474 replies to this topic

[Lord O' Bones]

I have to say, I'm pretty underwhelmed by this thread. The constant pettiness, pedantry and lack of perspective about television and it's majority audience or insight in general seems out of character.

I can't believe no one has mentioned how annoying overcritical complaining is yet. I mean, I haven't read the thread or anything, but still...

I'm disappointed that they didn't show Dolorous Ed being dolorous. This pretty much defines the entire Night's Watch's character. They couldn't lose 20 seconds of Mormont uselessly blah-blahing about what's going on north of the Wall to give us some Dolorous Ed?

Also, why is no one upset that Joffrey is being portrayed as having short hair? That was NOT in the books! I can't understand why they would change something so critical to his character and later developments. HBO really dropped the ball here.

AND WHERE ARE THE DIREWOLVES!? That used to be a staple of these threads, logical explanation be damned. It's not like it would have cost that much to have a few more whiny posts about direwolves.

And oh god Ros. There is so much fucking Ros in these threads I'd lose an eye to never have to see her in a thread again! No, I don't care if she had like 6 scenes in ten episodes. Enough is enough. As a heterosexual male I can honestly tell you that I literally can't look at tits anymore without puking my ass off through my face in a clown car. Literally.

*sigh*

I'll keep reading, for now.

But if any typos happen, ever

I WILL NEVER READ THESE THREADS AGAIN!

[Xanrn]

Why has all the boldness gone.

First Tywin has a full set of hair.

Second Dany hair survives her ritual, baahhhhh.

Also I got to say it made Dany look even more like she knowingly performed a Life for Life spell to get her dragons.

Poor Maegi woman made to look evil when she was only killing baby Hitler and getting some revenge, everybody else in the series after revenge isn't made to look evil.

[Bronn Stone]

Loved two bits from interviews today that shed a lot of light on the decisions to downplay the direwolves and large mounted battles.

In her interview with Ran and Linda, Natalia Tena mentioned that the small scene in the crypts took far more takes than one would normally expect because instead of growling at her, the dog portraying Shaggydog kept coming up and licking her face.

And in another interview, one of the D&D pair mentioned that they've learned that just adding a horse to a scene doubles the time spent making the shot correct.  This of course all but doubles the expense involved as well.  Animals and children are the bane of the serious actor.  GoT has both in abundance.

[Greywolf2375]

Bronn Stone, on 20 June 2011 - 08:38 PM, said:

Loved two bits from interviews today that shed a lot of light on the decisions to downplay the direwolves and large mounted battles.

In her interview with Ran and Linda, Natalia Tena mentioned that the small scene in the crypts took far more takes than one would normally expect because instead of growling at her, the dog portraying Shaggydog kept coming up and licking her face.

And in another interview, one of the D&D pair mentioned that they've learned that just adding a horse to a scene doubles the time spent making the shot correct.  This of course all but doubles the expense involved as well.  Animals and children are the bane of the serious actor.  GoT has both in abundance.

May not be able to watch the crypt scene again knowing that.  "yeah, Shaggy is badass...right up until he rolls over with his feet in the air asking for belly scratches".

[Triskele]

Eponine, on 20 June 2011 - 01:40 PM, said:

Now that the whole season is over:

Characters/casting I loved (or loved to hate): Ned, Sansa, Tywin, Jaime, Lysa, Joffrey, Robert, Varys, Viserys, Jorah, Sam

Characters/casting I liked (a lot): Catelyn, Arya, Bran, Theon, Maester Luwin, Greatjon and other Northmen, Syrio, Jory, Septa Mordane, Tyrion, Gregor, Mord, Walder Frey, the Hound, Littlefinger, Barriston, Pycelle, Beric, Khal Drogo, Rakharo, Doreah, Mormont, Jon, Benjen, Alliser Thorne, Yoren, Gendry

Characters/casting that were alright: Robb, Rickon, Hodor, Ser Rodrik, Cersei, Kevan, Lancel, Robin Arryn, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, Ros, Dany, Illyrio, Maester Aemon, Pyp and Grenn

Characters/casting that I hated: Shae, Renly, Loras, MMD, Osha

OK, I like this post as a meta-analysis at the end.  You and I agree on quite a bit.  Renly and Loras are the two biggest disappointments to me.  Not that the actors have sucked, but they just do not fit the book versions for me.  

My biggest disagreement with you might be Cercei (and I'm not sure if you mentioned her twice to make a point, or if you just goofed).  I think Heady is doing an awesome job.  I'd have her in my top tier.  My other bid disagreement w/ you is that I think TV Robb is fucking awesome.  Other than those two, we are pretty much in line (I might put LF in the top tier, but it's close).  

I have to put Syrio in my top tier.  I know that he doesn't fit some aspects of the book description, but the guy just owns the camera.  

OK, so not just at Ep but at everyone:  As I mentioned earlier, I've only read books 2 and 3 one time each.  Why is Shae getting so much hate?  I guess I don't remember the specifics of the book character well enough to understand why.  Again, I just don't remember the books well enough from one read, so any feedback would be appreciated.

[sweetrobin]

What I have not seen anyone else point out is that this episode has a beautiful point of symmetry with the first episode. With the first epsiode, I thought it was strange that when the Others killed the wildlings, they had made a strange looking symbol from the bodies, something that was not outlined in the book. When Drogo was on the pyre in episode ten, the formation of the kindling recalled that scene to me. To me, this was a nice balance, not just between the beginning and the end of the first season, but as the awakening of the Others (Ice) and the awakening of Dragons (Fire).

Unrelated, did anyone notice Shae's ring? It looks a lot like an eye, stylistically quite a bit like Mirri's necklace. Interesting.

[kairparavel]

Quote

Best-selling fantasy author George R. R. Martin tried to make Game of Thrones – and the three books that follow it in his Song of Ice and Fire  series — “unfilmable.” Says the writer: “I had worked in Hollywood  myself for about 10 years, from the late ’80s to the ’90s. I’d been on  the staff of The Twilight Zone and Beauty and the Beast.  All of my first drafts tended to be too big or too expensive. I always  hated the process of having to cut.” When he took up novel-writing  afterward, he recalls: “I said, ‘I’m sick of this, I’m going to write  something that’s as big as I want it to be, and it’s going to have a  cast of characters that go into the thousands, and I’m going to have  huge castles, and battles, and dragons.

    http://insidetv.ew.c...rge-r-r-martin/

Quote

In the 1990s, George R.R. Martinwas just another fantasy author with a few awards, novels and television episodes to his credit. Frustrated at hearing that his scripts were too elaborate to be  filmed, Martin decided to write novels that were completely unfilmable.He imagined a sprawling political saga, set in a medieval fantasy  kingdom that runs on deceit, plunder, sex and beheadings. While the high  lords play their game of thrones, they are ignoring a greater threat --  undead monsters of the North who are growing restless and moving toward  the cities in the south.

   http://www.cleveland...ilm_george.html

Quote

"Did  we tell you the story about [GRRM’s experience as a TV writer on], I  think it was “The New Twilight Zone”? He had written a scene with  knights battling on horses at Stonehenge, and the director came to him  and said, 'You can have the horses or you can have Stongehenge.' That's  how we frame things: Sorry, we wish we could do all this, but we have to  make a horse/Stonehenge choice."

David Benioff - Show Runner - Game of Thrones

   Bronn Stone's sig


So, there it is folks. We never, ever stood a chance of having one big happy family on this, when the guy who created did it in such a way as to never be able to capture it on film. And every fucking week we've had a horses/Stonehenge choice made on some level. Some minor. Some major.

Why was Tyrion reduced to comedic fodder in battle? Why was the red comet never shown? Why did Robert want to joust in the tournament instead of melee? Why is The Hound so emo? Why does Loras look like he hasn't showered in three months? Why can't they get Lancel some nice hair? Why does a story about battles and war show none of it? Why are the direwolves suddenly not important to the Stark children?

Why was a man, so frustrated by Hollywood and the creative decisions made, ok with having his life's work picked apart and put back together to fit television, when it wasn't his original vision, seeing as his original vision couldn't be filmed. Why not just say "Sorry, I don't want to have to make choices"?

Have some of the nitpicks been over the top? (Ghost barks! Oh noes!) yes. But not all of them. Most have been reasonable gripes from reasonable people who enjoy and love this series and each had an idea of how it would go. For many of us it hasn't gone that way. We get to talk about it as much as the people who love love love everything about it. And it's for the the reasons above - this shouldn't be on television. It's painfully obvious. In order to do more with budget, no battles. In order to get more back story out there (which I admit is difficult in a tale with multi POV) without constant voice overs, we get the same invented whore, over and over again.

Some has been fantastic - King of the North moved me. Eddard's death made me cry all three times I watched it. I think the child actors have been fantastic. And I hope it gets better, but I don't think it will. There's too much to tell, with too little time and budget to do it right. And most of us, we want horses and Stonehenge every episode. Everyone should have wanted both, or none at all.

[Eponine]

Triskele, on 20 June 2011 - 08:49 PM, said:

Why is Shae getting so much hate?  I guess I don't remember the specifics of the book character well enough to understand why.  

To summarize several pages of threads - many people think that the exotic, mysterious and complex aspect is wrong for the character and the change in her character changes Tyrion's motivations for (stupidly in both cases) falling in love with her, which changes the kind of person that Tyrion is. Those who like her generally think either that she's enough of a minor character that the changes are essentially unimportant, or think that she's gives Tyrion's attraction a more realistic focus, since a smart person like Tyrion might prefer a smart companion.

(Mostly I just find her annoying on a gut level. I could never listen to her blather at me all day, and since I like Tyrion so much and otherwise want to spend a lot of screen time with him, they're the TV equivalent of the good friend with the really annoying girlfriend).

Edited by Eponine, 20 June 2011 - 09:06 PM.

[Mad Sweeney]

Triskele, on 20 June 2011 - 08:49 PM, said:

OK, I like this post as a meta-analysis at the end.  You and I agree on quite a bit.  Renly and Loras are the two biggest disappointments to me.  Not that the actors have sucked, but they just do not fit the book versions for me.  

My biggest disagreement with you might be Cercei (and I'm not sure if you mentioned her twice to make a point, or if you just goofed).  I think Heady is doing an awesome job.  I'd have her in my top tier.  My other bid disagreement w/ you is that I think TV Robb is fucking awesome.  Other than those two, we are pretty much in line (I might put LF in the top tier, but it's close).  

I have to put Syrio in my top tier.  I know that he doesn't fit some aspects of the book description, but the guy just owns the camera.  

OK, so not just at Ep but at everyone:  As I mentioned earlier, I've only read books 2 and 3 one time each.  Why is Shae getting so much hate?  I guess I don't remember the specifics of the book character well enough to understand why.  Again, I just don't remember the books well enough from one read, so any feedback would be appreciated.

Like being good with a sword and having a believable (not comically bad) accent?  Yeah, he differs from the book a bit.  Add in being a chubby Kenny Powers lookalike and you've got THE most disappointing character from the books.  Hopefully a different actor plays Jaqen.  

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know most of you loved him.  Blah blah blah.  He hit a few lines pretty well but any time he was in motion he was a liability.  Watch his last scene again, tell me how he killed/disabled the Lannister he grabs by the back of the neck and puts his WOODEN sword up to his neck.  Might've given him a nasty papercut or sliver, but that was beyond ridiculous.  And I know, that isn't the bad actor's fault, but damn it was awful.

[Mad Sweeney]

Triskele, on 20 June 2011 - 08:49 PM, said:

OK, I like this post as a meta-analysis at the end.  You and I agree on quite a bit.  Renly and Loras are the two biggest disappointments to me.  Not that the actors have sucked, but they just do not fit the book versions for me.  

My biggest disagreement with you might be Cercei (and I'm not sure if you mentioned her twice to make a point, or if you just goofed).  I think Heady is doing an awesome job.  I'd have her in my top tier.  My other bid disagreement w/ you is that I think TV Robb is fucking awesome.  Other than those two, we are pretty much in line (I might put LF in the top tier, but it's close).  

I have to put Syrio in my top tier.  I know that he doesn't fit some aspects of the book description, but the guy just owns the camera.  

OK, so not just at Ep but at everyone:  As I mentioned earlier, I've only read books 2 and 3 one time each.  Why is Shae getting so much hate?  I guess I don't remember the specifics of the book character well enough to understand why.  Again, I just don't remember the books well enough from one read, so any feedback would be appreciated.

BECAUSE SHE'S DIFFERENT THAN THE BOOK !!11!!!1!  ZOMFG!!111!1

[Tears of Lys]

kairparavel, on 20 June 2011 - 08:55 PM, said:

/snip awesome post (you can read it upthread )

Great way to put it.  I agree with most.  I'm still enjoying it.  If people can get over the fact that it's NOT the book(s), then they'll take it for what it is, enjoy it, and have fun.

[Eponine]

Uh, Mad Sweeney - can you not accept that people not liking Shae is pretty much like you not liking Syrio? You think he's not good with a sword and I think she's not good at acting like a whore (whether she's high born or exotic or whatever, she's fucking for money). You think his accent is comical, and I think her accent is grating. You don't think his appearance is right and I don't think her appearance is right. Where's the difference that makes your analysis of Syrio reasonable and other people's analysis of Shae ZOMFG stupid?

[Mudguard]

Triskele, on 20 June 2011 - 08:49 PM, said:

OK, so not just at Ep but at everyone:  As I mentioned earlier, I've only read books 2 and 3 one time each.  Why is Shae getting so much hate?  I guess I don't remember the specifics of the book character well enough to understand why.  Again, I just don't remember the books well enough from one read, so any feedback would be appreciated.

Yeah, I'm with you in that I don't have a big problem with TV Shae.  To me, Shae wasn't that important to the story until she ends up testifying against Tyrion, leading him to murder her.  If those parts are eventually shown (assuming the TV series goes that long), it doesn't bother me that her personality has changed.  It's not that important to me what type of woman Tyrion prefers.  What matters is that they show her betrayal (from his point of view) and his response.  If they changed those things though, I would have a problem with it.

[Mad Sweeney]

Eponine, on 20 June 2011 - 09:12 PM, said:

Uh, Mad Sweeney - can you not accept that people not liking Shae is pretty much like you not liking Syrio? You think he's not good with a sword and I think she's not good at acting like a whore (whether she's high born or exotic or whatever, she's fucking for money). You think his accent is comical, and I think her accent is grating. You don't think his appearance is right and I don't think her appearance is right. Where's the difference that makes your analysis of Syrio reasonable and other people's analysis of Shae ZOMFG stupid?

First off, I KNOW he's no good with a sword.  

I don't like him for technical reasons, not because he's not what I pictured or he's not how he was in the book, or they spent 20 seconds too long on him in epsiode 6.  I wouldn't care if he was 19 years old with hair down to his ass if he could swing a sword like he knew what he was doing.  My only care for his appearance is that it doesn't capture the 'essence' of Syrio, that is, a badass swordsman.  Shae only needs to appear as a whore to capture her essence.  Done.  Her purpose and storyline isn't clear yet so all the doom and gloomers are wailing about something they don't know about yet, because both her and Tyrion are different than book T and S.  Whereas my complaint about Syrio is known now.  He can't sword fight for shit and his accent is stupid.  

I'm not sure I've illustrated the difference, but I've also not gone on and on about how this and this is RUINED because of this whore or that one.  Technical vs ideals is what it boils down to.

[Tyrion Thr Terrible]

As much as everyone here (me included) has gotten nit picky about the things they were looking forward to seeing but didn't, and those seeing things that weren't in the book, I have to say, overall this first season was spot on when it comes to adaptation. Are there any among us here 100% satisfied with the final product? No, but I believe the majority of us would agree everyone over there at HBO achieved an amazing feat by pulling it off! With that said I have a strong feeling that come half-way through season 2 the majority will be singing a different tune. The challenge for HBO now is to keep the non-reading audience from getting lost in the story considering so many elements are simultaneously happening, and in doing so I believe we are going to be seeing more and more of a hybridization bouncing around all 4 books. And you know what, I'm still going to be tuning each week as are each and everyone of you.... See you next year!

[Mudguard]

Tyrion Thr Terrible, on 20 June 2011 - 09:32 PM, said:

As much as everyone here (me included) has gotten nit picky about the things they were looking forward to seeing but didn't, and those seeing things that weren't in the book, I have to say, overall this first season was spot on when it comes to adaptation. Are there any among us here 100% satisfied with the final product? No, but I believe the majority of us would agree everyone over there at HBO achieved an amazing feat by pulling it off! With that said I have a strong feeling that come half-way through season 2 the majority will be singing a different tune. The challenge for HBO now is to keep the non-reading audience from getting lost in the story considering so many elements are simultaneously happening, and in doing so I believe we are going to be seeing more and more of a hybridization bouncing around all 4 books. And you know what, I'm still going to be tuning each week as are each and everyone of you.... See you next year!

Yeah, this is my sentiment too.  Thought they did a great job overall and am looking forward to season 2.  Sure, certain things bothered me.  Like the way the Others looked like albino ape men (actually they weren't even that white despite being nicknamed White Walkers!).  Does the way they look have any impact on the overall story?  Probably not.  Oh well.

[fitheach]

ZombieWife, on 20 June 2011 - 07:32 PM, said:

I'm in the pro-whores bandwagon.

I like Ros.  I do think her presences feels like a bit of a writing device, but in truth?  I think the actress is great.  I enjoyed her scenes with Theon, especially the goodbye scene.

I adore Shae.  I think they picked a really great actress.  I like her character.  I think she has wonderful chemistry with Tyrion (Dinklage).

I agree, I don't mind Roz per se (and the actress has been great)- it's how they've written her scenes... Too long and too much of the same (Yeah yeah, she's a whore so she's supposed to be naked- bla bla bla). The writers just haven't been very imaginative in how to work her character into the story. Next season I'd like to see where they're going with her as (probably) Varys' spy (with    her clothes on a little more) and less LF ass touch type scenes.
I have no problem with Shae.

Edited by fitheach, 20 June 2011 - 10:12 PM.

[wolverine]

Just adding that I was a little jarred that Dany's hair was not burned, but do not really care at all.  I mean, it is magic, right?  It actually makes more sense that no actual part of her burns rather than just her hair.

Edited by wolverine, 20 June 2011 - 10:38 PM.

[Lord Mord]

I am disappointed with pretty much all the griping and bitching.

But I'd also like to know who is this fellow supposed to have been who "really" dies in Storm, but who was shown dying this season.

As far as I can tell, it never happened.

[Mudguard]

Regarding some of the new exposition scenes, some worked for me, so didn't.  What worked - the bantering between LF and Varys was entertaining.  I like the rivalry they've set up between the two.  I don't recall them ever going head to head like this in the book, but I like the change.

What didn't work - the Ros/LF sexposition scene.  Found it bizarre for LF to be explaining things to Ros while he was giving them instructions on how to perform as whores.