71 replies to this topic

[Xenophon]

SerFelixCulpa, on 16 June 2011 - 02:13 PM, said:

I feel unable to consider Howland Reed until we know a bit more about him, what precisely he knows, what he's doing, and how he lets everyone know.

Yeah, I suspect Howland Reed is very important for one or two secrets (TOJ, Bran), and relatively unimportant otherwise.  His secrets may be the most important and explosive, but I seriously doubt that he's meddling everywhere like LF or Varys.

[Clariana]

Joffrey? Sent the Starks on collision course with the Lannisters.  He alone took the Decision to execute Ned which started the war. His murder leads to the accusation against Tyrion which in turn leads Tyrion to murder Tywin.

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

Dolorous Edd, for bringing joy to a bleak story.

[SerFelixCulpa]

I suppose I should throw Mance Rayder in here as well, arguably the most self-created important man in the series with the possible exception of Littlefinger.  (And he was born Lord Baelish at least.)

[Été]

If we're saying Robert, what about Rhaegar? His actions sparked Robert's Rebellion, and despite Aerys' crimes he was able to rally people behind the Targs. Without Rhaegar, I have no idea if Dany would find as much support in Westeros. Also, his effect on central characters like Cersei and Barristan.

[Lasair]

Definitely not Littlefinger. He hasn't a clue about what's happening across the Narrow Sea OR the Wall which I think disqualifies him. His focus is quite narrow. Oh, and the Tyrell marriage would have happened without him, which means that Joffrey's death would have happened without him.

Varys or Stannis. Especially if Tyrion ends up being the one who trains the dragons, since he wouldn't have escaped without Varys.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Lasair, on 16 June 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

Definitely not Littlefinger. He hasn't a clue about what's happening across the Narrow Sea OR the Wall which I think disqualifies him. His focus is quite narrow. Oh, and the Tyrell marriage would have happened without him, which means that Joffrey's death would have happened without him.

Varys or Stannis. Especially if Tyrion ends up being the one who trains the dragons, since he wouldn't have escaped without Varys.

Actually Lasair (and unfortunately I do not have my copy of AFfC with me at the moment or I'd find it, I'll look and maybe add a reference later), LF says something talking to Sansa at one point that makes me think he is very much aware of developments across the Narrow Sea.  Just how seriously he takes them and what that might mean...we do not know yet.

[Lasair]

SerFelixCulpa, on 16 June 2011 - 03:36 PM, said:

Actually Lasair (and unfortunately I do not have my copy of AFfC with me at the moment or I'd find it, I'll look and maybe add a reference later), LF says something talking to Sansa at one point that makes me think he is very much aware of developments across the Narrow Sea.  Just how seriously he takes them and what that might mean...we do not know yet.

Mea culpa, Ser Felix Culpa.  

[chris.t.]

Rhaegar.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

You can't disqualify Melisandre just because she will have a POV in book 5.  Because who knows, LF might get a POV in book 7.

You can only go by who doesn't have a POV as of book 4.

So I'd nominate her.

Also, Archmaester Marwyn.

[apt54]

SerFelixCulpa, on 16 June 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

I have to technically disqualify Melisandre because we will apparently be seeing her POV in the very near future, otherwise we would have a top 5 contender no question.

A couple of related questions then: (1) do you think GRRM is having/had a lot of trouble with speed precisely because it gets so hard to write without a lot of very important POVs?

(2) Who'd like to offer a definition of 'important' for our purposes?  I'll start, "Character with the most intentional sway over the affairs of Westeros/Essos, regardless of whether the person is perceived as important (though that can be considered)."

Thanks for the heads up about Melisandre, I was not aware that Martin gave her POV chapters.

Edited by apt54, 16 June 2011 - 04:41 PM.

[taurunum dire cat]

Seams to be Littlefinger but with GRRM,it could be Moon Boy by the end of book seven

[Bee]

I'm surprised no one has said Walder Frey/ The Westerlings (Sybell and Jeyne).  Jeyne and Walder Frey are pretty much the reason for the Red Wedding and the resulting UnCat and dead Robb.
Also Lyanna Stark was pretty much the character that started Robert's rebellion.  
And come one, how  could we forget Hodor? Bran's character would pretty much be useless without Hodor to carry him around.

[Shienberg]

Mirri Maz Durr

This is only because I believe she intentionaly brought Dany's dragons to life. Only death pays for life. Three deaths, Drogo, the baby and herself for the lives of the three dragons.
The Dragons will be the most scale tipping factor in the end so if she did intentionally bring them to life with blood magic she would have a major influence on the final outcome.

[metr0man]

^ on a semi-side note, does anyone know if Mirri Maz Durr is the same "Magi" that told Cersei about her prophecy?

[El Pinko Grande]

No votes for Doran Martell? Once all is said and done, I'm willing to bet that his covert support of the Targaryens will seem to be more meaningful than LF's machinations. Robert's reign turning into a complete catastrophe leading to civil war may very well have happened without LF- it just would have happened differently. From the perspective of Westerosi history, LF may end up being perceived as kind of a minor figure.

[Kosciuszko]

Varys and Magister Illyrio. Perhaps I'm just really curious as to Varys' whereabouts after Storm.

ETA: Also, the the Three-Eyed Crow.

Edited by Kosciuszko, 20 June 2011 - 05:41 PM.

[Ellroy]

Littlefinger, Varys and Tywin.

[Easy]

Old Nan. I think she's Bloodraven.

Lasair, on 16 June 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

Definitely not Littlefinger. He hasn't a clue about what's happening across the Narrow Sea OR the Wall which I think disqualifies him. His focus is quite narrow. Oh, and the Tyrell marriage would have happened without him, which means that Joffrey's death would have happened without him.

Varys or Stannis. Especially if Tyrion ends up being the one who trains the dragons, since he wouldn't have escaped without Varys.

I mostly agree with this. He may be aware of events across the Narrow Sea but Littlefinger's machination's are relatively narrow in scope.

Compared to Varys who is an intercontinental schemer.

[Completely Headless Ned]

What about Lysa? Since she was in on it with LF.