71 replies to this topic

[Westercat]

I think that Barristan Selmy should be brought into consideration.  He is probably the most respected living knight.  Since he was a kingsguard member for 40 years he has a lot of insight and information about the past wars/events and the Targ family.  Now he is commander of Dany's Queensguard and one of her top advisors.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Westercat, on 21 June 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

I think that Barristan Selmy should be brought into consideration.  He is probably the most respected living knight.  Since he was a kingsguard member for 40 years he has a lot of insight and information about the past wars/events and the Targ family.  Now he is commander of Dany's Queensguard and one of her top advisors.

Barristan unfortunately also has to be ruled out on technicality since we will apparently get his POV in ADwD.

The Scabbard Of the Morning, on 16 June 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

You can't disqualify Melisandre just because she will have a POV in book 5.  Because who knows, LF might get a POV in book 7.

You can only go by who doesn't have a POV as of book 4.

So I'd nominate her.

Also, Archmaester Marwyn.

I can and did. Obviously, anyone who isn't actually known to be dead (and even that is somewhat reversible in GRRMland) could have a POV chapter by the end, at which point they are out of contention for purposes of the instant inquiry.  But since we know that Melisandre and Barristan both become POV characters in the next book, they just don't count.

El Pinko Grande, on 20 June 2011 - 05:22 PM, said:

No votes for Doran Martell?

Good one, Doran is an excellent possibility.

[Kaitscralt]

Stannis and Littlefinger are a tie for me.

Edited by Kaitscralt, 21 June 2011 - 12:30 PM.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Lasair, on 16 June 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

Definitely not Littlefinger. He hasn't a clue about what's happening across the Narrow Sea OR the Wall which I think disqualifies him.

I said a little while back that I'd try to find the quote that led me to believe Littlefinger is aware of what's going on across the Narrow Sea.  I specifically found it on page 624 of the hardcover first edition of AFfC.  Specifically, in mentioning he wished he had a few more years "to plant some seeds and allow some fruits to ripen" Littlefinger has the following exchange with Sansa:

Quote

"What little peace and order the five kings left us will not long survive the three queens, I fear."
"Three queens?" She did not understand.
Nor did Petyr choose to explain.

Now, I took this to mean that LF is referring to Cersei, Margaery, and Daenerys as the three queens.  Though it could in truth refer to Cersei, Margaery, and Myrcella.  However, Myrcella has not been crowned nor is there any reason to believe LF knows this is a possibility.  He might know it, but it seems just as possible he is aware Dany is running around as a queen-in-fact in Essos.  Certainly he heard the small council reports about Dany, he is aware of her existence.  Plus, LF was Master of the Coin: he is therefore surely aware of and very knowledgeable about the extensive loans the Crown took from the Iron Bank of Braavos.  LF must have sources of information across the Narrow Sea by virtue of this alone, and I doubt he's so stupid as to not keep tabs on what the news is from that direction....particularly as regards a Targaryen still running around over there who could complicate whatever his ambitions are.

Remember too that chronologically the exchange I quote above takes place toward the end of AFfC...it is in fact the last Sansa chapter.  Therefore, we can assume Dany has been running around doing a whole lot of whatever she will be doing in ADwD prior to and up to that point. Plenty of time for information (at the very least) about Dany's conquest of Slaver's Bay to reach him...and half the world for that matter.

LF is as aware as anyone in Westeros (with the possible exception of Varys) about what's going on with Dany.  IMO.

[MinotaurWarrior]

I'm just wondering, for all those that didn't include Illyrio on your lists, what are your reasons?

[Kaitscralt]

MinotaurWarrior, on 21 June 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

I'm just wondering, for all those that didn't include Illyrio on your lists, what are your reasons?

Easy. Varys does all of the work, so if their plot is something you'd consider the most important non-POV, then Varys should be number one.

I don't consider either of them number one though.

[MinotaurWarrior]

A fair response.

[SerFelixCulpa]

MinotaurWarrior, on 21 June 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

I'm just wondering, for all those that didn't include Illyrio on your lists, what are your reasons?

I agree with Kaitscralt.  I consider Varys and Illyrio to be essentially the 'same' person for purposes of plotting.  If reason comes to believe their interests or outlooks  vary....then this would need reconsideration.

Edited by SerFelixCulpa, 22 June 2011 - 08:39 AM.

[King_In_The_North]

No mention of Hodor?

[SerFelixCulpa]

King_In_The_North, on 22 June 2011 - 08:40 AM, said:

No mention of Hodor?

Hodor.  

[The Red Crow]

I'm going to sneak in Aegon now, since his sudden existance and future plans could have a big impact now.


My other vote goes to Rhaegar. And Howland Reed.

[Ravenhair]

Varys is the most important because I believe he is the major plotter.

Bloodraven might be second, tying with Littlefinger.

Edited by Ravenhair, 26 April 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[Apple Martini]

Probably Varys, Bloodraven and Littlefinger on the top tier, with Stannis, "Aegon," the Tyrells, the Boltons and maybe Randyll Tarly on the next rung.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

'Important' is tough to gauge and is very subjective. So I might as well add a bit more subjective judgement on top of this and say that Stannis Baratheon is not only the most important non-POV, but also the best all-around non-POV character GRRM has created.

[Lyanna Stark]

Apple Martini, on 26 April 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Probably Varys, Bloodraven and Littlefinger on the top tier, with Stannis, "Aegon," the Tyrells, the Boltons and maybe Randyll Tarly on the next rung.

Agreed, except maybe for Randyll Tarly (as much as I appreciate his harshness and fairness etc etc).

I'd definitely add Olenna Tyrell and the Hound to second tier since the first poisoned Joffrey and the second saves Arya and Sansa both from Certain Death.

[James Arryn]

Rhaegar.

At some point virtually every important question comes back to him. The rebellion, the PTWP, the 3 heads of the dragon, Jon's ID/TOJ, Harenhall, Jon Con/Aegon, etc.

In terms of alive, Varys, Bloordraven and LF are all at about the same level, Stannis next, and Roose Bolton, Walder Frey, the QOT and Euron GJ a step or 3 behind them. Maybe Mel.

Edited by James Arryn, 26 April 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[Wyman's Man]

1) Varys
2) Littlefinger
3) Ilyrio
4) Stannis
5) Euron
6) Olenna Tyrell
7) Aegon
8) The Hound
9) Roose Bolton
10) Wyman Manderly

[Davos55]

Obvious ones are Varys, Littlefinger, Illyrio, and the King characters (Robert, Joffrey, Robb, Stannis, Mance Rayder, Tommen?)

Others: The Boltons, Balon Greyjoy (without him the meltdown in the North could have been avoided), the Reeds (how else would Bran decide and succesfully make it north), Jeor Mormont, Jorah Mormont (Dany would be dead without him), Tywin, and the Cleganes

My darkhorse favorites: Patchface, Wun Wun, Hot Pie, Septon Meribald, recurring black tomcat, Nymeria, and Casso King of Seals

[chuck norris 42]

I think littlefinger is will be  more important than Reed, Varys or the leader of the Others because it would be dramatic to see him rise and fall, We know that he wants things so it is more dramatic for him to lose them.

As for historical characters I think  Aegon the unworthy is supposed to be the cause of many things.

[Thunderfist]

Tormund Giantsbane!