401 replies to this topic

[Sylvester]

jumbles, on 18 June 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

I wasn't suggesting that was support because the Chandrian are animals, but because this particular Chandrian makes dogs go mad.

I didn't make myself fully clear, sorry. What I meant to say, if you're trying to prove that a Chandrian makes animals go mad by supporting it with this quote: "He[Dagon]'s my mad dog on a leash", then Dagon is driven mad by this Chandrian, which only makes sense if he's an animal... Anyway, basically, what I'm trying to say is that I don't find this quote any conclusive for Dagon to be that particular chandrian...It's a little "grasping at straws", if you see what I mean. Of course, it may be a clever hint from PR and you might have discovered it, but I guess we'll have to wait for the third book to come out to check

Two_by_two, I really like the idea dreaming/naming!

And that can actually make some sense(or make it even more mysterious, that remains to be seen) to the Lackless door poem:

"That which comes with sleeping" would be naming? Seems kinda weird but it does make sense in a very far-streched way. So, the Lackless door is a way to learn "the names of all things, like Taborlin"? Personally, I would find that really cool, but also a little childish perhaps... But didn't Kvothe say something about meeting his "own hermit in the woods"? Anyone finds a quote? I thought he spoke about Elodin but it could be someone/something else entirely

[Merihathor]

two_by_two, on 18 June 2011 - 01:11 PM, said:

I would like to propose that naming is closely linked to dreaming.

I said much the same thing, although I termed it the sleeping mind :-)

[Werthead]

Pornokitsch have a pretty harsh, but I can't say entirely unfair, review of The Wise Man's Fear here.

[Sci-2]

Werthead, on 18 June 2011 - 02:13 PM, said:

Pornokitsch have a pretty harsh, but I can't say entirely unfair, review of The Wise Man's Fear here.

I kinda felt the part with Gidea was showing a major flaw in Kvothe, just as when he hunts down and kills the fake Ruh. That it is this thinking that will screw him in the end.

But honestly there are lots of people who feel the same about things like war with heavy civilian casualties, dropping the atomic bomb (twice), or even the suffering of masses under varied economic programs. I disagreed with Kvothe's position, but I didn't think it was so far left field in evil.

Edited by sciborg2, 18 June 2011 - 02:29 PM.

[Spaceman Hobbes]

Sylvester, on 18 June 2011 - 04:23 AM, said:

IF however the candle without light is referring to Haliax, it could mean that the business of the Lackless door is connected with the so-elusive Chandrian's purpose. Would it be opening the door? Preventing the door from being opened? Considering the last line of the rhyme, "then comes that wich comes with sleeping", which could mean dreaming/relaxation?, the first one seems more likely.

So that would explain how Arliden, mere Ruh trouper, could have divined the Seven's purpose: he heard this rhyme, perhaps some others, and put them together.

I find this to actually make sense. Any loopholes?

That which comes with sleeping could refer to the moon.

Arliden could have been killed just for discovering the names of the seven. They have been extremely thorough in killing those with knowledge of them. The Adem got lucky and found a loophole in the tracking system, and other than that no real concrete evidence exists.

[Kmmontandon]

A few quick things:

* Has anyone noticed there might be a connection between Elodin's single cinnas fruit shared with Auri and Kvothe, and the fact that in one part of Fae, a single cinnas fruit as a gift is considered an insult?

* I can't help but think the Chancellor's illness is arranged, but can't figure out why either Ambrose, Hemme, or other forces at work would do so.

* Kvothe's comment of "forgot who I was for a moment there" after being beaten by the mercenaries, to me implies that he realized during the fight that if he won - especially won handily - people would start asking questions about how a modest innkeeper could beat a couple of hardened ex-soldiers.

[GM Pierce]

Kmmontandon, on 18 June 2011 - 09:43 PM, said:

* I can't help but think the Chancellor's illness is arranged, but can't figure out why either Ambrose, Hemme, or other forces at work would do so.
* Kvothe's comment of "forgot who I was for a moment there" after being beaten by the mercenaries, to me implies that he realized during the fight that if he won - especially won handily - people would start asking questions about how a modest innkeeper could beat a couple of hardened ex-soldiers.

Two excellent catches. Hemme could arrange for the Chancellor to be poisoned either out of his usual nastiness, or because he was enraged at being told to shut up during Kvothe's exam. Ambrose would have the connections to obtain whatever was needed to cause the illness. By himself he probably wouldn't do this, but Hemme could take advantage of those connections.

After a bit I noticed something I had missed before: In that same interview, Arwyl asks Kvothe to come up with a diagnosis and Kvothe talks of "smelters flu" and heavy metal poisoning. Hemme has not yet insulted Kvothe and the Chancellor has not yet told Hemme to shut up.

This raises several interesting possibilities including Hemme learning about metal poisoning in that same interview.

"Forgot who I was" makes excellent sense.

Edited by GM Pierce, 19 June 2011 - 08:09 AM.

[Spaceman Hobbes]

Kmmontandon, on 18 June 2011 - 09:43 PM, said:

A few quick things:

* Has anyone noticed there might be a connection between Elodin's single cinnas fruit shared with Auri and Kvothe, and the fact that in one part of Fae, a single cinnas fruit as a gift is considered an insult?

* I can't help but think the Chancellor's illness is arranged, but can't figure out why either Ambrose, Hemme, or other forces at work would do so.

* Kvothe's comment of "forgot who I was for a moment there" after being beaten by the mercenaries, to me implies that he realized during the fight that if he won - especially won handily - people would start asking questions about how a modest innkeeper could beat a couple of hardened ex-soldiers.

Keep in mind that Elodin has never been within ten feet or Auri before, and as a result would have no idea she and Kvothe exchange gifts. I think a much more likely explanation is that he doesn't pack for a picnic when searching for half cracked students on the roof of mains.

I like your other two points though. Kvothe purposely losing the fight is something I never considered before.

[Grogsmash]

Werthead, on 18 June 2011 - 02:13 PM, said:

Pornokitsch have a pretty harsh, but I can't say entirely unfair, review of The Wise Man's Fear here.

Great review and while nastier than I would put it, definitely captures alot of my feelings towards the book. I just don't see how this series can come to any sort of satisfying conclusion after one more book.

[two_by_two]

Merihathor, on 18 June 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

I said much the same thing, although I termed it the sleeping mind :-)

Apologies, Merihathor. I always lose track of what has already been said.

[two_by_two]

I just remembered something else I noticed upon rereading WMF yesterday. In Elodin's class, they discuss things that cannot be explicitly defined, such as jokes, love, naming, and music (WMF Chapter 30: More Than Salt). Kvothe argues that music can be explicitly defined.

Quote

"Music explains itself," I said. "It is the road, and it is the map that shows the road. It is both together."

The astute among you may recognize this as almost exactly the way the Lethani is described. I cannot find the exact quote, but it is something along the lines of "It is the pass through the mountains, and it is knowing the path through the mountains." Something like that. If someone could find the quote, that would be helpful. Obviously the Lethani and naming are closely linked; we see parallels with Spinning Leaf and even how the Adem cannot tell exactly what the Lethani is, only give examples and gradually lead Kvothe towards understanding. In a way, this is also somewhat similar to how older Kvothe approaches Denna (NOTW Chapter 49: The Nature of Wild Things).

Quote

So. With slow care rather than stealth we must approach the subject of a certain woman. Her wildness is of such degree, I fear even approaching her too quickly even in a story. Should I move recklessly, I might startle even the idea of her into sudden flight.

[Gaston de Foix]

two_by_two, on 19 June 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

I just remembered something else I noticed upon rereading WMF yesterday. In Elodin's class, they discuss things that cannot be explicitly defined, such as jokes, love, naming, and music (WMF Chapter 30: More Than Salt). Kvothe argues that music can be explicitly defined.  The astute among you may recognize this as almost exactly the way the Lethani is described. I cannot find the exact quote, but it is something along the lines of "It is the pass through the mountains, and it is knowing the path through the mountains." Something like that. If someone could find the quote, that would be helpful. Obviously the Lethani and naming are closely linked; we see parallels with Spinning Leaf and even how the Adem cannot tell exactly what the Lethani is, only give examples and gradually lead Kvothe towards understanding. In a way, this is also somewhat similar to how older Kvothe approaches Denna (NOTW Chapter 49: The Nature of Wild Things).

I don't believe the Lethani and Naming are linked. Difficulties in understanding or explaining
concepts no more connects Lethani and Naming than jokes, love, and music and Naming.

[two_by_two]

Gaston de Foix, on 19 June 2011 - 02:58 PM, said:

I don't believe the Lethani and Naming are linked. Difficulties in understanding or explaining
concepts no more connects Lethani and Naming than jokes, love, and music and Naming.

That's true. However, Spinning Leaf, the mental exercise that helps Kvothe with the Lethani also helps him find the Name of the Wind. It is probably a way to tap into your sleeping mind, nothing more.

I also something interesting in WMF Chapter 111: A Liar and a Thief:

Quote

Shehyn hesitated slightly, then said, "How do you follow the Lethani?"

"How do you follow the moon?"

My time with Tempi had taught me to appreciate the different sorts of pauses that can punctuate a conversation. [...]

This pause was a sudden gape in the conversation. It was the empty space of an indrawn breath. I sensed I had said something very clever or something very stupid.

I suspect he said something very clever. We theorize that the Chandrian's purpose is linked to the moon. Kvothe here gives a totally out-of-the-blue answer... about the moon. I think this section might be important.

[Gaston de Foix]

two_by_two, on 19 June 2011 - 11:15 PM, said:

That's true. However, Spinning Leaf, the mental exercise that helps Kvothe with the Lethani also helps him find the Name of the Wind. It is probably a way to tap into your sleeping mind, nothing more.

I also something interesting in WMF Chapter 111: A Liar and a Thief:




I suspect he said something very clever. We theorize that the Chandrian's purpose is linked to the moon. Kvothe here gives a totally out-of-the-blue answer... about the moon. I think this section might be important.

I agree. Naming and knowledge of the Lethani can be accessed by spinning leaf or something similar. But really that's where the similarity ends.

I like your point about the moon and agree he said something very clever, although the reasons are fairly obscure.

When I have time, not likely in the next 30-45 days, I will develop my theory of my moon in full. The significance of the moon to Kvothe's story and to the history of the Four Corners is fundamental.

Edited by Gaston de Foix, 20 June 2011 - 04:42 AM.

[Galactus]

Werthead, on 18 June 2011 - 02:13 PM, said:

Pornokitsch have a pretty harsh, but I can't say entirely unfair, review of The Wise Man's Fear here.

The "Everyone loves Kvothe" thing made me giggle. It's so true. It's almost reminiscient of a harem manga, even with the different types of girls.

[Dot Seth]

ambrose is NOT the king kvothe kills, because he didn't exist at first.  ari, davi, and ambrose all got added in later on, as said by PR in one of his interviews i watched on youtube.  in the first version of the story, kvothe was buddy buddy with lauren because ambrose didn't exist to ruin his archive attempts.  if he didn't exist in the first version, he couldn't have been the king kvothe killed in the first version. its that simple. maybe PR decided to completely change the king that got killed, the how, and the why, but that seems like a complete rewrite rather than a touch up.  ambrose might still be the penitent king that assumes the throne afterwords of course.

secondly, why does it have to be a king?  we all know the stories get over blown.  it could be any minor dude in government and get carried away.  it could also be the top guy of something other than a government that common folk wouldn't understand.  like the chancellor of the university is essentially the king of the university.  speaking of which... its hemme right now, someone that hates kvothe with passion, and that he hates back just as much.

i would like to know if the skrael could be made with advanced sigilry?  do they HAVE to be weapons left over from the creation war?

[Sci-2]

Dot Seth, on 20 June 2011 - 05:59 PM, said:

secondly, why does it have to be a king?  we all know the stories get over blown.  it could be any minor dude in government and get carried away.  it could also be the top guy of something other than a government that common folk wouldn't understand.  like the chancellor of the university is essentially the king of the university.  speaking of which... its hemme right now, someone that hates kvothe with passion, and that he hates back just as much.

i would like to know if the skrael could be made with advanced sigilry?  do they HAVE to be weapons left over from the creation war?

I suspect some thing were exaggerations, but I suspect the name King Killer doesn't get attached to anyone who doesn't kill a king.

I see your point about the scrael - perhaps Kvothe makes the first one. Definitely a possibility I hadn't considered.

[Gaston de Foix]

sciborg2, on 20 June 2011 - 07:20 PM, said:

I suspect some thing were exaggerations, but I suspect the name King Killer doesn't get attached to anyone who doesn't kill a king.

I see your point about the scrael - perhaps Kvothe makes the first one. Definitely a possibility I hadn't considered.

re the scrael. Sygaldry relies on runes: we are given a fairly close look at the scrael, there are no runes. Also there is nothing to suggest sygaldry is capable of imparting life; only shaping can do that.

Edited by Gaston de Foix, 21 June 2011 - 02:04 AM.

[Kzad-bhat]

Random theory for fun:

The king, the maer and anyone else required to make this theory work die... probably from food poisoning...

Meluan is now the heir... she needs someone from the correct quadrant to marry to stabilize her power base.

Sim gets offered up as the sacrificial lamb (so he is destined to become the king)

Sim loves Fela.

Sim decides to fake his own death and run off with Fela.

Kvothe helps with the plan by "killing" him... gets the name "poet killer" and king killer, puts on an overly dramatic scene infront of the Eolian.

[ianfitz]

Read the first two books in a week after being recommended them from reading ASOIAF. Loved the books. Since I read fast and sometimes don't pick up on all minute details, I am listening to the book on audio now after finding a good version online.

Since I just started reading ASOIAF series in the past few months, I haven't had the experience many of you did waiting many years for the next book in the series but I feel like I now might have gotten myself into the same situation with the Kingkiller Chronicles. Can't wait to read the next book in the series whenever it comes out... I don't have any theories but love reading everyone else's.