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Boltons...


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#1 Uhtred Stark

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:21 AM

how did peopl so vile ever become noble?

Edited by Uhtred Stark, 21 June 2011 - 03:26 AM.


#2 Ferrous

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:32 AM

Ramesay is a complete monster but Roose isn't.

#3 Stannis' sense of humour

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:35 AM

They became noble because in the olden days, to become noble all you had to be was the toughest thug in the village...

#4 Uhtred Stark

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:35 AM

well hes a bit more reserved than his baseborn son but i wonder why the starks ever let them become a noble house when they are known for brutality

#5 Uhtred Stark

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:37 AM

true...

#6 Asha´s turnip

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:37 AM

Roose isn't??? What books have you been reading /stunned.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stunned:' /> ???

I think, in general, a family that wears cloaks portraying flayed human skin shouldn't be considered sane, but thats just my opinion.

#7 Ferrous

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:41 AM

well hes a bit more reserved than his baseborn son but i wonder why the starks ever let them become a noble house when they are known for brutality


Because the Starks weren't able to do anything?

The Starks weren't always rulers of the north and the Boltons were themselves once kings. The Boltons eventually did surrender to the Starks, presumbly on the condition that they would remain in control on their lands.

#8 Lummel

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:41 AM

You hate the Boltons?

Wow, they're one of the most popular families from the books on these boards. They are just like the Waltons:

"Good Night Ramsey"
"Good Night Roose"
"Good Night Reek"
**horrifying scream of pain**

#9 Ferrous

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:48 AM

Roose isn't??? What books have you been reading /stunned.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stunned:' /> ???

I think, in general, a family that wears cloaks portraying flayed human skin shouldn't be considered sane, but thats just my opinion.


Just because his ancestors thousands of years ago flayed humans (and because his son - who is also a necrophile) does, doesn't mean that Roose flays humans for entertainment. He wears the sigil of the house because it is the sigil of his house.

Roose in character is similar to Bronn where he is loyal until it is in his best interests to stop being loyal. Roose doesn't like the Starks though arguably he had a strong respect for Ned and respected Robb until his screwup with Jeyne Westerling.

#10 Corvinus

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:59 AM

no point in hating dead men /devil.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':devil:' />

#11 Lummel

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 04:21 AM

Just because his ancestors thousands of years ago flayed humans (and because his son - who is also a necrophile) does, doesn't mean that Roose flays humans for entertainment. He wears the sigil of the house because it is the sigil of his house.

Roose in character is similar to Bronn where he is loyal until it is in his best interests to stop being loyal. Roose doesn't like the Starks though arguably he had a strong respect for Ned and respected Robb until his screwup with Jeyne Westerling.


I don't see Roose as quite so mild mannered. He's not demonstrative like the Greatjon but he's a man to fear all the same. Arya and Roose in Harrenhall - Roose has servants whipped for talking to him without permission. Robb is scared of him. Catelyn realises, not for the first time what a cold man he is. He thinks it totally normal to receive a gift of flayed skin from Ramsey and thinks it's a totally appropriate and normal thing to give as a present to Catelyn, not just simply telling her 'we've got Theon and we're making him pay' or 'we caught Theon and he suffered before he died' but he gives her a piece of his skin in public where other northern lords can see what he's doing. Is there a clearer way of saying I'm a cold bastard, this is what I do to people in my power, cross me and see what you get?

Then you shall know the tree from the fruit. Roose is a cold man who exercises his authority - I can't see him allowing Ramsey (who wears a Bolton signet ring and has authority over Bolton men) to run about with Reek doing what he does to women without his father's consent - whether that consent is explicit or implicit he does what he wants only because his father allows him to.

Finally there is the spoiler chapter from ADWD that was on the Amazon website:
Spoiler


So I wouldn't think that Roose's idea of entertainment is exactly mainstream.

#12 mcb

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:51 AM

how did peopl so vile ever become noble?


You question kinda reminds me of "The Aristocrats" joke.

#13 Dark Sister

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:03 AM

They're all such perfect bastards. Personally, I can't wait to see how they portray Roose in the show. I always imagine the voice of Voldemort whenever I read his lines...

#14 Ferrous

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:08 AM

They're all such perfect bastards. Personally, I can't wait to see how they portray Roose in the show. I always imagine the voice of Voldemort whenever I read his lines...


The spoiler about Roose changes my mind about him being a monster.

Ralph Fiennes can play Roose, as shown by his portrayal of Amon Göth, but is obviously too expensive to consider.

#15 Faranya

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:08 AM

I don't really dislike Roose. I like him. He deserves to die for what he did, but I like him for some reason.

Ramsay is a crazy fucker, and I dislike him exceedingly.

#16 Ferrous

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:17 AM

I don't really dislike Roose. I like him. He deserves to die for what he did, but I like him for some reason.

Ramsay is a crazy fucker, and I dislike him exceedingly.


It could be because Roose only betrayed Robb when there became no reason to support him anymore. If Robb hadn't screwed up then Roose would have continued to support him.

I guess the main difference between Roose and Ramsay is that Roose is evil when it benefits him, but even then is more restrained with his evil, whilst Ramsay does it for amusement and goes the full monty.

#17 Asha´s turnip

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:41 AM

I don't see Roose as quite so mild mannered. He's not demonstrative like the Greatjon but he's a man to fear all the same. Arya and Roose in Harrenhall - Roose has servants whipped for talking to him without permission. Robb is scared of him. Catelyn realises, not for the first time what a cold man he is. He thinks it totally normal to receive a gift of flayed skin from Ramsey and thinks it's a totally appropriate and normal thing to give as a present to Catelyn, not just simply telling her 'we've got Theon and we're making him pay' or 'we caught Theon and he suffered before he died' but he gives her a piece of his skin in public where other northern lords can see what he's doing. Is there a clearer way of saying I'm a cold bastard, this is what I do to people in my power, cross me and see what you get?

Then you shall know the tree from the fruit. Roose is a cold man who exercises his authority - I can't see him allowing Ramsey (who wears a Bolton signet ring and has authority over Bolton men) to run about with Reek doing what he does to women without his father's consent - whether that consent is explicit or implicit he does what he wants only because his father allows him to.


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

I guess the main difference between Roose and Ramsay is that Roose is evil when it benefits him, but even then is more restrained with his evil, whilst Ramsay does it for amusement and goes the full monty.


Well, I think Roose is evil, period. And that he has learned to restrain his more evil tendencies in public, but finds "being evil" just as amusing as Ramsay.

I also believe that he would have found a way to betray Robb and seize control in the North even if Robb hadn't married Jeyne, because the North being undefended at that time just was too good a chance to pass up.

#18 Dark Sister

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:44 AM

It could be because Roose only betrayed Robb when there became no reason to support him anymore. If Robb hadn't screwed up then Roose would have continued to support him.

I guess the main difference between Roose and Ramsay is that Roose is evil when it benefits him, but even then is more restrained with his evil, whilst Ramsay does it for amusement and goes the full monty.


This is the distinction between Lawful Evil and Chaotic evil. /devil.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':devil:' />

#19 Ferrous

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:48 AM

This is the distinction between Lawful Evil and Chaotic evil. /devil.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':devil:' />


Roose would be more Neutral Evil, stabbing Robb Stark wasn't Lawful.

#20 Ferrous

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:58 AM

/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />



Well, I think Roose is evil, period. And that he has learned to restrain his more evil tendencies in public, but finds "being evil" just as amusing as Ramsay.

I also believe that he would have found a way to betray Robb and seize control in the North even if Robb hadn't married Jeyne, because the North being undefended at that time just was too good a chance to pass up.


Roose also served Ned loyally and well in two wars. He was also in a position where he was one of Ned's advisors.

Robb marrying Jeyne did more damage then just losing the Frey alliance. It created a precedence for Robb breaking agreements with his bannermen when it suits him.
It wasn't the only mistake he made either.

Given that Bolton and Starks are historic enemies, given that Robb Stark is a leader of a rebellion, given that it is now impossible for Robb to win this rebellion, the obvious move for Bolton would be to leave the rebellion, and obviously the advancement in power made this move even easier.

If Robb hadn't married Jeyne, than his position is still winnable as the Iron Islanders would not be able to hold on to the North for long. Marrying Jeyne however meant that his rebellion was screwed.