The Long Price Quartet

[Shryke]

I don't see who's motivation was unclear in book 3.

I'd consider book 2 by far the weakest. It's very much the "put the pieces in place" book. Although it does do a nice job of showing the society and it's ills, it felt very ... empty. Like it only really existed because book 3 required Character X to be in place Y and the author couldn't gloss over that change.

[mormont]

I think that I couldn't honestly identify a 'weakest' book in this series. They all have different strengths.

[Ellroy]

The series is nothing like ASoIaF and it's pretty unique, if not for the influence of GRRM on the genre as a whole in the last years.

It's a very good read in itself, especially the first three books. I especially loved the second one. While I found the fourth to be the weakest.

The weakest point of those books are Abraham's female charachters. I really cannot stand them. The strongest point is the novelty and verosimilitude of his world building.

[wolverine]

Just finished A Shadow in Summer and thought it was decent but not something to make me rush out and get the next 3. For the most part I was interested throughout the book but I just wasn't drawn to care as much about the characters as I do for something like a GRRM book.

Anyhow, there seems to be some consensus that the first book may be the weakest. If so, or if the others are at least as good I would like to continue reading. I have a big to-be-read pile and am not near as fast as many readers on here.

I am also hesitant to continue because the most interesting character, Seedless, is gone and I didn't not find any other characters near as interesting. I actually quite dislike Liat and if the books continued about her and Maati I don't think I would want to read them.

Also had a problem with the ridiculously complex plot to potenitally break the poet when far fewer people would need to know about an assassination, which would not be difficult to hide when he the alcoholic poet constantly wanders the lower parts of the city. I get that an abortion gone awry would probably not have reason to be investigated as a plot to destroy the poet like an unexpected death, but he is just too unprotected for me.

Edit: Without search working I don't know if there is a separate thread to talk about A Shadow in Summer.

[AUyushu]

Just finished A Shadow in Summer and thought it was decent but not something to make me rush out and get the next 3. For the most part I was interested throughout the book but I just wasn't drawn to care as much about the characters as I do for something like a GRRM book.

Anyhow, there seems to be some consensus that the first book may be the weakest. If so, or if the others are at least as good I would like to continue reading. I have a big to-be-read pile and am not near as fast as many readers on here.

I guess I have kinda the same questions as Wolverine about the series. I read the first and found it decent, but nothing all that special. I'm a fan of eastern culture in general and found the culture in the book to be good, but the characters were very weak and the world building and plot/pacing I found to be so so. From reading the first book I had a very Tad Williams from Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn vibe. I felt the same way about M,S & T when I read the first book, but wound up reading the rest of the series and regretting it (that series kept me barely interested enough to read through, but at the end I was just reading to finish it).

I enjoyed the poet setup, but not a ton was really done with it, which was disappointing. I'm kinda curious if that changes going forward, and if the characters get any more interesting. I'm also curious if the pace picks up at all, or if it's just a slow buildup all the way through, with any action taking place in the final book.

[red snow]

Books 1 and 2 are pretty much set up. The shit hits the fan in books 3 and 4 and they are excellent. In hindsight there are character beats and themes in the first 2 books that are essential to the pay off. Most comments on the board tend to echo the same feelings.

Personally the first two books had an interesting concept and the chararcters are very good but not the kind of characters I'm usually a big fan of - essentially they are flawed people who are inherently good. I tend to gravitate to flawed people who are evil fucks with a shred of warped decency residing in them. It makes a nice change to read something different every now and then though.I like to think of the series as "optimisitic" mature fantasy, although that doesn't mean nothing bad happens.

I think I left a gap between the first and second omnibus as I thought I'd leave it for a gap in my reading. I don't regret for a moment giving the second omnibus a shot though.

Book 2 isn't that long and there's a nice murder mystery (although I think Abraham makes the mistake of letting us know the murderer while several characters continue to investigate) and an interesting new Andat to keep things ticking over. It's not huge on action though and I think that's what a lot of people tend to be put off by. There are some important developments for the two central characters though.

So it mainly depends on why you are underwhelmed by the first 1-2 books. If you don't really like the approach to the characters then that doesn't change (although there are some great villains in the last two). If you feel the story isn't big enough then that definitely changes in the final two books when the things at stake move far beyond one city and their Andat.

[SkynJay]

Also remember we see the characters grow more than any other series. Literally through entire lifetimes. So characters you are not fond of in one may be completely different in the next book.

But if you find the books slow, not sure what to tell you. War is only prevalent in the one book, the books are about relying on magic, and what happens.

Also

There isn't much reason to protect the poet because what is happening is inconceivable to the people of the city. Literally everyone benefits from the poet and Seedless. And if the poet wasn't such a broken man, he should be able to protect himself through Seedless

[Lupigis]

Just finished A Shadow in Summer and thought it was decent but not something to make me rush out and get the next 3. For the most part I was interested throughout the book but I just wasn't drawn to care as much about the characters as I do for something like a GRRM book.

Anyhow, there seems to be some consensus that the first book may be the weakest. If so, or if the others are at least as good I would like to continue reading. I have a big to-be-read pile and am not near as fast as many readers on here.

I am also hesitant to continue because the most interesting character, Seedless, is gone and I didn't not find any other characters near as interesting. I actually quite dislike Liat and if the books continued about her and Maati I don't think I would want to read them.

Also had a problem with the ridiculously complex plot to potenitally break the poet when far fewer people would need to know about an assassination, which would not be difficult to hide when he the alcoholic poet constantly wanders the lower parts of the city. I get that an abortion gone awry would probably not have reason to be investigated as a plot to destroy the poet like an unexpected death, but he is just too unprotected for me.

Edit: Without search working I don't know if there is a separate thread to talk about A Shadow in Summer.

I bought the omnibus edition of the first two books, read them, and thought that they were OK but not outstanding. I decided to wait until I could get book 3 and 4 as an omnibus in paperback. That took about a year and a half, but I wasn't in a hurry. Then I finally bought them and was very impressed. I really think that the second half of the quartet is a much stronger read.

If you think the first book was at least decent, do give the rest of the series a shot. I don't think you will regret it!

[wolverine]

I see there is a "Seasons of War" that has the last two books in it. Getting that would be much cheaper than having to get both of the last two but it would be a shame not to have both of the original book covers. I think the cover art in this series deserves some rewarding as much hideous SFF cover art is out there.

[williamjm]

I am also hesitant to continue because the most interesting character, Seedless, is gone and I didn't not find any other characters near as interesting. I actually quite dislike Liat and if the books continued about her and Maati I don't think I would want to read them.

(vague spoilers for the other books in the series, only mentioning how much various characters appear in them) :

There are other andats in the rest of the series, some who play significant roles. They all have distinct personalities, so I'm not sure if you'll find them as interesting as Seedless, but I thought Stone-Made-Soft in book 2, for example, was also an interesting character.

Liat appears a bit later in the series (I think just in book 2 as far as I can remember), she does a couple of reasonably significant things in terms of the plot, but doesn't appear in it much. Maati does play a significant role in all the books in the series, his rivalry with Otah is very important to the story.

Book 2 isn't that long and there's a nice murder mystery (although I think Abraham makes the mistake of letting us know the murderer while several characters continue to investigate) and an interesting new Andat to keep things ticking over.

I'm not sure I agree it's a mistake to let us know who the murderer is, since I don't think Abraham is trying to write a mystery and he's more interested in the effect that murder has on the murderer. I thought the character development of the murderer was probably the most interesting thing in that book, and it wouldn't have been possible to explore that without revealing who the killer was early on.

[PaulineMRoss]

Anyhow, there seems to be some consensus that the first book may be the weakest. If so, or if the others are at least as good I would like to continue reading.

I certainly found the first to be the weakest. There are plot holes big enough to drive a coach and horses through, the character setup is wobbly and the whole 'sad trade' business felt odd, to me. But book 2 is better (although still with some plot issues), and books 3 and 4 I found completely mind-blowing. Epic fantasy at its best, and one of the most thought-provoking stories I've ever read. Everything grows through the series - the characters, the scope of the plot, the depth of the issues, the enormity of the consequences of actions from decades earlier (the prologue, even!) - so if you can deal with Abraham's writing style and the poses (and not everyone can) it's worth persevering.

[polishgenius]

After reading the final two, it felt to me like the first one was written somewhat earlier. It doesn't feel quite as much part of the cohesive whole as the other three do together, it stands alone much more. And book 2 covers a lot of the same introductory points to the series:

The andat and specifically their struggle against their poet, the fear of the Galts and plots to bring the poets down.

It feels a bit like 1 is a prelude or extended prologue- not quite The Hobbit but along those lines- and then the three together make one story.

That would somewhat make sense for a debut book that then resulted in a publisher snapping up the four-book series, but I'm obviously speculating here.

[red snow]

I'm not sure I agree it's a mistake to let us know who the murderer is, since I don't think Abraham is trying to write a mystery and he's more interested in the effect that murder has on the murderer. I thought the character development of the murderer was probably the most interesting thing in that book, and it wouldn't have been possible to explore that without revealing who the killer was early on.

I don't doubt that it was Abraham's intention and yes it was interesting to see the effect on the killer. My main problem is that one of the central characters essentially becomes the "detective" and has several chapters where this is his main goal. The fact I'd already been told who the killer was rendered his story pointless and even worse made the character come off as dim witted and stupid. Unless the intention is to make him appear a bit stupid and out of his depth, which may be possible but still makes those chapters frustrating.

I think the first book still works within the series. It allows us to see the characters at their youngest, naivest and most optimistic and it does set up the andat fairly well.

The other thing I'm wondering is whether there was a lot of editorial control in book one. This isn't unusual for a first time author and the leash often slackens for the follow ups.

[Reposado]

I certainly found the first to be the weakest. There are plot holes big enough to drive a coach and horses through, the character setup is wobbly and the whole 'sad trade' business felt odd, to me. But book 2 is better (although still with some plot issues), and books 3 and 4 I found completely mind-blowing. Epic fantasy at its best, and one of the most thought-provoking stories I've ever read. Everything grows through the series - the characters, the scope of the plot, the depth of the issues, the enormity of the consequences of actions from decades earlier (the prologue, even!) - so if you can deal with Abraham's writing style and the poses (and not everyone can) it's worth persevering.

Hm I felt the same about the first. I did like the world set up but the plot rang hollow. I haven't read the last two yet, but someone who didn't love the first liking them makes me feel better about it. thanks

[Tears of Lys]

(vague spoilers for the other books in the series, only mentioning how much various characters appear in them) :

There are other andats in the rest of the series, some who play significant roles. They all have distinct personalities, so I'm not sure if you'll find them as interesting as Seedless, but I thought Stone-Made-Soft in book 2, for example, was also an interesting character.

Liat appears a bit later in the series (I think just in book 2 as far as I can remember), she does a couple of reasonably significant things in terms of the plot, but doesn't appear in it much. Maati does play a significant role in all the books in the series, his rivalry with Otah is very important to the story.

I'm not sure I agree it's a mistake to let us know who the murderer is, since I don't think Abraham is trying to write a mystery and he's more interested in the effect that murder has on the murderer. I thought the character development of the murderer was probably the most interesting thing in that book, and it wouldn't have been possible to explore that without revealing who the killer was early on.

I thought Stone-Made-Soft was a wonderful character, as interesting as Seedless in its own way. The way it contrasted with its master yet was clearly a reflection of parts of him was every bit as compelling, I thought, as Seedless was with Heshai.

This series is not a bit like aSoIaF. It focuses in on the individual and how choices can reverberate throughout a life. AND how unique and precious each individual is. It's one of the few book(s) that can bring me to tears.

Edited because I tend to repeat myself. :P

[wolverine]

You've definitely gotten me interested. I also have a pretty good grasp of French (only language beyond my native English for which I can say that), so that's nice.

I don't have any formal Latin training, but knowing some French shouldn't hurt there.

Dunnett is pretty awesome. I know next to 0 French or Latin and found the books very enjoyable. There are definitely references that went over my head but I don't know if understanding the exact words he is saying are essential to the story since the mainly serve just to show how intelligent he is. I could be wrong though.

[Iskaral Pust]

I've read the first 3 and I'm on my way to order the 4th. I think this series is excellent. It's a refreshing change from most of the genre, which can be repetitive. I tend to be a big fan of world-building, but this series has a wonderful light touch in that regard (which in this case works just as well as detailed, explicit exposition does elsewhere) and offers a much more personal insight on the characters.

The culture based on east Asia also provides some variation from the typical Medieval European foundation, and I liked the plot of the risks and fear in

making a pre-emptive strike against a super-power.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

First book is the weakest. the books get better after that.

[End of Disc One]

The first one was my favorite for personal reasons. I just loved the feel of it, a group of teenage kids spending the summer in the city, with their teenage problems in a world with bigger problems. It was very nostalgic for me and I found myself identifying with Maati to a shocking degree.

[Errant Bard]

I have a feeling that the Long Price books hinge more than most on an identification factor, in a total opposite way from, say, Prince of Nothing. I know I love the way they captured what I did (and still do) feel about some life experiences, and damn, that part in the last book was so... true, it actually made me cry.

I mean, the plot is good, but the actual resonance between what's in it and what the reader feels adds definitely something compared to other good books. Mileage will vary but I think Daniel is great at evocation, amply making up for the slow pace or the slightly bland-ish feeling some parts have.