[BOOK SPOILERS] Ep 09 Discussion Part 2
Posted 13 June 2011 - 03:23 PM
Posted 13 June 2011 - 03:39 PM
Posted 13 June 2011 - 03:43 PM
Episode 8 had no breasts, but it had a long and heavy manhood.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 03:43 PM
Posted 13 June 2011 - 03:50 PM
Edited by Morrigan, 13 June 2011 - 03:56 PM.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:15 PM
But anyways. Pureism or not, they changed a character. A main character who affects the plot. This isnt the will-gered switch they pulled at the begining that didnt matter. I dont care when they change details, or when they bring Ros into the story even if she has no purpose in the book. But changing Shae all around because they liked the actor is stupid. They could have changed somethings, but to change the whole character is dumb IMO. Thats how I feel
Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:20 PM
The lack of battle scenes was at first a surprise, but then I realized that what is primary in this story isn't the battles themselves, but the results of those battles, just as in RL: who wins, who loses, who cares, literally.
The battle with Jorah and the Blood Rider made up for any lost excitement, a lesson in the merit of different fighting techniques.
And, in retrospect, I was very pleased to find more excellent character scenes, some added that were an improvement over what could have been used from the books, i.e. Tyrion's back story.
Walder Frey is perfectly insufferable, worth his weight in offal. Just loved him!
Overall, I was riveted and wrung out from this episode, more so than with any of the other excellent eps, more so than I expected to be from Ned's death. After my third viewing, I still had tears streaming down my face at the incredible end.
I loved the way Ned searched for his girls in the throng, and finding that small figure looking out of place between the legs of the statue, tried to take care of Arya with his last desperate word to Yoren. It was a nifty twist on the book, well written IMHO. One of the best departures from the source material, one of the most poignant moments in a heartbreaking scene.
Shae is a wonder. She is a gorgeous, independent whore (an oxymoron?) with more to her in this telling than in the books. I never liked the unctuous, fawning Shae from the book. Always pitied Tyrion for his gullibility to her pander. But I will watch fascinated by this interesting, intelligent, many-faceted woman who brooks no doubt as to why any man would fall victim to her wiles and will. This Shae appears to be an arresting diversion from the whore in the book. I am already sorry for her greedy betrayal.
I missed the wolves, and I miss Mormont's raven. But I understand that animals can wreck havoc on filming, especially this closely planned production with so many characters, so many locations and sets, and the brutal Irish weather to confound it all. Under the circumstances, with everything D&D had to contend with, this is a champion production, a phenomenal success! And this episode just adds to that edification.
So I gush my appreciation to HBO, D&D, and of course to my idol, Mr. Martin for these delights. They add so much to my little life.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:31 PM
Also: no Tower of Joy? What the hay, D&D? I know you're in the know, and will continue to tease us about it like GRRM does.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:35 PM
Tyrion left out the last part about Tysha. Wonder if it'll come up again sometime.
My baby Stark girls The last episode can't come soon enough.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:37 PM
Minor nitpicks yes, the missing battles, lack of details about Robb's movements and how he captured Jaime, a bizarre change of character for Shae and I don't know what the fuck Rodrik Cassell is doing with the army when he should be at Winterfell.
But for once I don't care because everything else was just so brilliant. Dany's scenes were great, Maester Aemon finally sounded like Maester Aemon, Ned shouting "Baelor" to Yoren was a great addition and that final scene was every bit as moving and emotional as it needed to be.
They did it, they really fucking did it. Kudos to HBO and everyone involved for pulling this off. Thank you.
I just hope Larry Williams recovers before next week, man he was so gutted. I imagine there are thousands of others n00bs out there feeling the same way and now I go to feast on their tears because we've all been there before. Oh Ned.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:37 PM
I just now caught what Ned said to Yoren, and suddenly the title of the episode makes a lot more sense.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:47 PM
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:08 PM
I meant what I wrote: Tyrion doesn't pay his GOLD for Tysha.
AGOT, Page 458
"Lord Tywin had me go last," he said in a quiet voice. "And he gave me a gold coin to pay her, because I was a Lannister, and worth more."
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:12 PM
Arya killing a pigeon.
Ummm, I mean, Ned's execution. Yeah. In seriousness, that scene was incredible. It was a bit confusing as to who Yoren was (for non-readers), given that we hadn't seen him in several episodes, and then only for a few minutes here and there. But that little addition of "Baelor" was perfect, and made a ton of sense. And then Arya standing there with her face buried in Yoren's mail shirt as her father is beheaded...I'm almost tearing up just writing about it.
- Bronn is awesome
- The Dothraki scenes were very good.
- I was finally sold on the Aemon's portrayal. His speech to Jon was fantastic.
- Jorah is great, but slightly over-acted.
To address some common gripes:
- The Green Fork. I'm okay with Tyrion being unconscious the whole battle. His fighting ability in the books strained believability at times. I thought this adaptation was fine, and I didn't miss poorly done CGI or cheaply done extra work to wedge a battle scene into an already strained budget.
- The Whispering Wood. This I thought could have been done a bit better. I think people have a legitimate beef with the way Jaime has been portrayed. There isn't a sense of his swordsmanship, and we may never get it now. Plus it was a bit confusing to see him simply dumped on the ground after they rode back up the hill. We also didn't get any lead-up to the battle. As I said above, I'm okay with them cutting out large scale battle scenes, but I wanted SOMETHING else to convey the tension of this event. This was my only real problem with the episode, and I didn’t even notice it at the time. Which is a testament to the power of both Robb and Catelyn on screen. They were just good earlier in the season, but the last two episodes they’ve both been fantastic. Robb especially.
- No Tower of Joy. To be honest, I didn't even know it was CALLED the Tower of Joy until I started reading comments here. And even then I had no idea what people were talking about until I re-read the series recently. GRRM obviously has a reason for it, but that reason isn't remotely clear at this point. Viewers would be completely lost. I have faith that they'll figure out how to move the plot forward by either including this later or by replacing it with something else. I just don't think they felt that ToJ would make sense in that context, and I have to agree with them.
- Changes to Shae. I don't care. She was a whore in the books whose only purposes were to create a "love interest" for Tyrion and then to betray him later. There isn't anything to suggest that they couldn't accomplish that with this version of Shae. Give her a chance.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:12 PM
A part of me wanted Yoren not to stop Arya, had she intefered, would they really murder a 10 years old at the presence of the crowd? Or would that have given them enough time to knock some sense into their boy king?
And Hell, Rob. He's growing on me in a way he never did in the book, thank god the red wedding is two seasons away.
Great episode, didn't mind the drinking game, the only thing I didn't care for was Dany's scenes - you don't really get the sense of how she was betrayed by Mirri, you kinda feel like she should have known what she meant.
And Jorah, you idiot! Why take her into the tent?!
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:28 PM
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:34 PM
I'm not saying she is.
but if everything she said was truth in the episode, then they are very similar. she says she noble born. she wanted a different life, i say that cause she didn't make tyrion drink until he said she was low born. She got very angry when he insulted her parents and threatened to cut out his eyes.
now Ross is playing the part of traditional Shae, and the reason she was added; they needed another whore, it's simple and it's not for more sex. the sex allows for characters to give exposition that they normally wouldnt tell anyone else. like Little finger did to Ross.
So who is NEW SHAE going to be?
my point with comparing her to a future Arya is simple, could she be a faceless man spy???
just a thought. we can allways replace the latter Shae scenes at KL with ROSS
Edited by laughing tree knight, 13 June 2011 - 05:37 PM.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:38 PM
Yeah, but at least MMD had a much much more justifiable reason for killing Drogo than Joffrey had for killing Ned. or hopefully he sees "he killed/enslaved my entire village and almost raped all of us" as a better reason for killing someone than "I'm a capricious little shit who likes to kill people because it makes me feel good". Maybe he'll stay on for the next season.
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:51 PM
Posted 13 June 2011 - 06:07 PM
I guess they could make both Duncan and Jaehaerys II older brothers of Aerys II, if the Summerhall thing is going to become as important that they have to address it in the series in a future season. But still, it feels so wrong to imagine Aerys as a son of Egg.
And I really start to hate this tendency of cutting of bits and details which could have been easily stayed in
- lines of the oath of the Night's Watch
- the full Drogo-Dany-deflowering-scene
- the Rhoynar in the styling of the King
- the end of the Tysha story
The Kekilli-Shae is working really well in my opinion. You can easily fall in love with this woman. And the way they established Tyrion's character with the whole Ros thing, it has to be an exceptional woman he falls in love, as he obviously has a lot of experience with beautiful whores. And, more importantly, he has not such a huge issue with his ugliness in the series, because Peter Dinklage is only a dwarf, not ugly.
So they have to play the Tyrion-Shae-story a little bit differently, I think, and I really see the potential for greater tragedy here than is in the books.
I can see this Shae growing fond of Tyrion, I can even see her falling in love with him as well, and this would make way for real conflict - when Tyrion's wants to send her to the kitchens, and makes her Lolly's maid, and for great drama in the end when she is really forced to accuse him during the trial, and is forced to share the bed with Tywin afterwards.
Leaving out the ending of the Tysha story is just stupid. I don't see a reason why they would do this. The end is the real perverse cruelty, and the climax of this story.