251 replies to this topic

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Loved it. 10/10. Battle scenes hardly matter, and Ned's execution was more emotional for me than the books. Great stuff.

Big budget battle scenes are movie territory guys, don't expect it from a character driven TV show, that's all I'll say. There may be exceptions I guess.

Edited by Ser_not_appearing_yet, 13 June 2011 - 12:56 AM.

[brokor]

2 details that i missed greatly in this episode and kinda ruined the experience although i appreciate the producers' work:

Bastard sword comment. as people that have read the books know, longclaw is neither a 1h sword nor a 2h sword. it is a "bastard" sword, like john.
loved this comment in the books and i rly missed it from the series.

Tyrion's story about tysha and how he had her last but gave her a gold coin, cause after all a lannister is worth more.
the story made no sense to me or the people that i watched it with (that havent read the books) without this last piece of information. what the story left us is that tysha was a whore that fucked the barracks (excuse my language). we missed that critical character development for tyrion...


also shae is baddd. nothing like how i envisioned the role and her accent makes my ears bleed. bad casting imo, the first one in the series so far(apart from the age differencies which i can tolerate). but maybe that's just me.
didnt care enough for the battles, but one scene in the dark with hooves echoing between trees in the whispering wood would be plain awesome. that confusion and panic from both soldiers and horses i felt when reading the novels was breathtaking. wish i had seen it in the series.
also grey wind... they make ghost growl and bark but not grey wind? whats up with that.





anyway the 2 details i stated first are my biggest disappointment because they wouldnt cost anything in budget or screen time which imo goes to show that the writer didnt have an understanding of the show and just chose to represent some lines of dialogue without their deeper meaning.

excited for the last episode. will stay tuned in the forum aswell to learn about blu-ray releases and such.


edit: about the last scene which many of you comment on. i didnt have a problem with it but it didnt move me as much as the books did. maybe ti is because when i see sean bean's face i immediately envision him saying :'i would follow you. my brother, my captain, my KING' so i dont think i will ever be able to buy him as another character.
the character that plays yoren is amazing. and once again arya is the only girl in the world that could play this role.
damn i need to rewatch lotr... when will the blu ray extended trilogy come out!!!!

Edited by brokor, 13 June 2011 - 12:59 AM.

[SFA-OK]

Pretty much every episode, including this one, has been around a 6 or 7 out of 10 for me (probably closer to 6, to be honest). And the reasons for that score are pretty much the same every episode.

I didn't mind the Tyrion backstory scene too much. Shae is definitely not what I pictured (especially her accent, did she have one in the book?), same goes for Walder Frey, definitely not how I pictured him. The actor who is playing Bronn is doing a really good job, even though the character is definitely different than the one in the book, IMO, I'm liking how he is handling the character.

The budget constraints really showed in this episode. One of the best scenes so far in the show, IMO, was Tyrion addressing the different tribes right before battle. I thought it done really well and Dinkledge's facial expressions were hilarious. But then he gets knocked out before the battle even starts? OK, I guess I can live with that but what is starting to bug me is how, no matter what the scene is - Dany and the Dothraki, Robb, Tywin, Winterfell or King's Landing, there is ALWAYS what seems to be about 20-30 people in the scene. It's killing the "epicness" of the story. Robb says he has 20,000 men, but I'm not sure if I believe him! Because from the looks of things he has about 30! If the show was being filmed in a more abstract or artsy way, it'd be easier to overlook this, but the show is shot in a very literal, down-the-middle way and so these omissions are starting to really stick out for me. I think someone on here mentioned it has to do with the SAG, hopefully HBO can fix this.

I thought Ned's execution was done really well. I think people that haven't read the books will be pretty shocked, it mirrored the book really well.

[Bronn Stone]

brokor, on 13 June 2011 - 12:56 AM, said:

2 details that i missed greatly in this episode and kinda ruined the experience although i appreciate the producers' work:

Bastard sword comment. as people that have read the books know, longclaw is neither a 1h sword nor a 2h sword. it is a "bastard" sword, like john.
loved this comment in the books and i rly missed it from the series.

The character's name is Jon, not John.  You are pissing about details but can't remember the name of one of the leads.  While those names sound identical, their derivations are totally different.  Making that mistake whilst nitpicking elsewhere seems a bit out of line.

[BookWyrm]

I don't see much substance added to a story or character in any of the battles that they could have (or could have not: $$) added to the episode, the desire for this seems masturbatory. Martin's characters are so complex and go through so much as a result of war. War's consequences seem to be more important than the heat-of-the-moment action scenes. That's a lust that can be sated with practically any old hollywood film nowadays.

Considering also the logistical inefficiency of using precious air time to show something easily glossed over in so complex a story. Getting to know about Tyrion and Tysha was more important than watching Jaime's sword go back and forth with the redundancy of watching leaves fall off of a tree. In the end one can infer the tree lost it's leaves and that Jaime lost the battle. Though GRRM writes suspenseful action sequences, imho that's not what makes him particularly special.

I think the episode stayed fairly true to the spirit of the books. Such a monumental story was deftly handled and I say deserves a 10. As GRRM shows, one can be emotionally pulled to the edge of one's seat, without falling to the sating of a lust. The best one to date I think...

Also... did Martin himself actually show the Battle of the Whispering Wood? It's been awhile but I don't actually remember a firsthand account from the books so it seems strange to me to expect the show to spent massive time and money on it.

[Asarlai]

Bronn Stone, on 13 June 2011 - 01:05 AM, said:

The character's name is Jon, not John.  You are pissing about details but can't remember the name of one of the leads.  While those names sound identical, their derivations are totally different.  Making that mistake whilst nitpicking elsewhere seems a bit out of line.

That poster also used things like "rly," so I doubt they were going for a grammatically correct post (alas). However, I think the spelling of Jon's name (given that the derivation plays no role in ASoIaF) in an internet post is less important than the inclusion of the (unnecessary but character-building) detail of the sword in the TV series. So, rather than insulting the poster, I feel it's best to discuss the point. Throwing in "Huh, a bastard sword" would have been brief but keeping with the theme.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

TamTam Rapley, on 13 June 2011 - 12:52 AM, said:

They didn't do a battle period. And condemning the condemners, way to take the high road. As a paying customer, I can complain all I want. If this was free, then yes I would have no grounds but it's not. So just live with it.

LOLWUT???

Sorry but that is hilarious. Paying customer? Remind me, where did you sign a contract with HBO where the small print mentioned epic battle sequences?

They are adapting ASOIAF, not Conan the Barbarian. We DON'T need to see Tyrion flailing around with some stuntmen. This isn't LOTR, and was never going to be. Even if they did go to the expense, they'd hardly be able to visually beat movies, so it would be pointless anyway. Tyrion's backstory >>>>>>>>> The Greenfork.

[Gilead]

9/10 I guess.

I'm glad they didn't show the battle. That is to say I'm glad they knocked Tyrion out rather than have him fight in it; had they done that it would've looked so over-the-top absurd it would've been tough to watch.

That was a part I was dreading. Works on paper, not on film. Glad they tweaked it.

Is this one of the sections you're not supposed to post spoilers in? Well, I'll put spoiler tags around it just in case.

Spoiler

Next up - how potentially bad the dragons look. This show could very well jump the shark when they hatch the eggs.

[Asarlai]

Gilead, on 13 June 2011 - 01:15 AM, said:

Spoiler

Next up - how potentially bad the dragons look. This show could very well jump the shark when they hatch the eggs.

Spoiler

By which you mean the dragons will be like tiny jumping sharks?

[Bronn Stone]

SFA-OK, on 13 June 2011 - 01:01 AM, said:

I think someone on here mentioned it has to do with the SAG, hopefully HBO can fix this.

SAG is an American organization and has no effect here.  Except that they recognize their British and European equivalents.  But there is no fixing it, without creating a labor crisis. Unionised/Unionized labor is a fixture in television production.  Go outside the union structure and you lose every actor in the show.  Unless they are willing to never work again after this job.  Plus you lose all of the trades, unless every cameraperson, lighting person, CG person (etc) is willing to never again work on a union project.

[TamTam Rapley]

BookWyrm, on 13 June 2011 - 01:07 AM, said:

I don't see much substance added to a story or character in any of the battles that they could have (or could have not: $$) added to the episode, the desire for this seems masturbatory. Martin's characters are so complex and go through so much as a result of war. War's consequences seem to be more important than the heat-of-the-moment action scenes. That's a lust that can be sated with practically any old hollywood film nowadays.

Considering also the logistical inefficiency of using precious air time to show something easily glossed over in so complex a story. Getting to know about Tyrion and Tysha was more important than watching Jaime's sword go back and forth with the redundancy of watching leaves fall off of a tree. In the end one can infer the tree lost it's leaves and that Jaime lost the battle. Though GRRM writes suspenseful action sequences, imho that's not what makes him particularly special.

I think the episode stayed fairly true to the spirit of the books. Such a monumental story was deftly handled and I say deserves a 10. As GRRM shows, one can be emotionally pulled to the edge of one's seat, without falling to the sating of a lust. The best one to date I think...

Also... did Martin himself actually show the Battle of the Whispering Wood? It's been awhile but I don't actually remember a firsthand account from the books so it seems strange to me to expect the show to spent massive time and money on it.

The show is a visual medium whereas the books are a collection of third person povs. Robb wasn't a pov in the books but in the show he happens to be far more important because we're actually seeing his actions compared to hearing about from Bran's or Catelyn's pov. Point is, it's redundant for the show to be follow a pov arc during battle scenes because the drama of the show isn't pov centric but rather shows us everything in an ominiscient manner. For example, the show isn't pov centric like the books because we get additional scenes of other characters i.e Littlefinger, Joffrey, Cersei, Varys, Loras, Renly etc.

[malarky1231]

Terrible terrible. I was hoping for an epic battle at the Green Forks, but I only saw the aftermath. If there was thing I was looking forward to the most this season, it had to be this battle, and they cut it. Why spend money on pointless sex scenes and extra scenes not from the book? They could've used this money to depict the battle. I'm also disappointed how Grey Wind got no screen time, Roose Bolton and Karstark are absent. Where the hell is the Blackfish? They could've at least mentioned Karstark's sons getting cut down. That means Karstark is cut from the show, and his whole mutiny thing is absent from the 3rd book. I wouldn't be surprised if Bolton is cut out from the show, bc they could just get the Freys to mastermind the whole Red Wedding scene. I had such high hopes for this episode, and this last part of the series. Now i know better, lower expectations are needed to enjoy this show.

However I heard Martin will be writing the S2 episode about the Battle of Blackwater. So don't worry, there will be a battle eventually, a year from now. Next time, you can be sure not to be let down during the most crucial moment of the 2nd book.

[Asarlai]

Bronn Stone, on 13 June 2011 - 01:19 AM, said:

SAG is an American organization and has no effect here.  Except that they recognize their British and European equivalents.  But there is no fixing it, without creating a labor crisis. Unionised/Unionized labor is a fixture in television production.  Go outside the union structure and you lose every actor in the show.  Unless they are willing to never work again after this job.  Plus you lose all of the trades, unless every cameraperson, lighting person, CG person (etc) is willing to never again work on a union project.

Damn, and yet low-income workers are almost never unionized.

[Jaric]

They didn't have to show the battle is full, but what they could of done was..  Tyrion " where is Rob Stark " then cut to scene [Robs army charges and breaks the siege at River run, and the Capturing of Jaime].  Or something like that..  I know its not LOTR, or Braveheart, and its a TV show, But I know a lot of fans, and non reader viewers who were excited to see some combat, more than one on one, or small 5 on 5 skirmishes.  But army vs army..  yes Tyrion's back story is important, and Shae is a whore I get it...  but does like 20 minutes of air time need to be spent in Tyrion's tent?  I doubt it..

And on a side note the main issue with this show is they are doing the book in ten episodes...  try reading the book in 10 chapters?  From a readers point of view you can fill in the blanks cause you know the story, but from a non reader point of view.. everyone I talk to is confused... and I tell them to go read the books, and it will make sence.  LoL.

[Winterfelled]

TamTam Rapley, on 13 June 2011 - 12:52 AM, said:

They didn't do a battle period. And condemning the condemners, way to take the high road. As a paying customer, I can complain all I want. If this was free, then yes I would have no grounds but it's not. So just live with it.

All that noise, and you don't address my point. What a surprise.

You wanted the show to do what the book did, and it didn't. That's the beginning and end of your complaint, and it is rooted in fanboy-ism and irrespective of the quality of the show itself. Therefore your complaints "as a paying customer" amount to nothing but petty, childish whining. The question was "How would you rate the show?" not "how closely did the show follow the book?" The battle might have lessened the quality of the show, for all we know, so to say that the show was somehow lacking without it is silly. So take some of your own advice and "Just live with it"

The show was fine without the battle. It left more time for what the series is really about--the characters.

Edited by Winterfelled, 13 June 2011 - 01:32 AM.

[Jaric]

malarky1231, on 13 June 2011 - 01:23 AM, said:

Terrible terrible. I was hoping for an epic battle at the Green Forks, but I only saw the aftermath. If there was thing I was looking forward to the most this season, it had to be this battle, and they cut it. Why spend money on pointless sex scenes and extra scenes not from the book? They could've used this money to depict the battle. I'm also disappointed how Grey Wind got no screen time, Roose Bolton and Karstark are absent. Where the hell is the Blackfish? They could've at least mentioned Karstark's sons getting cut down. That means Karstark is cut from the show, and his whole mutiny thing is absent from the 3rd book. I wouldn't be surprised if Bolton is cut out from the show, bc they could just get the Freys to mastermind the whole Red Wedding scene. I had such high hopes for this episode, and this last part of the series. Now i know better, lower expectations are needed to enjoy this show.

However I heard Martin will be writing the S2 episode about the Battle of Blackwater. So don't worry, there will be a battle eventually, a year from now. Next time, you can be sure not to be let down during the most crucial moment of the 2nd book.

Agreed! so agree

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Carldog, on 13 June 2011 - 01:25 AM, said:

Notice how the people who are critical of the show are getting bashed, like we don't know what the hell we're talking about. Let me guess, our minds "don't  understand compounds or molecular structures," right?
The fact is we all have standards and in this case we want battles and we want epic.  It's in the book, make it happen.

Its not meant as bashing, more as puzzlement. For TV, this show has been about as 'epic' as things get. I am truly confused as to what some of you were expecting.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Asarlai, on 13 June 2011 - 01:17 AM, said:

Spoiler

By which you mean the dragons will be like tiny jumping sharks?

I don't know why, but I just keep picturing it as looking like something from The Dark Crystal or Fragglerock. I don't know why. I really hope nothing is made from felt next episode.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Ser_not_appearing_yet, on 13 June 2011 - 01:31 AM, said:

Its not meant as bashing, more as puzzlement. For TV, this show has been about as 'epic' as things get. I am truly confused as to what some of you were expecting.

I agree. I want this show to last through the entire book series. If that means I don't get an epic movie type battle scene, I am okay with that, as long as there are some really well done smaller scenes throughout.

[TamTam Rapley]

Winterfelled, on 13 June 2011 - 01:30 AM, said:

All that noise, and you don't address my point. What a surprise.

You wanted the show to do what the book did, and it didn't. That's the beginning and end of your complaint, and it is rooted in fanboy-ism and irrespective of the quality of the show itself. Therefore your complaints "as a paying customer" amount to nothing but petty, childish whining. The question was "How would you rate the show?" not "how closely did the show follow the book?" The battle might have lessened the quality of the show, for all we know, so to say that the show was somehow lacking without it is silly. So take some of your own advice and "Just live with it"

The show was fine without the battle. It left more time for what the series is really about--the characters.

I've rated the show, if you cared enough to read the earlier pages you would see that. And yeah, the show is lacking without battles. We have 8 episodes of build up for a battle between Starks and Lannisters. Then it happens off-camera. Is that not a legitimate enough gripe?