danm_999, on 31 May 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:
The former slavers who leave the city do so with their wealth and head for Yunkai or the countryside. They don't swarm down to the docks.
Daenerys has not abolished property rights, so there's going to be little incentive for a vast amount of the elite to abandon Mereen to slavery in Qarth. These are the high value slaves who would rather live in a gilded cage than free in poverty.
PatrickStormborn, on 31 May 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:
The passage speaks for itself -- they are "well spoken" and "gently born". They are not former slaves. Note how no one in the quote says "sell themselves back into slavery", nor are they referred to as "former slaves". As far as I can tell, the passage suggests that Meereenese former slavers (not the wealthy Great Masters) were the ones who sold themselves into slavery, and not the ex-slaves.
There are social classes between Great Masters and mistreated slaves. Missandei could for example be considered well spoken, and free men with learning and skills like Xaro's merchant friend aren't Great Masters. Hell, putting aside Xaro's friend there are probably plenty of well read and spoken people that aren't Masters or slaves.For that matter,there are many types of slaves, like bedslaves born in servitude that could be considered gently born I guess. Xaro also pointed out that the wealthy merchant was forced to go out and dig ditches he did not want to dig, we're not sure if he was paid at all.
butterbumps!, on 31 May 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:
I don't disagree with calling the Game of Thrones vile, and I've actually never contested whether slavery ought to have been abolished or sympathize with the the slavers. I care about the slaver's economy for the simple reason that by replacing the slaving mode of production with something else will create stability, ensure that people are secure and fed, and that no one- former slave or slaver- will be tempted to sell themselves back into slavery.
I think I disagree with you to the extent that Dany's re-emergence in Westeros, especially in the capacity as Queen, will eradicate the game of thrones.
Honestly this. Plenty of people are reacting like Dany and going "RAR! RAR! Bad slavers! Fuck 'em" when we have no idea who exactly is being sold into slavery. I'm generally fine with people doing whatever the fuck they want with themselves but there's an exception here. When you're trying to eradicate such an ancient practice you would do well to not provide any incentives for it to continue, or create a situation where it exists in a slightly different skin. I love how she claims individual liberty here and says that no slave may sell another person into slavery. That's all well and good but what about people being born into slavery? The number might be very low due to the downtime (might be cheaper to just buy kids) but it could exist. So after all she did for the children she's creating a situation where the children can once again end up as slaves. I don't think Ghis is one of those cultures where the children of slaves are born free.
Monsieur LeDauphin Grumkin, on 31 May 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:
How good does a ruler have to be in the first place? The Hand is the one who does everything anyways. Dany just needs to sit her fat ass down on that throne looking as gorgeous as ever and she'll be be better then any of the Lannister kings. (Joff shooting the crossbows at people, Tommen handing over the Realm to flowers)
The Hand does not in fact do all of the work, in fact that king is supposed to sit in on meetings, the problem is that we've had two boy kings that didn't give a shit and Robert
. Also, Tommen didn't hand over anything, as a minor he had nothing to hand over, the deal was made long before he was king. On top of that, the Tyrells being in a more dominant position is not necessarily a bad thing for the realm. For Cersei maybe, but the realm is fine.
On top of that, a Hand that does everything would only prosper if the king doesn't want to get involved at all. Dany isn't the type of person to sit back and not get into the thick of things.
I think the whole economy is fucking disgusting. I think the rape, pillaging and abuse to children is horrible and I have no problem with Drogon burning the piece of shit contenint to ashes. Thankfully Dany has a gentler heart then me and I'm sure that she won't do that and mayhaps invest in... Zorses or something. The Dothraki must be tamed quickly, they won't stop selling slaves and even if there are no buyers they will still survive broke for at least one more generation.
*sigh* Point proven
And this is the problem, she needed to come up with some replacement industry and she didn't. Barbarism or no barbarism, there needs to be a reason to stop slavery. Her pure moral goodness is not going to do it. Newsflash! People have their own moral codes,and in the scheme of things, they are as tangible as yours, you don't get to will them away. And she's done little on that front, perhaps since that's the kind of thing you research before jumping on your high zorse.
A game of thrones is a stupid name because they only fight over one throne. This is possible becuase the Targaryens, Baratheons, Martells, Blackfyres and Lannisters all have claim to the throne. If a Targ gets back on the throne she can make everything that the Usurper did become null and void, thusly ending the hopes for Queen Myrcella, King Tommen, Queen Arianna, etc. Although in order for this to work at least 2 generations of Targ kings/queens have to go by smoothly
You could just assume that it's a term from before the Targaryens arrived. Phrases stay around for a while,I mean, this is a bad example because these things still exist, but in a house with only mobile phones, the phrase "hang up the phone" makes no sense without context.
Edited by Castel, 31 May 2012 - 07:20 PM.