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The Long Price Quartet


A Time for Wolves

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Okay, I'm now considering purchasing the first novel in Daniel Abraham's series, after reading all the praise here and reading the free excerpt on Amazon a few weeks ago. Apart from the "poses" that all the characters seem to strike (WTF?), it seems really promising. (Seriously, what's with the "poses" and will I see a lot of that?)

Everyone has different opinions about books, of course, so when someone says, "If you like ASOIAF, you'll love this," - which happens all the time - I take it with a pinch of salt. People said that reading Scott Lynch, Bernard Cornwell and Pat Rothfuss would be an ASOIAF-like reading experience. I read those authors and ended up disagreeing.

So what I thought I'd do instead is ask general questions about The Long Price Quartet (spoiler free answers, please!) and I'd love it if Daniel Abraham fans could answer those questions for me.

1. WORLD-BUILDING - Does the world of The Long Price Quartet have the same depth, complexity and general murkiness of ASOIAF? From the excerpt I read, the Cotton City (I can't remember its name now, but you know what I mean) seemed refreshingly low-key on the magic and the author seems to place emphasis on trade, commerce and all the more earthy aspects of world-building. But the "poses" kind of caught me off guard here - if you're going to develop a culture, can't you at least explain what those "poses" are? I started imagining weird ballet poses. Is the culture of this world well developed and original otherwise?

2. PLOT - Are many levels of storytelling, in the sense that, are there subplots and limited/biased perspectives, cleverly hidden truths, and interesting conflict between equally intelligent and equally matched characters or parties?

3. CHARACTERS - From the excerpt I read, I think it starts out with this old woman wandering around Cotton City and eventually getting into a bathtub with her boss to discuss business. She seemed mildly interesting in the excerpt, mainly because it was nice to read about a normal woman with a clever brain, instead of a hot chick in leather or a spunky little princess.

- So, do the female characters successfully evade fantasy stereotypes, or are there any of the usual suspects (like the ones mentioned above)?

- Do the characters' personalities stand out vividly, are their flaws acknowledged and do they face consequences for their decisions, even the main protagonists?

- As a reader do you ever feel, when two characters are in conflict, that both of them seem equally interesting and you can't decide who to root for?

4. DIALOGUE - Realistic? Funny, in a black way? Does it give some flavor to the culture/setting these characters live in? I didn't get any real feel of the world from the excerpt's dialogue, maybe because the female character was a bit brisk and business-like.

Right, those are my questions!

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Everyone has different opinions about books, of course, so when someone says, "If you like ASOIAF, you'll love this," - which happens all the time - I take it with a pinch of salt. People said that reading Scott Lynch, Bernard Cornwell and Pat Rothfuss would be an ASOIAF-like reading experience. I read those authors and ended up disagreeing.

I don't think you should expect it to be an ASOIAF-like reading experience. It's a very good series (particularly the latter two books) but in terms of plot, setting and writing style it isn't that similar to ASOIAF.

1. WORLD-BUILDING - Does the world of The Long Price Quartet have the same depth, complexity and general murkiness of ASOIAF? From the excerpt I read, the Cotton City (I can't remember its name now, but you know what I mean) seemed refreshingly low-key on the magic and the author seems to place emphasis on trade, commerce and all the more earthy aspects of world-building. But the "poses" kind of caught me off guard here - if you're going to develop a culture, can't you at least explain what those "poses" are? I started imagining weird ballet poses. Is the culture of this world well developed and original otherwise?

You're never going to find out what the poses look like. I do think the world building is well-developed and I thought it was a very original world. I wouldn't say there's as much complexity in the world-building as in ASOIAF, we never get to find out as much about the history of the world as we do in ASOIAF (and we don't really need to).

2. PLOT - Are many levels of storytelling, in the sense that, are there subplots and limited/biased perspectives, cleverly hidden truths, and interesting conflict between equally intelligent and equally matched characters or parties?

I think this is the series' main strength. It is an unusual fantasy conflict in the sense that for most of the series there are no battles (there is a single one in the series) and not much violence. It is a good example of how to write a series about a conflict between two civilisations where the conflict isn't primarily fought with armies. There are some subplots, although not as many as in ASOIAF.

3. CHARACTERS - - So, do the female characters successfully evade fantasy stereotypes, or are there any of the usual suspects (like the ones mentioned above)?

- Do the characters' personalities stand out vividly, are their flaws acknowledged and do they face consequences for their decisions, even the main protagonists?

- As a reader do you ever feel, when two characters are in conflict, that both of them seem equally interesting and you can't decide who to root for?

I think you'll be happy with the characterisation in all these areas. For the third point in particular, the antagonist in the third book does some terrible things but considering his aims you could make a very good argument for him really being the hero of the book (certainly from his country's perspective).

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I don't get the problem with the poses - i always thought it was clear they were meant to be hand movements? Sort of like a sign languag to accompany the spoken language that are very nuanced and complex. I could be wrong, of course, but i thought it was made evident they were not full body poses.

The world building i would say is minimal, and not very deep. The culture-building, however, is amazing, and incredibly rich. I never got a sense of the world in the Long Price being particuarly complex or interesting. It always felt very empty to me, seeing as we never see any of it. The cultures are done brilliantly though - i get a clear picture of the culture and lifestyles of these people more so then i do for most other series. I am particuarly fond of the names, featuring alot of double vowels and soft consonants.

The plot is always done well, and fairly complex. The characterisation too is very strong. The two main characters, Maati and Otah have a very interesting relationship that progresses throughout the series. Perhaps the most interesting thing is (very minor spoiler about the structure of the books here)

the way there is a several year gap between each book, allowing you to see the characters at different points in their lives. There is a big difference between Otah as a young man and Otah as an older, wiser person - while still being consistent.

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OP - what's with all the questions? Why not just read it and see? If you're really this interested you're obviously going to anyway.

1. WORLD-BUILDING - Does the world of The Long Price Quartet have the same depth, complexity and general murkiness of ASOIAF? From the excerpt I read, the Cotton City (I can't remember its name now, but you know what I mean) seemed refreshingly low-key on the magic and the author seems to place emphasis on trade, commerce and all the more earthy aspects of world-building. But the "poses" kind of caught me off guard here - if you're going to develop a culture, can't you at least explain what those "poses" are? I started imagining weird ballet poses. Is the culture of this world well developed and original otherwise?

The world-building is quite shallow. It definitely isn't deep or complex like ASOIAF, nor it is sprawling but spread thin like Malazan or WOT. You'll get to know a couple of cities quite well, and that's about it. Trade and commerce are mentioned a couple of times but do not play an important role in the books.

2. PLOT - Are many levels of storytelling, in the sense that, are there subplots and limited/biased perspectives, cleverly hidden truths, and interesting conflict between equally intelligent and equally matched characters or parties?

Yes to the bolded bits, no to the rest.

- So, do the female characters successfully evade fantasy stereotypes, or are there any of the usual suspects (like the ones mentioned above)?

- Do the characters' personalities stand out vividly, are their flaws acknowledged and do they face consequences for their decisions, even the main protagonists?

- As a reader do you ever feel, when two characters are in conflict, that both of them seem equally interesting and you can't decide who to root for?

Yes to all of these.

4. DIALOGUE - Realistic? Funny, in a black way? Does it give some flavor to the culture/setting these characters live in? I didn't get any real feel of the world from the excerpt's dialogue, maybe because the female character was a bit brisk and business-like.

The dialogue is nothing to write home about. It's pretty straightforward. And it's not funny, but it doesn't really try to be.

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I liked The Long Price Quartet better than ASOIAF actually. But who's to say if you'll feel the same? Just read the books and decide for yourself.

Re: the poses, yes they really annoyed me too. I never got a good feel for what they were supposed to look like. However, as you read you kind of get used to them, and they also seem to take less prominence in each successive book.

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Ill see if it holds up over time in my mind but Long Price is one of my top three series.

Only thing ill respond to is, why the problems with poses. Abraham has a culture that developed a much more visual communication.

A pose shows understanding or requests clarification, shows respect, and a hundred other things that we typically use speech to do.

After a few pages I just accepted them as part of the world.

IIRC, didnt the theme get explored a bit in Clan of the Cave Bear? Or am I mixing up ild book memories?

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Thanks for the responses, everyone, especially williamjm and Migey.

OP - what's with all the questions? Why not just read it and see? If you're really this interested you're obviously going to anyway.

Totally valid question. When you're on a student budget and are saving up for all kinds of things, you think twenty times before purchasing a book you're not quite sure of. ;) Also because I bought "The Name of the Wind" just from glancing at brief recommendations here, without asking any of the above detailed questions. If I had asked those questions, I never would have bought it. I could barely bring myself to finish it. And with "The Lies of Locke Lamora", I also bought it after glancing at recommendations here, but not asking questions. While I ended up liking that one, I didn't like it enough to re-read it, and I realized I could've just gotten it from the library instead of buying it.

But now after reading the responses here, I'm going to go ahead and get the first novel in The Long Price. I was pretty sure I was going to buy it anyway, since my library doesn't have it, but this time I just wanted to ask anyway so I knew what to expect in advance. :)

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But the "poses" kind of caught me off guard here - if you're going to develop a culture, can't you at least explain what those "poses" are? I started imagining weird ballet poses.

It's very clear from the books what poses are, and that they're a subtle language that is not supposed to be imagined visually.

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I cannot think of a completed series in the past decade and a half that has given me as much satisfaction as the Long Price Quartet. Totally different from ASOIAF and totally worth your time. :thumbsup:

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It was pretty clear to me what the poses were, but what annoyed me was their overwhelming specificity. The nuance that could supposedly be conveyed that way just seemed over the top.

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I just finished the second book of the series and, honestly, if more epic/traditional fantasy was written like this, I would still enjoy the subgenre instead of finding it trite and tedious. The books aren't perfect, but they are very well written with superb plotting and characterization. I remain unimpressed by the prose, the poses annoy me because they are often used and never described, and the cities seem more like flimsy theatrical backdrops than living breathing places, but these are minor in the scheme of things. I love a book that manages to surprise me instead of falling in line with my plot guesswork and A Betrayal in Winter managed that a couple times.

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The poses thing didn't bother me at all, considering in some Asian cultures bowing even a centimeter too much/too less could result in you getting your head chopped off. I like that it added a feel of real alienness to the culture.

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If you're surprised and delighted by A Betrayal in Winter, An Autumn War will kick your ass. It's awesome.

Sounds like you've decided to go with it -- good choice in my opinion -- but I'll add my voice to the consensus on a couple things: The world as such is really not the focus of Abraham's building; there are one or two cities we spend a good deal of time in but that's about as detailed as it gets. It's the cultures that get the attention, and they still live in my brain. The magic is pretty much the double-whammy of excellence: understated but integral to the plot. It's also engenius, exactly the best sort of fantastical element, taking a concept and running with it. The characters are a highlight, certainly, and watching them relate to each other and grow is the main draw of the series.

The plot isn't simple, but it is in no way shape or form plotted like ASoIaF. Each book is a free-standing episode contributing to a larger whole, rather than a piece of a single monster plot with cliff-hangers etc. Plus the books are very concise; the longest is perhaps half AFFC's length. It's a deeply satisfying plot, but on its own terms. Much quieter, for one thing. Abraham's most powerful plot / character moments tend to be delivered gently -- not always but usually.

I think it was Dagger who said this is the most satisfying completed secondary world fantasy series they've encountered in the last ten years or so. I'd agree. There'd be some competition, from Sarah Monette's The Doctrine of Labyrinths, off the top of my head, but really nothing passes The Long Price so far as completed series last decade go. Least so far as I'm concerned.

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I just finished the second book of the series and, honestly, if more epic/traditional fantasy was written like this, I would still enjoy the subgenre instead of finding it trite and tedious. The books aren't perfect, but they are very well written with superb plotting and characterization. I remain unimpressed by the prose, the poses annoy me because they are often used and never described, and the cities seem more like flimsy theatrical backdrops than living breathing places, but these are minor in the scheme of things. I love a book that manages to surprise me instead of falling in line with my plot guesswork and A Betrayal in Winter managed that a couple times.

I felt Winter was the best book in the series and the only one somewhat deserving of the hype heaped upon these books. I really felt more of interest could have been done with the Andats.

I also felt the more interesting POV characters only had one book each as POV, then when they appeared as side characters later they became quite flat and pointless, which was weird, like Abraham didn't really know what to do with them after finishing their story. Seemed like a waste.

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Not much to add that hasn't already been said. The Long Price is really nothing like ASOIAF or The Name of the Wind, yet all three completely blew me away (albeit for totally different reasons). ASOIAF is all about larger than life characters, epic scope and gritty realism. TNOTW is a conventional story with a poetic writing style. The Long Price is a quiet story of real people dealing with the consequences of their magic system, and what happens when some people have it and others don't. Basically, it's more about ideas than action. And that doesn't begin to describe it. It has to be one of the most thought-provoking books I've ever read.

Of the 4 books in the Long Price, book 1 is good(ish), 2 is better and 3 and 4 are mind-blowing. For the Kindle-ised, you can pick up the omnibus editions (1/2 in one volume, 3/4 in another) at a very good price.

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Huh. Guess I'm alone in considering book 3 by far the weakest in the series. I loved book one and rank books two and four only very slightly below it, but on a reread I honestly think I'd be tempted to skip book 3. (Or skim it--on reflection, it does contain a lot of my favorite andat.) Establishing clear character motivations is one of the series' strong points, but I thought that ball got dropped on at least two major characters in An Autumn War. I also generally find open warfare a lot less interesting to read about than the subjects of the other three books, so maybe that's part of it.

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