401 replies to this topic

[two_by_two]

Kzad-bhat, on 21 June 2011 - 01:53 PM, said:

Random theory for fun:

The king, the maer and anyone else required to make this theory work die... probably from food poisoning...

Meluan is now the heir... she needs someone from the correct quadrant to marry to stabilize her power base.

Sim gets offered up as the sacrificial lamb (so he is destined to become the king)

Sim loves Fela.

Sim decides to fake his own death and run off with Fela.

Kvothe helps with the plan by "killing" him... gets the name "poet killer" and king killer, puts on an overly dramatic scene infront of the Eolian.

Clever theory. Complicated and convoluted, but the last thing anyone would expect... except us here at ASOIAF.

[NewsToTom]

First-time poster, joined a while back after discovering this forum.  It was great for highlighting some things I'd read over in my first read-through.  I have a hypothesis that I haven't seen brought up.  I'm not sure sure I find it fully convincing myself, but I'd be curious to hear what other people think.

I have a problem with both Denna and Auri, and how they know what they know.  Denna is comfortable mixing socially with the nobility.  Kvothe is as well (at least when he restrains some of his tendencies), but we know he was trained by his mother in how to behave properly.  Denna's background is unknown, but it's possible she had similar training.  Auri is also of unknown background.  We know she's relatively young, has been at the university for maybe a couple years (per Elodin), and knows things such as the Amyr and the need for Kvothe to prevent someone from using his blood that are not common knowledge.

There's a huge hint dropped early in WMF when Kvothe offers to tell the real story of Princess Ariel.  The meeting between Elodin, Kvothe, and Auri happens soon after that (in book chronology), and Elodin seems to think Auri was a good name for her.  Elodin's approval and the aural similarity strongly suggest Auri=Princess Ariel.  And they probably are, but that feels too obvious to me.

But if Denna were Princess Ariel and raised in a court, that would explain why she knows what she does.  Another question Denna=Princess Ariel could solve is the king Kvothe kills.  He could be the person responsible for her life on the road.

Who then would Auri be?  A student who's cracked, just as Kvothe speculates.  She could have been a scriv, responsible for pruning the Archives of books with Amyr-related information, have gone past the Valaritas door, or have her own route into the Archives.  She could be Slyhth, who's mentioned by Simmon (NOTW Ch.44, The Burning Glass, p.330 of my US MMPB) as a student who cracked.  That could just be a throw away name, but I've learned not to trust seeming throw away names.

I admit, it's rather thin evidence to go against the obvious Auri=Princess Ariel conclusion, but sometimes the obvious answer is too easy to go with.

Thoughts?

[Sci-2]

NewsToTom, on 21 June 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

I admit, it's rather thin evidence to go against the obvious Auri=Princess Ariel conclusion, but sometimes the obvious answer is too easy to go with.

Thoughts?

Right now I think Denna is a prostitute turned courtesan turned no-sex escort. Auri is possibly  Ariel, but do we know anything about Princess Ariel beyond the name?

I think Elodin takes note of Auri's name because it is either the Name for Sun or Auri's true name. It's the reason Kvothe gets into the naming class.

[two_by_two]

Interesting theory, NewsToTom. I don't know what to think of it just yet.

sciborg2, on 21 June 2011 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right now I think Denna is a prostitute turned courtesan turned no-sex escort. Auri is possibly  Ariel, but do we know anything about Princess Ariel beyond the name?

I think Elodin takes note of Auri's name because it is either the Name for Sun or Auri's true name. It's the reason Kvothe gets into the naming class.

I assumed it was the name for the Sun. If it were Auri's true name, wouldn't it affect her every time Kvothe used it? Either that or it was a large chunk of her true name. I don't know.

We know nothing about Princess Ariel, as far as I can remember. We can hypothesize that she is the same princess "rescued from sleeping barrow kings", but we don't know. However, for there to be a "truth about Princess Ariel", there has to be a lie about her first. What are the various possibilities for that lie?

[Lily Rivers]

two_by_two, on 22 June 2011 - 12:17 AM, said:

Interesting theory, NewsToTom. I don't know what to think of it just yet.



I assumed it was the name for the Sun. If it were Auri's true name, wouldn't it affect her every time Kvothe used it? Either that or it was a large chunk of her true name. I don't know.

We know nothing about Princess Ariel, as far as I can remember. We can hypothesize that she is the same princess "rescued from sleeping barrow kings", but we don't know. However, for there to be a "truth about Princess Ariel", there has to be a lie about her first. What are the various possibilities for that lie?

Maybe I missed this earlier in the thread, but isn't there a chance there is a sleeping king behind the 4-plate door?  Auri has access to many workarounds in the underthing.

[Gaston de Foix]

NewsToTom, on 21 June 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

First-time poster, joined a while back after discovering this forum.  It was great for highlighting some things I'd read over in my first read-through.  I have a hypothesis that I haven't seen brought up.  I'm not sure sure I find it fully convincing myself, but I'd be curious to hear what other people think.

I have a problem with both Denna and Auri, and how they know what they know.  Denna is comfortable mixing socially with the nobility.  Kvothe is as well (at least when he restrains some of his tendencies), but we know he was trained by his mother in how to behave properly.  Denna's background is unknown, but it's possible she had similar training.  Auri is also of unknown background.  We know she's relatively young, has been at the university for maybe a couple years (per Elodin), and knows things such as the Amyr and the need for Kvothe to prevent someone from using his blood that are not common knowledge.

There's a huge hint dropped early in WMF when Kvothe offers to tell the real story of Princess Ariel.  The meeting between Elodin, Kvothe, and Auri happens soon after that (in book chronology), and Elodin seems to think Auri was a good name for her.  Elodin's approval and the aural similarity strongly suggest Auri=Princess Ariel.  And they probably are, but that feels too obvious to me.

But if Denna were Princess Ariel and raised in a court, that would explain why she knows what she does.  Another question Denna=Princess Ariel could solve is the king Kvothe kills.  He could be the person responsible for her life on the road.

Who then would Auri be?  A student who's cracked, just as Kvothe speculates.  She could have been a scriv, responsible for pruning the Archives of books with Amyr-related information, have gone past the Valaritas door, or have her own route into the Archives.  She could be Slyhth, who's mentioned by Simmon (NOTW Ch.44, The Burning Glass, p.330 of my US MMPB) as a student who cracked.  That could just be a throw away name, but I've learned not to trust seeming throw away names.

I admit, it's rather thin evidence to go against the obvious Auri=Princess Ariel conclusion, but sometimes the obvious answer is too easy to go with.

Thoughts?

Newstotom, I've posted my own thoughts on the identity of Princess Ariel at pg.18 of Thread V.

I agree with you to the extent Auri is not Princess Ariel, otherwise, I disagree. Can I invite you to read my post and tell me if you disagree with my conclusion?

[Sci-2]

Lily Rivers, on 22 June 2011 - 12:45 AM, said:

Maybe I missed this earlier in the thread, but isn't there a chance there is a sleeping king behind the 4-plate door?  Auri has access to many workarounds in the underthing.

This makes me wonder how many of the doors are convergent. I feel like the Four Plate Door is its own thing, but possibly the Lackless Door and Doors of Stone are one and the same.

Gaston - you're right the scraels have no sigils on them. I suppose the biggest issue with them being created by magic known to the Arcanum is that arcanists would, in theory, be able to destroy them with magic.

I remember Bast mentions the creation of the Nameless and the Scaendyne, which might be the formal name of the scrael. <- Could Iax or Lanre have made them?

Edited by sciborg2, 22 June 2011 - 09:26 AM.

[Gaston de Foix]

sciborg2, on 22 June 2011 - 09:20 AM, said:

This makes me wonder how many of the doors are convergent. I feel like the Four Plate Door is its own thing, but possibly the Lackless Door and Doors of Stone are one and the same.

Gaston - you're right the scraels have no sigils on them. I suppose the biggest issue with them being created by magic known to the Arcanum is that arcanists would, in theory, be able to destroy them with magic.

I remember Bast mentions the creation of the Nameless and the Scaendyne, which might be the formal name of the scrael. <- Could Iax or Lanre have made them?

it's possible Iax or Lanre was responsible, although it's interesting it's mentioned separately when Bast is discussing the nature of the Ctaeth.

[Rugin]

Hello all.  Love the board and discussion.  Here's some thoughts I had and
wanted to share.

1. Kvothe as a shaper?
Assumption:  Shaping is merely understanding the name of something and altering the name, thus giving it a new one.

WMF, Hardback, Page 108
Elodin looked back and forth between the two of us, “Auri?”
I waited for him to finish his question, but that seemed to be all of it.
Auri understood before I did. “It’s my name,” she said, grinning proudly.
“Is it now?” Elodin said curiously.
Auri nodded.  “Kvothe gave it to me.” She beamed in my direction. “Isn’t it marvelous?”
Elodin nodded.  “It is a lovely name,” he said politely. ”And its suits you.”
“It does,” she agreed.  “It is like having a flower in my heart.”  
She gave Elodin a serious look.  “If your name is getting too heavy, you should
have Kvothe give you a new one.”
Elodin nodded again and took a bite of his cinnas.  As he chewed, he turned to look at me.  
By the light of the moon, I saw his eyes.  They were cool, thoughtful, and perfectly, utterly sane.

Remember, Elodin already knew that Kvothe had called the name of the wind.  The information
that he could see truly about someone and name them accurately, plus Auri’s implication that
he could give Elodin a new name is what changed his mind about inviting Kvothe to attend his class.

After Kvothe returns to the University he approaches Elodin.
WMF, Hardback, Page 977-978
“Master Elodin,” I asked slowly, “What would you think of someone who kept changing their own name?”
“What?” He sat up suddenly, his eyes wild and panicked.  “What have you done?”
His reaction startled me, and I held up my hands defensively. “Nothing!” I insisted.
“It’s not me. It’s a girl I know.”
Elodin’s face grew ashen. “Fela?” he said. “Oh no. No. She wouldn’t do something like that.
She’s too smart for that.” It sounded as if he were desperately trying to convince himself.
“I’m not talking about Fela,” I said. “I’m talking about a young girl I know. Every time I
turn around she’s picked another name for herself.”
“Oh,” Elodin said, relaxing.  He leaned back against the tree, laughing softly.  “Calling names,”
he said with a tangible relief. “God’s bones, boy, I thought . . .” He broke off, shaking his head.
“You thought what?” I asked.
“Nothing,” he said dismissively. “Now.  What’s this about a girl?”

This also implies that Kvothe could do something really stupid and cause his own namne to be changed,
which may be causing his current problems.

2. Meaning of rings on either hand
Perhaps the wearing of rings pertains to knowing the name of something, and being able to shape it.  
One hand knowing, one hand shaping.

3. Thoughts on the poem
One of them a ring unworn - The ring unworn might be that Kvothe’s parents were never married

One a word that is forsworn - The word forsworn could be Kvothe going against his pledge to Denna
in regards to finding out information about her patron.

One a thing tight-held in keeping - The thing tight-held in keeping could be the contents of
the lockless box.

4.  King Killer could be related to the fact that he rescued a princess from the barrow kings,
and killed one in the process.  That would be in line with the exageration around Kvothe's deeds.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for throwing the fight with the two guardsmen, I'm of the opinion that he truly lost.  It's the
manic laughter about forgetting who he really is that convinces me.

Although, I've felt he may be downplaying what we is capable of and that either Bast or the Chronicler
are not whom they seem.

[Gaston de Foix]

Rugin, on 22 June 2011 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hello all.  Love the board and discussion.  Here's some thoughts I had and
wanted to share.

1. Kvothe as a shaper?
Assumption:  Shaping is merely understanding the name of something and altering the name, thus giving it a new one.

WMF, Hardback, Page 108
Elodin looked back and forth between the two of us, “Auri?”
I waited for him to finish his question, but that seemed to be all of it.
Auri understood before I did. “It’s my name,” she said, grinning proudly.
“Is it now?” Elodin said curiously.
Auri nodded.  “Kvothe gave it to me.” She beamed in my direction. “Isn’t it marvelous?”
Elodin nodded.  “It is a lovely name,” he said politely. ”And its suits you.”
“It does,” she agreed.  “It is like having a flower in my heart.”  
She gave Elodin a serious look.  “If your name is getting too heavy, you should
have Kvothe give you a new one.”
Elodin nodded again and took a bite of his cinnas.  As he chewed, he turned to look at me.  
By the light of the moon, I saw his eyes.  They were cool, thoughtful, and perfectly, utterly sane.

Remember, Elodin already knew that Kvothe had called the name of the wind.  The information
that he could see truly about someone and name them accurately, plus Auri’s implication that
he could give Elodin a new name is what changed his mind about inviting Kvothe to attend his class.

After Kvothe returns to the University he approaches Elodin.
WMF, Hardback, Page 977-978
“Master Elodin,” I asked slowly, “What would you think of someone who kept changing their own name?”
“What?” He sat up suddenly, his eyes wild and panicked.  “What have you done?”
His reaction startled me, and I held up my hands defensively. “Nothing!” I insisted.
“It’s not me. It’s a girl I know.”
Elodin’s face grew ashen. “Fela?” he said. “Oh no. No. She wouldn’t do something like that.
She’s too smart for that.” It sounded as if he were desperately trying to convince himself.
“I’m not talking about Fela,” I said. “I’m talking about a young girl I know. Every time I
turn around she’s picked another name for herself.”
“Oh,” Elodin said, relaxing.  He leaned back against the tree, laughing softly.  “Calling names,”
he said with a tangible relief. “God’s bones, boy, I thought . . .” He broke off, shaking his head.
“You thought what?” I asked.
“Nothing,” he said dismissively. “Now.  What’s this about a girl?”

This also implies that Kvothe could do something really stupid and cause his own namne to be changed,
which may be causing his current problems.

2. Meaning of rings on either hand
Perhaps the wearing of rings pertains to knowing the name of something, and being able to shape it.  
One hand knowing, one hand shaping.

3. Thoughts on the poem
One of them a ring unworn - The ring unworn might be that Kvothe’s parents were never married

One a word that is forsworn - The word forsworn could be Kvothe going against his pledge to Denna
in regards to finding out information about her patron.

One a thing tight-held in keeping - The thing tight-held in keeping could be the contents of
the lockless box.

4.  King Killer could be related to the fact that he rescued a princess from the barrow kings,
and killed one in the process.  That would be in line with the exageration around Kvothe's deeds.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for throwing the fight with the two guardsmen, I'm of the opinion that he truly lost.  It's the
manic laughter about forgetting who he really is that convinces me.

Although, I've felt he may be downplaying what we is capable of and that either Bast or the Chronicler
are not whom they seem.

great first post and welcome, Rugin.

I agree with almost the entirety of your post. Here's where I disagree:

if simply giving something a new name amounts to shaping, then it's difficult to see how could shape stone or wind, the name of neither of which could be easily changed such as choosing a new name for a living creature. I think there is more to shaping than simply giving a new name.

[Merihathor]

Rugin, on 22 June 2011 - 10:40 AM, said:

2. Meaning of rings on either hand
Perhaps the wearing of rings pertains to knowing the name of something, and being able to shape it.
One hand knowing, one hand shaping.

3. Thoughts on the poem
One of them a ring unworn - The ring unworn might be that Kvothe’s parents were never married

One a word that is forsworn - The word forsworn could be Kvothe going against his pledge to Denna
in regards to finding out information about her patron.

4. King Killer could be related to the fact that he rescued a princess from the barrow kings,
and killed one in the process. That would be in line with the exageration around Kvothe's deeds.

I pulled out the new ideas from your post that I hadn't heard before, and to say--very interesting :-) Thanks for sharing!

[NewsToTom]

Gaston de Foix, on 22 June 2011 - 08:25 AM, said:

Newstotom, I've posted my own thoughts on the identity of Princess Ariel at pg.18 of Thread V.

I agree with you to the extent Auri is not Princess Ariel, otherwise, I disagree. Can I invite you to read my post and tell me if you disagree with my conclusion?

Thanks for the reply.  Reading your thoughts, I have a couple responses:
1) Stories of Kvothe are relatively well-known, even though the University isn't in Vintas.  Princess Ariel's story could be similarly well-known, whether because of her presumed association with Kvothe or otherwise, even if she isn't Vintish.

2) You're right that barrows seem to be largely a Vintish phenomenon, but we know they're not exclusively Vintish.  The one known barrow we've seen, in NOTW, was near Trebon.  In a metaphorical sense, Kvothe's rescue of Denna after the Mauthen fire could've been a rescue of a princess from a sleeping barrow king.  I'm not sure how much I believe this last part, but the existence of that barrow as an old imperial fort suggests there could be other barrows outside of Vintas.

[Gaston de Foix]

NewsToTom, on 22 June 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:

Thanks for the reply.  Reading your thoughts, I have a couple responses:
1) Stories of Kvothe are relatively well-known, even though the University isn't in Vintas.  Princess Ariel's story could be similarly well-known, whether because of her presumed association with Kvothe or otherwise, even if she isn't Vintish.

2) You're right that barrows seem to be largely a Vintish phenomenon, but we know they're not exclusively Vintish.  The one known barrow we've seen, in NOTW, was near Trebon.  In a metaphorical sense, Kvothe's rescue of Denna after the Mauthen fire could've been a rescue of a princess from a sleeping barrow king.  I'm not sure how much I believe this last part, but the existence of that barrow as an old imperial fort suggests there could be other barrows outside of Vintas.

I agree with 1. It's a fair point.

2. Is the one in NOTW a barrow?

"She continued to look at me expectantly. "And that means what, exactly?
Like he said, they found barrow stones."
"There aren't any barrows around here," I said. "People build barrows in
Vintas, where it's traditional, or in low, marshy places where you can't dig a
grave. We're probably five hundred miles away from a real barrow."
I walked closer to the farmhouse. "Besides, you don't use stones to build
barrows. Even if you did, you wouldn't use quarried, finished stone like this.
This was brought from a long ways off." I ran a hand over the smooth grey
stones of the wall. "Because someone wanted to build something that would
last. Something solid." I turned back to face Denna. "I think there's an old
hill fort buried here."
"But this is nowhere." She looked around aimlessly. "This is the outside
edge of nowhere. . . ."
"Now it is," I agreed. "But back when this was built?" I gestured to a
break in the trees to the north of the burned farmhouse. "Come over here
for a second. I want to look at something else."
Walking past the trees on the northern ridge of the hill gave a gorgeous
view of the surrounding countryside. The red and yellow of autumn leaves
were breathtaking. I could see a few houses and barns scattered about, surrounded
by golden fields, or pale green pieces of pasture with dots of white
sheep. I could see the stream where Denna and I had dandled our feet.
Looking north, I could see the bluffs Schiem had mentioned. The land
looked rougher there.
I nodded mostly to myself. "You can see thirty miles in every direction
here. The only hill with a better view is that one." I pointed to a tall hill obscuring
my view of the northern bluffs. "And that one practically comes to
a point. It's too narrow on top for any decent sized fortification."
She looked around thoughtfully, then nodded. "Fair enough, you've sold
me. There was a hill fort here. What now?" (NOTW 536-537).

What Kvothe says has the ring of truth. There is no barrow near Trebon. In any event my point was as much about draugar as about barrows themselves.

Oh and one more thing- the story that is told about Kvothe's Trebon adventures is the one about the draccus. The sleeping barrow kings is a different story. When Kvothe promises to tell Chronicler the truth behind the stories, well the adventures with Denna are the hidden part, the draccus the well known part.

Edited by Gaston de Foix, 23 June 2011 - 03:39 AM.

[faek]

Hi all again,

I've now bought a second pair of copies of the first book, this time in my native language. I don't remember having read in the thread about someone else doing the same so I'll post my high-level findings first and then look into stuff in more detail.

It should be remembered that PR did go through quite some trouble to inform the translators about what was important with names and such, and by comparing the books I hope to uncover what was really the important part of the names, songs and rhymes.

So, in no particular order, the first things that struck me:

• Lackless is renamed Lazzles, this has no special meaning (by name or rhyme) in my native tongue
  
• Cinder is renamed Sinter, this has no special meaning (by name or rhyme) in my native tongue. His real name is still Ferule. (Haliax keeps his name, as does Iax, Selitos, Lanre and Lyra)
  
• The song giving away the relationship to Netalia Lackless is removed(!). Probably because the rhyme is hard to translate in a good way.
  
• Parts of the language spoken by Kvothe and Bast (which the skin dancer also talks) is "translated", that is, it differs in a possible consistent way from the English version

There are lots of more stuff that I'll mention as soon as I have time to continue. If there's anything special that you'd like me too look up, please just comment about it in the thread!

[two_by_two]

faek, on 24 June 2011 - 01:54 AM, said:

Hi all again,

I've now bought a second pair of copies of the first book, this time in my native language. I don't remember having read in the thread about someone else doing the same so I'll post my high-level findings first and then look into stuff in more detail.

It should be remembered that PR did go through quite some trouble to inform the translators about what was important with names and such, and by comparing the books I hope to uncover what was really the important part of the names, songs and rhymes.

So, in no particular order, the first things that struck me:

• Lackless is renamed Lazzles, this has no special meaning (by name or rhyme) in my native tongue
• Cinder is renamed Sinter, this has no special meaning (by name or rhyme) in my native tongue. His real name is still Ferule. (Haliax keeps his name, as does Iax, Selitos, Lanre and Lyra)
• The song giving away the relationship to Netalia Lackless is removed(!). Probably because the rhyme is hard to translate in a good way.
• Parts of the language spoken by Kvothe and Bast (which the skin dancer also talks) is "translated", that is, it differs in a possible consistent way from the English version

There are lots of more stuff that I'll mention as soon as I have time to continue. If there's anything special that you'd like me too look up, please just comment about it in the thread!

Fascinating. Thank you very much! I'd actually meant to bring up the question if anyone spoke a non-English language well enough to try out a translated copy, but I'd forgotten. Out of curiousity, what language is your native language?

[Gaston de Foix]

faek, on 24 June 2011 - 01:54 AM, said:

Hi all again,

I've now bought a second pair of copies of the first book, this time in my native language. I don't remember having read in the thread about someone else doing the same so I'll post my high-level findings first and then look into stuff in more detail.

It should be remembered that PR did go through quite some trouble to inform the translators about what was important with names and such, and by comparing the books I hope to uncover what was really the important part of the names, songs and rhymes.

So, in no particular order, the first things that struck me:

• Lackless is renamed Lazzles, this has no special meaning (by name or rhyme) in my native tongue
  
• Cinder is renamed Sinter, this has no special meaning (by name or rhyme) in my native tongue. His real name is still Ferule. (Haliax keeps his name, as does Iax, Selitos, Lanre and Lyra)
  
• The song giving away the relationship to Netalia Lackless is removed(!). Probably because the rhyme is hard to translate in a good way.
  
• Parts of the language spoken by Kvothe and Bast (which the skin dancer also talks) is "translated", that is, it differs in a possible consistent way from the English version

There are lots of more stuff that I'll mention as soon as I have time to continue. If there's anything special that you'd like me too look up, please just comment about it in the thread!

I agree, fascinating, and thank you for the offer, faek.

off the top of my head...

(1) Does Auri keep her name or is it changed?

(2) what word is used for tinker?

(3) how does "Reshi" translate if at all?

(4) is there any word on the Four Plate Door: Valaritas?

[harvv]

Hi all, first time posting here as i found this to be the last active wmf thread hahah.  Man so many good ideas being thrown around, its been enjoyable just reading over them.  I thought id post a few of mine here and see what people thought.

Well this first idea i cant take credit for i just saw it somewhere and i hadnt thought of it at all in my readthrough so i thought it was very interesting
Auri is the Moon (she comes out at night and travels to the Underthing during the day)
Elodin is Manet - using two different Names (using the same questions at both the Eolian and during entrance testing)
Kvothe lost his power when he swore to Denna not to investigate her patron (he swore on his Name, his Power and his Left Hand

i thought his elodin / manet theory was pretty interesting.

Soooo a few of my own ideas.  Any feedback would be great, i appologized if any of these have already been discussed to death.  If they have maybe someone wouldnt mind pointing out a few revelations everyone had.

Timeline - A lot of people are surprised that not much has happened and we are already on the third book....but you have to remember whenever Kote is being described he is described as being young in his 20's but looks old and worn because of the lines on his face etc....so i was thinking we might possibly finish the story 3/4 of the way through the 3rd book and the end of the story might have only been like 2-5 years before Chronicler decided to find Kvothe.  A few years gives him enough time i think to blend  in...implanting himself in the local town and becoming a common person to everyone there.

His powers - I think the whole losing his powers because of changing his name is definitely where its at.  As mentioned Elodin FLIPS when Kvothe tells him a friend is changing her name every week or whatever....this would make sense in that it would cause something terrible to happen if one were to change their name(Having it locked in the box similar to the name of the Moon story with Jax i think his name is)  I dont think it has so much to do with just calling himself Kote...thats mostly just to fall off the radar. But on the name kote,  i really like how someone referred back to kilvins saying in another language about how the word Kote basically  meant disaster. At first i had this idea in my head that there was something possibly not right about Chronicler and that Kvothe was not showing his powers because he didnt want Chronicler to see his strength or something that would end up with Kote revealing that he knew who the Chronicler really was(possibly working/scouting for the Chandrian to find the man who had been hunting them), but ive definitely not given that a second thought now lol.

[on the chronicler idea above] - at first i discounted this idea due to the fact that the Chandrian wouldnt need any help in finding someone(seeing as how they magically appeared to kill Kvothes parents)...but i also thought that IFFF they were searching for him, they could have a difficult time tracking him down due to the fact that he changed his NAME name(or possibly locked it in the box similar to Jax and the moon....thus hiding it from anyone trying to learn it, including himself seeing as how he cant get into it).

The Amyr - Im at a loss as to who i think the Amyr close to the Maer might be....at first i thought it was the Maers soldier who he warns would just kill and destroy everything to get his target...this seems to halfway fit the Amyr in that they do whatever it takes to get their job done....but it doesnt follow their other philosophy in that they always do what they think is for the greater good of the peoples(the Amyr dont seem to be the type to take orders from anyone ESPECIALLY if these orders could lead to them doing something wrong in their eyes).  So this leads me to assume most of the Amyr must now be people with power or at least in positions where their actions arent really controlled by anyone(masters of the university)  Elodin MUST be associated with the Amyr in some way....hes just too all around BAMF to not be...possibly Lorren as well

Lorren - Okay so i have mixed ideas about Lorren....
.     [1]My first is that he is associated with the amyr.  He seems to be in the prime position for getting rid of info on the Amyr from the largest library in the world.(Puppet also in this position...the puppet character is very interesting to me, i hope we see more of him). And i also coudl think he is stashing information on the Chandrian/Amyr behind that vault door in his library.  Id say he would be hiding it there because he knows what has come of people [mentioning/even looking for] the names of the Chandrian...as well as keeping public knowledge of the Amyr to a minimum.
.     [2]My 2nd probably more wrong idea was that Lorren is associated with the Chandrian...considering they are somehow disposing of all information about themselves and Lorren leads the largest most extensive library ever.

The Amyr are one of the most interesting parts of the book for me...all the mystery behind them is great.

Also ELODIN...WTF....hes possibly the BAMFest person ever.  He noticed Kvothes cloak immediately(he knows a lot about the fae).....He makes Ademre hand gestures without even thinking about it(he knows a lot about ademre)...hell....he seems to know a lot about everything and i think hes the coolest character in the books by far, all the scenes with him in them are just exponentially more awesome than all the others.  Id like to know exactly how many rings/names he knows.  The scene in notw with the stone was amazing.

Edited by harvv, 24 June 2011 - 12:43 PM.

[unJon]

Welcome, harvv, nice first post!

harvv, on 24 June 2011 - 12:23 PM, said:

Elodin is Manet - using two different Names (using the same questions at both the Eolian and during entrance testing)

Hahahaha, my meme has spread throughout the interwebs!  Bow down, suckers.

[Sylvester]

Gaston de Foix, on 24 June 2011 - 03:12 AM, said:

I agree, fascinating, and thank you for the offer, faek.

off the top of my head...

(1) Does Auri keep her name or is it changed?

(2) what word is used for tinker?

(3) how does "Reshi" translate if at all?

(4) is there any word on the Four Plate Door: Valaritas?

Hi, I live in France and I just checked the answers to your questions in the French translation of tNotW.(they don't have WMF yet)

1) Auri's name isn't changed
2) "Tinker" is translated by "Retameur", which is a kind of a worker, so it's kind of a direct translation I think.
3) "Reshi" stays Reshi
4) "Valaritas" is still there

Other points:
-Cinder is translated as "Cendre", which means "Ash", but can apparently also mean cinder...so unclear about this point. (I have to admit I don't really know the difference between cinder and ash, if there is one)
-Lady Lackless stays Lady Lackless. So does Puppet, which is a bit surprising as it could be translated to "Marionnette", which means puppet in French, but I guess they must have sticked to the original name.
-Most of the other names stay the same (Lanre, Haliax, Ferula, the masters, Bast, Simmon, all the girls, including Denna...


Any other linguistic questions?

[two_by_two]

Sylvester, on 24 June 2011 - 01:03 PM, said:

Hi, I live in France and I just checked the answers to your questions in the French translation of tNotW.(they don't have WMF yet)

1) Auri's name isn't changed
2) "Tinker" is translated by "Retameur", which is a kind of a worker, so it's kind of a direct translation I think.
3) "Reshi" stays Reshi
4) "Valaritas" is still there

Other points:
-Cinder is translated as "Cendre", which means "Ash", but can apparently also mean cinder...so unclear about this point. (I have to admit I don't really know the difference between cinder and ash, if there is one)
-Lady Lackless stays Lady Lackless. So does Puppet, which is a bit surprising as it could be translated to "Marionnette", which means puppet in French, but I guess they must have sticked to the original name.
-Most of the other names stay the same (Lanre, Haliax, Ferula, the masters, Bast, Simmon, all the girls, including Denna...


Any other linguistic questions?

What is Master Ash called?