401 replies to this topic

[Nisheeth]

@SkyPirateJack:
Ah! Great find about that.

Quote

Now, I'm convinced that there's probably a code hidden in Denna's letter

Want a list of all the anagram's made by the Not-Supposed-to-be-Capitalized letters?
I have that as a word here, but I haven't bothered to look through the thousands of pages.
And can we add an attachment in a post?

[SkyPirateJack]

Nisheeth, on 27 January 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Want a list of all the anagram's made by the Not-Supposed-to-be-Capitalized letters?
I have that as a word here, but I haven't bothered to look through the thousands of pages.
And can we add an attachment in a post?

I'm thinking steganography, some sort of brutal cipher he's probrably already mentioned casually. The wording gets really strange in some places, like there is some serious code going on. Or she could just be getting drunk halway through writing it. I really think the whole letter is a designed to draw attention away from the address. Eventually it will come to light that something important was in the city of Belen. The university is in Belenay-Barren. But this is all old speculation.

Is Lanre from Belen? All I think when I hear Belen is Beren and Luthien.

[jumbles]

SkyPirateJack, on 27 January 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

The flits that Kvothe uses to test the poison are also known as sipquicks, but it's what Stapes calls them that set my mind turning. Calanthis. Calanthis is the royal family of Vint. I think Kvothe killed the actual King of Vint and the Penitent King is Alveron.

Maybe Kvothe poisons him.

SkyPirateJack, on 27 January 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

On a related note, how many things has Auri given Kvothe? Could they be the keys to the very unconventionally shaped locks on the four-plate door? I know the key, coin and candle (another potential reason for no candles in the Archives), but I'm at a loss for a fourth key. The only thing that comes to mind is that the door has no handle, and after a barmaid, two ninjas, and a tenth of the University's best and brightest; kvothe might actually try his candle...

She gave Kvothe:
1. a key to the moon (NotWc53)
2. a silver Aturan penance piece to keep him safe (NotWc67)
3. a wooden ring that keeps secrets (NotWc86)
4. an apple that thinks it's a pear (WMFc4)
5. a bun that thinks it's a cat (WMFc4)
6. a lettuce that thinks it's a lettuce (WMFc4)
7. a lavender smelling candle filled with happy dreams (WMFc11)
8. a kiss on his forehead (WMFc11)
9. an invitation to live with her in bad times (WMFc11)

SkyPirateJack, on 27 January 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

I really think the whole letter is a designed to draw attention away from the address. Eventually it will come to light that something important was in the city of Belen. The university is in Belenay-Barren.
Is Lanre from Belen?

Belen was one of the cities of Ergen. Lanre and Lyra saved it from a surprise attack. Geisa (one of Tehlu's angels) "had a hundred suitors in Belen before the walls fell." Terris' Edema Ruh (from Kvothe's story about Sceop) were going to Belenay.

[lanceschaubert]

SkyPirateJack, on 27 January 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

The flits that Kvothe uses to test the poison are also known as sipquicks, but it's what Stapes calls them that set my mind turning. Calanthis. Calanthis is the royal family of Vint. I think Kvothe killed the actual King of Vint and the Penitent King is Alveron. Someone else mentioned further back that the color of the soldiers' uniforms in the present matches those of the Maer.

On my first read of NotW I thought the hints and foreshadowing were obvious. By WMF, I realized I hadn't found half as many things as there really were. Now, I'm convinced that there's probably a code hidden in Denna's letter that says "I'm Patrick Rothfuss and I'm smarter than you. Also, the Game." I'm really starting to take anything into consideration. I feel like Rothfuss has laid out every key to every door we know of.

On a related note, how many things has Auri given Kvothe? Could they be the keys to the very unconventionally shaped locks on the four-plate door? I know the key, coin and candle (another potential reason for no candles in the Archives), but I'm at a loss for a fourth key. The only thing that comes to mind is that the door has no handle, and after a barmaid, two ninjas, and a tenth of the University's best and brightest; kvothe might actually try his candle...

The Calanthis thing is very very interesting.

I just realized (though you guys have probably mentioned this in my absence) that book 1 starts in the middle of a story: "When he awoke, Taborlin the Great found himself locked in a high tower. They had taken his sword and stripped him of his tools: key, coin, and candle were all gone. But that weren't even the worst of it, you see... cause the lamps on the wall were all burning blue!"

So yeah, i like the idea that those three are tools at least, if not the outright keys.

Nisheeth, on 27 January 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

@SkyPirateJack:
Ah! Great find about that.

Want a list of all the anagram's made by the Not-Supposed-to-be-Capitalized letters?
I have that as a word here, but I haven't bothered to look through the thousands of pages.
And can we add an attachment in a post?

Yes, I most certainly do.

[Nisheeth]

Quote

Yes, I most certainly do.

So how to give it?
I can't find attachments option here...

[Tears of Lys]

Nisheeth, on 30 January 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

So how to give it?
I can't find attachments option here...

You can post a link to stuff you've downloaded to a hosting site, but you can't do an attachment, as far as I know.

[lanceschaubert]

Nisheeth, on 30 January 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

So how to give it?
I can't find attachments option here...

Tears of Lys, on 31 January 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

You can post a link to stuff you've downloaded to a hosting site, but you can't do an attachment, as far as I know.

Nisheeth, on 30 January 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

So how to give it?
I can't find attachments option here...

Or you could copy-paste it to the Kingkiller compendium we use:

( https://docs.google....uthkey=CLqjs-YE if it breaks)

- LtmS

Edited by lanceschaubert, 01 February 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[thistlepong]

lanceschaubert, on 26 January 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

My Alchemy read through isn't the place for this, so I'll post it here:

One of my friends in noting Rothfuss' aversion to the government and religious systems noted the connection between the Knight's Templar and the Amyr.

His theory?

The Chandrian are the good guys, the Amyr the bad. That would mean the Chandrian got there to chase away the Amyr, who killed Kvothe's parents.

Thoughts?

I think this was addressed a couple times in earlier threads and on tordotcom. It's definitely a minority opinion that gets bogged down by the good guys/bad guys dichotomy. It's more likely that Kvothe's in way over his head on every count. The Amyr and the Seven are playing out an old drama for forgotten factions, each right for wrong/other/alien reasons.

The other Amyr, the ones associated with the Aturan Empire, are intentionally Templars; and probably deployed to aggressively evoke the trope. There's too much overt justification for their abuses in the text to allow bad to encompass them, though. Kvothe thinks they're right. Sim thinks they (and Kvothe) are necessary. In the end, even if they did kill his parents, I get the feeling Kvothe might understand why.

I go back and forth. I was sure before Kvothe got the the University that the Chandrian were innocent of the murders. But Cinder did get that blood on his sword from somewhere. And supposedly the Cthaeh doesn't lie.

[Nisheeth]

Sorry for the late reply...
So here's the link to the word file:
http://www.mediafire...yx7y2422rbxqpsk

Quote

Or you could copy-paste it to the Kingkiller compendium we use:

( https://docs.google....uthkey=CLqjs-YE if it breaks)

Actually I can't. The file is 58 MB in size, and i never got to the number of pages....
Best of luck with the 4,989,600 words.

Edited by Nisheeth, 01 February 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[Tears of Lys]

SkyPirateJack, on 27 January 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm thinking steganography, some sort of brutal cipher he's probrably already mentioned casually. The wording gets really strange in some places, like there is some serious code going on. Or she could just be getting drunk halway through writing it. I really think the whole letter is a designed to draw attention away from the address. Eventually it will come to light that something important was in the city of Belen. The university is in Belenay-Barren. But this is all old speculation.

Is Lanre from Belen? All I think when I hear Belen is Beren and Luthien.

I'm a stenographer (court reporter) who uses machine shorthand, which consists of rapidly (250 wpm) writing words with different combinations of letters. If anyone has a listing of the randomly capitalized letters, I could take a look at it and see if I can translate it into something.

I actually should be working on a transcript right now, but it's a deathly boring one so I'm arsing about.


ETA: Oh! Never mind Just noticed that there's a file link already posted. I'll mosey on over and see what I can find.

Edited by Tears of Lys, 01 February 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[lanceschaubert]

thistlepong, on 01 February 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

I think this was addressed a couple times in earlier threads and on tordotcom. It's definitely a minority opinion that gets bogged down by the good guys/bad guys dichotomy. It's more likely that Kvothe's in way over his head on every count. The Amyr and the Seven are playing out an old drama for forgotten factions, each right for wrong/other/alien reasons.

The other Amyr, the ones associated with the Aturan Empire, are intentionally Templars; and probably deployed to aggressively evoke the trope. There's too much overt justification for their abuses in the text to allow bad to encompass them, though. Kvothe thinks they're right. Sim thinks they (and Kvothe) are necessary. In the end, even if they did kill his parents, I get the feeling Kvothe might understand why.

I go back and forth. I was sure before Kvothe got the the University that the Chandrian were innocent of the murders. But Cinder did get that blood on his sword from somewhere. And supposedly the Cthaeh doesn't lie.

Thanks for the clear-up, Thistle. You're probably right there, and those are better thought out versions of my objections. Good word.

Nisheeth, on 01 February 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

Sorry for the late reply...
So here's the link to the word file:
http://www.mediafire...yx7y2422rbxqpsk



Actually I can't. The file is 58 MB in size, and i never got to the number of pages....
Best of luck with the 4,989,600 words.

Tanks.

Tears of Lys, on 01 February 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

I'm a stenographer (court reporter) who uses machine shorthand, which consists of rapidly (250 wpm) writing words with different combinations of letters. If anyone has a listing of the randomly capitalized letters, I could take a look at it and see if I can translate it into something.

I actually should be working on a transcript right now, but it's a deathly boring one so I'm arsing about.


ETA: Oh! Never mind Just noticed that there's a file link already posted. I'll mosey on over and see what I can find.

I'm fascinated to see what this turns up.

BTW, here's my new Chandrian Blue Flame post.

peace.

[Ockain]

Obviously I'm nit picking here, but maybe the Cthaeh is not as omniscient as everyone thinks. This could just be a play on words but in WMF p747 it says to Kvothe "You're Felurian's new manling aren't you?" then goes on to say "I thought as much, I can smell the iron on you"

Now being omniscient wouldn't it know beyond any doubt Kvothe was standing before him?

[DayLung]

I've really enjoyed the threads so far, and of course the books. I've had one thought that hasn't seemed to get much attention yet, though it has been mentioned. That is that Bast has seen Denna. At first I thought this was some throw away line to let us know that Kvothe is embellishing in his story (and to point of the trope that "all women the hero meets are beautiful"). But it has stuck in my mind as something more than that. Where and when did they meet? I always assumed Bast and Kvothe met after he became Kote, or at least after Kvothe had finished the deeds he's famous for (doesn't seem like a good idea to hide out with someone who helped you become infamous). So if that's true, either Kvothe and Denna saw each other after everything went down and Kvothe either pointed her out or introduced them, or Bast and Denna met independently of Kvothe, yet Bast still knew who she was. Of course we're given so little info about this nearly anything could be possible, (Denna is related to Bast, possibly brother sister with Manet being their Father, which make Manet = Remmen = Elodin! ). Either way it's a nagging question in my mind.


I had a thought about the Ctheah too. While it could be omniscient, it might not always want to think that hard, which is why it asked if Kvothe was Felurian's new manling, like I know how to do calculus, but if someone would just tell me the answer, that would be easier.

[Sylvester]

DayLung, on 03 February 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I had a thought about the Ctheah too. While it could be omniscient, it might not always want to think that hard, which is why it asked if Kvothe was Felurian's new manling, like I know how to do calculus, but if someone would just tell me the answer, that would be easier.

Another possibility I think would be that since the Chtaeh is supposed to say the things that would bring the most destruction and havoc, maybe he's taking his time to calculate the multiple possiblities (a bit like a computer playing chess) and choose the one with the worst outcome.

About your Manet theory, I love all of those, and I hope PR reads these threads and gets some ideas^^, but this one is sadly impossible, since Remmen is Fae and Manet works with iron all the time, this being the main reason why this can't happen, of course^^.

[DayLung]

Sylvester, on 03 February 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

Another possibility I think would be that since the Chtaeh is supposed to say the things that would bring the most destruction and havoc, maybe he's taking his time to calculate the multiple possiblities (a bit like a computer playing chess) and choose the one with the worst outcome.

About your Manet theory, I love all of those, and I hope PR reads these threads and gets some ideas^^, but this one is sadly impossible, since Remmen is Fae and Manet works with iron all the time, this being the main reason why this can't happen, of course^^.

I thought of the Chteath as a chess playing computer, too, which reminds me of a very relevant short story by GRRM called Unsound Variations, about chess and alternate timelines, spoilered because it's a diffrernet story.

Spoiler

It's about a group of chess players, and one builds a time machine and keeps going back to do things which ruin the lives of his friends (they weren't very nice to him). So he actually travels back through the alternative timelines to create one in which bad things happen to the people he doesn't like. So he is like the Ctheah, except he has to live through the timelines to see what will happen, but he can directly intervene.

[Tuco]

So a new idea hit me after a re-read of WMF. When Kvothe returns from his time with Felurian and meets up with his party at the inn, Dedan (I thnik) mentions that they followed his trail and found his sword "by the pool", and when Kvothe was with Felurian they stayed near a pool. So I think that it is the same pool and that the Fae is right on top of the mortal world. Which leads me to the Tree that the cathea lives in is the same tree that the adem worship, and that they are the protectors of the tree in the mortal world just like there are guards (can't remember their name) protecting the Tree in the Fea. The protectors in the Fae were said to use bow and arrow, and would shoot someone from a great distance, and kill any birds that ate at the corpse, and the story of the founder of the adem school was an exceptional archer, and at the original school bow and arrow was the main weapon. So the Adem were originally the protectors of the tree in the mortal world, but it's been so long they've forgotten their true purpose, but having built their culture and school around the tree serves the same basic function. Also if you look at the Lethani vs the Cathae, the cathae see all possible 'paths' where as the adem are constantly being taught to follow the one true path, a counter to the cathae.

In the same vein I also think that Iax (Jax) is locked away behind the stone door in the Archanum, and that the school cropped up in the mortal world around the Fae prison where Iax is held. The masters protect the stone door in the mortal world, just like the adem protect the tree.

what do you guys think (other than my poor, rushed grammar)?

edit: also regarding the Tree, it has the same imagery of the falling butterfly wings in the Fae and the spinning leaves in the mortal world, at least in my mind.

Edited by Tuco, 07 February 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[jumbles]

@Tuco

I like it! I thought you were going to say the tree Kvothe called the lightning on was the Cthaeh's, but the sword tree makes a lot more sense.

[Tuco]

jumbles, on 07 February 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

@Tuco

I like it! I thought you were going to say the tree Kvothe called the lightning on was the Cthaeh's, but the sword tree makes a lot more sense.

Yeah, having this random, completely unique tree in the middle of ademre just kind of stood out. it's not like the place in filled with sword trees, so i has to be significant.

[DayLung]

@Tuco

There is also the duality (if you want to call it that) of the flowers around the Cthaeh that heal vs. the leaves of the Sword tree which cut.

[Red Wedding]

Tuco, that is awesome!

I mentioned a few things about the Adem on page 17 and your idea just fits in perfectly. The people protecting the Ctaeh are called Sithe, the founder of the Adem school is named Aethe and he used the same horn bow as the Sithe do. Also, the Adem people tell Kvothe that their sky has changed and the flower of the Ctaeh is called Rhinna, similar to the Adem word for Chandrian, Rhinta. So it looks like Ademre is connected to the Fae realm in some way and your idea with the tree and the Sithe and the Adem sounds so awesome!