for sure that Ergen wasn’t a nation of Shapers rather than Knowers?

    It’s clear from most of the stories that the Old-Knowers and the Shapers are factions within the same society.  The Shapers, increasingly bold, increasingly other, created Faen and were eventually exiles there.  Given Felurian’s version, where the moon shown over Ergen unchanging before being pulled into Faen, the evidence suggests Ergen was the Empire of the Old Knowers.

  • Eyes…

    Selitos and Dagon both lose an eye.  Felurian and Bast have mood ring eyes as well.  Cinder’s eyes are the black of water at the bottom of a well or a goat, depending on whom you ask.  Felurian implies the eyes of thosebitten by the Cthaeh change in some way.

  • The rings Bast has in his room in WMFc151 are all rings that Bredon describes the commoners as using in WMFc65.

    This is cited as part of the evidence that Newarre in somewhere in Vintas.

  • If there was a regent, that means King Roderic wasn’t ruling.

    There were (are?) multiple Prince Regents who, according to Sim, stand behind the royal family in the peerage.  Gaston addressed this in thread V, I think.  Search seems to be disabled, but iirc he believed that each Regent administered one of the farells: northern, southern, western, and eastern.  Alatis’s death had the southern farell in an uproar.  A slim possibility exists that Baron Jakis could be appointed regent.

  • Krin’s last name is Walker. So is Jacob’s (one of Kote’s regulars). Could they be related?

    In the blogs about the perils of translation, Pat mentions that the townsfolk of Newarre are meant to evoke common rustic or rural names to an English speaker.  They are different in languages where Shep, for example, is odd enough to jar the reader.

  • Kvothe’s parents saw a loden-stone in Peleresin. Resin is the rune for rock.
    [indent=1]Clever wordplay?



#196 jumbles

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 07:02 PM

View Postthistlepong, on 18 July 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

1.  Could the Lackless box be made of wood from the Cthaeh’s tree (or a similar one)?

The Loeclos box is made from rhinna wood. Searching seems to be disabled at the moment, but I posted the relevant quotes in an earlier thread.


So far I've found posts that allude to the one you made, but I haven't found it yet. So far I've only been able to determine that it's before page 8 of thread IV. That's frustrating.

View Postthistlepong, on 18 July 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

2.  Kvothe said that the Lackless box "wanted to be opened," while Jax’s box was "meant for keeping things inside."

Jax’s box ≠ Loeclos box.  “The Boy Who Loved the Moon” is the allegorical retelling of the incident that sparked the Creation War.  Felurian confirms that the moon was pulled into Faen and must return because they have a piece of her name.  If the Loeclos contained that piece, in the Four Corners, the moon wouldn’t need to move.


I wasn't explicit enough with why I put this. I totally agree that the boxes are different. I've seen others suggest they are the same and I was supplying evidence to the contrary.

View Postthistlepong, on 18 July 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

5.  Kvothe learned woodcraft and wilderness survival from a huntsman named Laclith who traveled with his troupe for nearly a whole season.

This was pointed out early on.  Theories include the troupe picking Laclith up in Three Crossings, Laclith being some manner of spy, and subtle coincidence.  Kvothe breaks into the story to tell Devon (and the reader) that it’s easy to see that Lanre/Haliax is the leader of the folks who killed his parents because of how he’s organized the story, but that he’s relating his experience.  I imagine all the Lockless information operates the same way.


I believe you that this has been brought up before, but I can't seem to find it.

View Postthistlepong, on 18 July 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

9.  Eyes…

Selitos and Dagon both lose an eye.  Felurian and Bast have mood ring eyes as well.  Cinder’s eyes are the black of water at the bottom of a well or a goat, depending on whom you ask.  Felurian implies the eyes of thosebitten by the Cthaeh change in some way.


Cammar also lost an eye.

View Postthistlepong, on 18 July 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

10.  The rings Bast has in his room in WMFc151 are all rings that Bredon describes the commoners as using in WMFc65.

This is cited as part of the evidence that Newarre in somewhere in Vintas.


Once again I believe you but can't find the post. Though I wasn't even thinking of it in terms of proof that Newarre is in Vintas. I was wondering if it was a Fae practice that the Vints picked up (and possibly altered). I also wondered who would give them to Bast, but I suppose he could be keeping them to give to other people.

View Postthistlepong, on 18 July 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

11.  If there was a regent, that means King Roderic wasn’t ruling.

There were (are?) multiple Prince Regents who, according to Sim, stand behind the royal family in the peerage.  Gaston addressed this in thread V, I think.  Search seems to be disabled, but iirc he believed that each Regent administered one of the farells: northern, southern, western, and eastern.  Alatis’s death had the southern farell in an uproar.  A slim possibility exists that Baron Jakis could be appointed regent.


Thanks for pointing this out. I totally missed the mention of multiple prince regents. I guess that means Alaitis probably wasn't ruling Vintas in Roderic's stead.

#197 thistlepong

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 05:13 PM

View Postjumbles, on 18 July 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

So far I've found posts that allude to the one you made, but I haven't found it yet. So far I've only been able to determine that it's before page 8 of thread IV. That's frustrating.

III:207, linked only to support your question.  It's always a good catch, and it's not always easy to remember thousands of meandering posts :)

View Postjumbles, on 18 July 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

I believe you that this has been brought up before, but I can't seem to find it.

III:137 is the earliest one that comes up in my search.  The theories may or may not originate here.  A number of forum discussions were active in March and April.


View Postjumbles, on 18 July 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

Once again I believe you but can't find the post. Though I wasn't even thinking of it in terms of proof that Newarre is in Vintas. I was wondering if it was a Fae practice that the Vints picked up (and possibly altered). I also wondered who would give them to Bast, but I suppose he could be keeping them to give to other people.

In terms of your proposition, the post or posts may not be relevant.  I'm sort of dumbfounded by what should have been obvious.  While bast certainly could have accumulated plenty of love (grass) tokens in the couple years he's been at Kvothe's side, the rings of bone (debt) and horn (enmity) would be kind of a feat to collect in a short time.  They may indeed be an old Faen tradition.  Nice thought.

It also sheds some odd light on the iron rings of the Vintish courts which would expose anyone of Faen origin.  Thanks.


View Postjumbles, on 18 July 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

Thanks for pointing this out. I totally missed the mention of multiple prince regents. I guess that means Alaitis probably wasn't ruling Vintas in Roderic's stead.

Roderic Calanthis is definitely the active ruler of Vintas as of the end of WMF.  We know the royal family consists of King Roderic, his wife, and probably an heir since family implies such.  I think the current assumption is that Princess Ariel is his daughter.  The presence of regents suggests folk able to rule in her stead due to minority or absence.

Regarding your question about Ergen, Felurian's testimony placing Murella under the moon before the existence of Faen does not absolutely preclude Murella being under shaper control during the events of "Lanre Turned."

Edited by thistlepong, 19 July 2011 - 06:58 PM.


#198 jumbles

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 09:06 PM

Thanks for providing those links Thistlepong! I discovered that those pages weren't appearing in my search results because I've been including "kingkiller" as a key word in all my searches to narrow the results to what is pertinent (I use google to search the entire site) and those pages were lacking that word.

#199 jumbles

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 10:54 AM

Here are some more thoughts I had:

1.  Anyone else notice that the poems Sim made for Fela that got her to finally notice him were full of seven-word lines? They can be found in WMFc28 and WMFc33.

2.  How does Kvothe create the wave that knocks Denna over in WMFc148? I didn’t think he had a power source strong enough to do it with sympathy. Was it naming? If so, why didn’t he tell Elodin about it when he told him he called the wind again?

3.  In NotWc88, Kvothe says, "Underneath the University, I found what I had wanted most, yet it was not what I expected. As is often the case when you gain your heart’s desire." Could he be talking about what he tricked a demon to get and fought an angel to keep?

4.  In WMFc9, Fall of Empire is attributed to Feltemi Reis. In WMFc39, The Fall of Empire is attributed to Greggor the Lesser. Either Fall of Empire and The Fall of Empire are two different books, this is an editing mistake, or the book fell victim to people changing what the history books say. I think it’s probably an editing mistake.

5.  Twice in NotW, Denna references Kvothe's first seven words to her, but both times she misquotes them. Kvothe said, "I was wondering what you're doing here." She quotes him as saying, "I was just wondering why you're here." I'm guessing this is an editing mistake.

6.  It seems like everyone considers Skarpi's story to be 100% true. But after the first day of the story, Skarpi tells Kvothe that you "have to be a bit of a liar to tell a story the right way. Too much truth confuses the facts. Too much honesty makes you sound insincere." Also, when Chronicler mentions Skarpi, Kvothe calls him a rumormonger. To me this suggests that something happens in the third book to lower Kvothe's opinion of Skarpi and/or his stories.

7.  In Kvothe's story about Sceop, Terris' name may come from terra for earth and Silla's name may come from an Inuit deity of the sky, wind, and weather.

8.  Taborlin's name may be related to the Tabor Light.

9.  "Tehlu's tits and teeth" is an expression used in WMF. All the other religious expressions have an understandable origin, but I don’t know where this one comes from.

10.  Except for a white shift in chapter 148, blue is the only color Denna is mentioned as wearing once she finishes her Lanre song. Maybe blue (or blue and white) are important to her patron.

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Edited to add the following
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The following is mostly speculation. At most there is little evidence to support any of this. I don't believe everything that follows. As such, I will not try hard (if at all) to defend these ideas.

11.  I think Wil and Sim are both dead. It doesn't seem right that they'd be alive. Also, in WMFc36, Kvothe goes out drinking with them and says that because he wasn't drinking sounten and actually got drunk, much of the evening is lost to living memory. The most simple and probable explanation for it being lost to living memory is that they were all drunk (which they were). But he really can’t be sure that it's lost to living memory unless they're dead.

12.  I know many people are fixated with Auri and being like the moon or saying she is the moon. But instead, she may be like the nightjars from the story of Jax. Nightjars are closely related to owls. Bredon is often said to resemble an owl. Maybe Auri is related to Bredon. Maybe she is his daughter. Maybe he is Amyr (someone earlier guessed that he could be the stick by the Maer that leads Kvothe to their door). Maybe that's how she knows about them. Also, in NotWc87 she talks about how owls are careful, patient, and not bold. While Bredon says the point of tak is to be bold, and I get the feeling that's also an ideal he lives by.

13.  Many people think Auri is Princess Ariel. Maybe instead she is Tabetha, the girl who claimed that Ambrose promised to marry her and then disappeared. Maybe Ambrose hired someone to attack her, which caused her mind to crack. In WMFc24 she instantly understood that Kvothe wanted to avoid dowsing and knew how to do it, like she was experienced at it and still did it. Perhaps she's still hiding from Ambrose's thug.

14.  During Kvothe's first admissions exam Lorren said he was going to go to Tarbean. This would have been just about the earliest word could have reached him that Skarpi was arrested for heresy. Maybe Lorren was Skarpi's friend in the church who could get him out. The church is powerful and it makes sense that they'd want someone in a position to censor information at the University's Archives.

15.  Lorren doesn't show emotion. Maybe he is from Ademre.

16.  The Cthaeh said that Denna's patron beat her with a walking stick for the first time recently. If Cinder is her patron, he might have had a walking stick on hand because he actually needed one after Marten shot him in the leg. The wording is such that just having the walking stick could have been new.

17.  Iax spoke to the Cthaeh before stealing the moon. It seems that the moon was stolen not long after the Faen realm was created. It seems likely to me that the Cthaeh existed before the Faen realm did (Felurian did). If that's true then even though it may be stuck in its tree now, that wouldn't always have been the case.

18.  Bast says that the Cthaeh perfectly sees every future. But how can anybody other than the Cthaeh know if this is true? If it was true, couldn't the Cthaeh have manipulated events so nobody knew it was evil? Bast also says that the Cthaeh is malicious. But if it had to choose between causing evil to the world or evil to the one who visited it, which would it choose? Could things turn out bad for the world but good for Kvothe (or the other way around)? Also, how can anyone other than the Cthaeh truly know what its intentions are? We can observe what happens after talking to the Cthaeh, but we cannot observe what didn't happen. Perhaps its agenda isn't to cause pain, but it doesn't care who gets hurt. Or perhaps its agenda is the greater good, but much evil must be done first (though I would be INCREDIBLY surprised if it turned out to be Amyr).

19.  Maybe Geoffrey and Denna are brother and sister. Their relationship is clearly different from the ones Denna has with other men. Also, they both have wide, dark eyes and dark hair.

20.  Kvothe's ring without name could be for the moon since its name was locked away.

21.  Kvothe's ring of ice with a flaw within could actually be a ring of glass with an air bubble inside it. I don’t really have a reason for thinking this except that the Kvothe stories are often full of errors. I can see ice being important if he ends up fighting Cinder. But glass (especially mirror-glass) also seems important.

22.  Taborlin was an enemy of the Chandrian and was also really powerful. But it doesn't seem like he succeeded in killing any of them (unless he took the place of one that he killed).

23.  Maybe the items from the Lackless rhymes were split up among the various Lockless families.

24.  Sceop had white hair and a walking stick, just like Denna's patron. Maybe he is her patron. I doubt this though, unless Kvothe never found out who her patron was, because I think Sceop = Skarpi and I would think Kvothe's reaction to Chronicler mentioning Skarpi would be more negative if he were Denna's patron.

25.  I want Crazy Martin (from Newarre) to turn out to be someone important from Kvothe's past. His name is similar to Marten's (who sort of lost it when Kvothe started killing bandits).

26.  For the people that think Denna is a Chandrian. In WMFc140, Kvothe says that a city feels different with Denna inside it. Maybe that's her sign manifesting itself.

27.  The Chandrian have signs. Maybe Angels and/or Amyr also have signs. If they do it seems very possible that they'd be mistaken for Chandrian signs since they show up in places the Chandrian have just been.

28.  Stercus is in thrall of iron. As has already been said, Ferule's name is like a combination of the runes for iron and binding. Maybe Stercus is Ferule's thrall.

Edited by jumbles, 25 July 2011 - 01:04 PM.


#200 GM Pierce

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 10:41 PM

A minor item regarding Denna that I have not seen here previously: Chapter 70, Clinging,  In the Maer's garden pp470 - What it means, I have no clear idea, but it should mean something.

She looked up at the sky and drew a long, deep breath. "I've always liked moonless nights best. It's easier to say things in the dark, It's easier to be yourself."