413 replies to this topic

[Galen M]

Agon Khan, on 05 July 2011 - 03:12 PM, said:

I think I believe it, though it makes me wonder two things.

1.  How Jon ended up with a Direwolf if he wasn't a son of Eddard Stark.
2.  How Jon burned his hand when he saved Lord Commander Mormont.

The other factors seem to add up pretty well.  I'm interested to see how GRRM resolves this mystery.

1. He has wolf blood by being Rickard Stark's grandson
2. GRRM has stated Targaryens are not immune to fire; just look at Dunk and Egg at Summerhall

[wallofice]

Galen M, on 05 July 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:

1. He has wolf blood by being Rickard Stark's grandson
2. GRRM has stated Targaryens are not immune to fire; just look at Dunk and Egg at Summerhall

1. He would also have wolf blood simply from being Lyanna Stark's son, I hope.  
2. Yup, exactly.

And, wow, I hadn't thought about the Aerys raping Lyanna possibility. That would be horrible, but also super extraneous unless Rhaegar and Lyanna were still in love and Aerys decided to teach his son a lesson or something gross.  

But, either way, I don't think the timing would work out as well for A + L = J.

[Galen M]

wallofice, on 05 July 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

1. He would also have wolf blood simply from being Lyanna Stark's son, I hope.  

I was trying to make a statement that holds for both RLJ and N?J.

[wallofice]

Galen M, on 05 July 2011 - 10:21 PM, said:

I was trying to make a statement that holds for both RLJ and N?J.

Ahhh, then that makes sense.  

[Aerion Brightflame]

Didn't read every page in the thread, so sorry if this gets off the most recent discussion, but as for how Howland Reed might come into play and reveal clues to Jon's parentage - when Bran and Rickon split up wasn't there talk of Rickon and Osha heading for Greywater Watch?  This could spark Howland Reed into moving out from the Crag and possibly getting involved directly in the story, or provide some other way for us to hear from Howland Reed.  Thoughts?

[wallofice]

Aerion Brightflame, on 06 July 2011 - 10:56 AM, said:

Didn't read every page in the thread, so sorry if this gets off the most recent discussion, but as for how Howland Reed might come into play and reveal clues to Jon's parentage - when Bran and Rickon split up wasn't there talk of Rickon and Osha heading for Greywater Watch?  This could spark Howland Reed into moving out from the Crag and possibly getting involved directly in the story, or provide some other way for us to hear from Howland Reed.  Thoughts?

I would love that, but I thought George R.R. Martin said he'd never do Howland's POV, so how would we know if Rickon and Osha were there?

Unless one of the 2 mystery POVs from ADWD happens to be someone in Greywater Watch...

Spoiler

The new POV character is Jon Connington, right? I'm not sure I'm remembering correctly, but is there any way he could be hiding out at Greywater Watch?

[Lady of Casterly Rock]

Aerion Brightflame, on 06 July 2011 - 10:56 AM, said:

Didn't read every page in the thread, so sorry if this gets off the most recent discussion, but as for how Howland Reed might come into play and reveal clues to Jon's parentage - when Bran and Rickon split up wasn't there talk of Rickon and Osha heading for Greywater Watch?  This could spark Howland Reed into moving out from the Crag and possibly getting involved directly in the story, or provide some other way for us to hear from Howland Reed.  Thoughts?

I don´t think so. Osha says: Belive I´ll try the East Gate, and follow the kings road at ways. Later Bran asks Meera: Will we got to your lord father? To Greywater Watch?

The plan was to split Bran and Rickon. If Bran assumes that his group could go to Greywater Watch, this means Rickon and Osha head towards another direction.

Robb send Lady Maege and Galbart Glover with messages for Howland Reed to Greywater Watch. Both know who is Robbs heir. If Robb named Jon, perhaps one of them or Howland Reed will try to contact Jon.

[Aegar]

I know I'm descending into crackpot territory, but maybe Howland is already in the story... I read somewhere about a theory that Jojen is actually Howland, and while it seems far fetched it could make some sense. And how convenient would that be? Maybe a little too convenient.

[Wik]

Aegar, on 06 July 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:

I know I'm descending into crackpot territory, but maybe Howland is already in the story... I read somewhere about a theory that Jojen is actually Howland, and while it seems far fetched it could make some sense. And how convenient would that be? Maybe a little too convenient.

But what would this add to the story? Jojen and Meera already know things their father has told them. They have imparted some of the knowledge to Bran. More is to come, or so I would assume.

Bran and Rickon went in completely separate directions. Bran went north and across the wall. Rickon, OBVIOUSLY then, went south. If you go south and slightly east from Winterfell, you come into the influence of Greywater Watch. I don't have an opinion one way or the other. It seems that while Rickon is part of the story, he has all but fallen off the map. Hopefully GRRM will at least gives us something solid with him, unlike, for example, Davos. It seems most plausible to me however, that as they traveled south and east, the Reed's skirmishers and fighters who have been tormenting the Ironborn would have stumbled onto Osha and Rickon.

The reality is, Reed is the last person to know what happened at the ToJ so if any of the speculation about Jon's parentage is correct, we have to have him or have a POV character around him to get his info. Who could that be? Not Jon, he is at the Wall. Not Stannis, not Mel. Not Bran, he is across the wall and with Cold Hands. Brienne is in the Riverlands, or the Reach, can't recall exactly. Jaimie is....hmmm I don't know. Last I recall was Riverrun. Basically, there isn't any POV characters we can rely on, with any dependability, to be with Howland. The fact of the matter is, Rickon is the only "important" character who is even in or around that region and he doesn't have a POV. The only other crack pot theory is somehow Theon gets out and ends up with the Reeds and learns of all this stuff, which I find highly unlikely.

[slayer420]

I know that all Targs are not fire proof, but does that hurt the case for jon being one that he burned his hand.

[Hodor Hodor]

I've got my own theory about Jon, (Tysha=Lyanna)+Tyrion=Jon. Thats right Jon Snow is tyrions son. How did this happen? Well Jamie mentions at the end of Storm that Tysha wasn't a whore, what if she was Lyanna? Well this would work if Lyanna ran away from Rhagar on their way past Lannisport, and Jamie and Tyrion rode by as Rhaegars men were chasing her. Jamie goes off, the men die, and Lyanna, in a desperate attempt to hide from Rhagar gets Tyrion to fall in love with her and hide her. Tywin finds out about her, but he thinks she is just some random girl so he gives her the money and she has sex with all those men to avoid them finding out about her. Tywin then DOES realize who she is so he sends her back to Rhaegar who also knocks her up and everyone thinks its his baby, even Ned, but Lyanna Knows. This explains why Tyrion got along so well with Jon when they were on the wall together. The biggest question is, who else is a child of Tyrions? He does love his whores.

[Dragonfish]

slayer420, on 06 July 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:

I know that all Targs are not fire proof, but does that hurt the case for jon being one that he burned his hand.

You've basically answered your own question.

[Galen M]

Hodor Hodor, on 06 July 2011 - 10:30 PM, said:

I've got my own theory about Jon, (Tysha=Lyanna)+Tyrion=Jon. Thats right Jon Snow is tyrions son. How did this happen? Well Jamie mentions at the end of Storm that Tysha wasn't a whore, what if she was Lyanna? Well this would work if Lyanna ran away from Rhagar on their way past Lannisport, and Jamie and Tyrion rode by as Rhaegars men were chasing her. Jamie goes off, the men die, and Lyanna, in a desperate attempt to hide from Rhagar gets Tyrion to fall in love with her and hide her. Tywin finds out about her, but he thinks she is just some random girl so he gives her the money and she has sex with all those men to avoid them finding out about her. Tywin then DOES realize who she is so he sends her back to Rhaegar who also knocks her up and everyone thinks its his baby, even Ned, but Lyanna Knows. This explains why Tyrion got along so well with Jon when they were on the wall together. The biggest question is, who else is a child of Tyrions? He does love his whores.

Your timeline is off by 3 years, and Lyanna is 6 years older than Tyrion.

[Aerion Brightflame]

wallofice, on 06 July 2011 - 11:36 AM, said:

I would love that, but I thought George R.R. Martin said he'd never do Howland's POV, so how would we know if Rickon and Osha were there?

Unless one of the 2 mystery POVs from ADWD happens to be someone in Greywater Watch...

Spoiler

The new POV character is Jon Connington, right? I'm not sure I'm remembering correctly, but is there any way he could be hiding out at Greywater Watch?

Yeah, but it wouldn't necessarily need a POV in there to show us Rickon and Osha showing up.  More like, Howland Reed comes down from the Neck and meets up with an existing POV, and through their meeting its made clear that the news from Osha and Rickon led to his leaving.  Perhaps on the Wall even, or a meeting with Bran, if he is going after his children, or going to meet them and Bran.  Jojen and Meera make it clear that there is still some Children of the Forest connection up in Greywater Watch, so it makes a lot of sense that Howland would know a lot about the Children, and possibly want to rendezvous with Bran and his kids, perhaps to help restore Bran to Ned's seat in Winterfell what with the growing threat of the Bolton's and this business of marrying the fake Arya to Ramsay Bolton.  He was a great friend of Ned's, so it wouldn't make sense for him to sit idly by in the Neck while the North is falling all around him and the Starks are being destroyed - might make a lot of sense for him to seek out Bran to help rally the North.

Edited by Aerion Brightflame, 07 July 2011 - 04:25 PM.

[Galen M]

Aerion Brightflame, on 06 July 2011 - 11:35 PM, said:

Yeah, but it wouldn't necessarily need a POV in there to show us Rickon and Osha showing up.  More like, Howland Reed comes down from the Crag and meets up with an existing POV

Crannogmen are from The Neck; Westerlings are from the Crag.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Galen M, on 06 July 2011 - 11:42 PM, said:

Crannogmen are from The Neck; Westerlings are from the Crag.

Right, yes, but you know what I mean.

[Arthanis]

[Hi, I'm new here]

Why Ashara Dayne commited suicide?
Therory (IMO Reason is logical and obvious:)

1. She have fallen in love in Eddar Stark
2. Eddar Stark was Loyal to Catelyn
3. Ashara told Eddar for some reason (she simply loved him, so she wanted to help him) the her broder Arthur is
4. Eddar went to Tower of Joy, Arthur was killed
5. Ashara thought she is responsible for her brother death, and she known she cannot live with men she love
6. Ashara killed herself

This theory do not support L+R=J theory directly, but IMO is good way of explaining some events.

[Whatever]

omg, i can't believe it.. i stopped checking the board for a couple of months and here's the 23 topic. wow

EDIT: i'll need to check the previous threads then! lol

Edited by Whatever, 08 July 2011 - 06:46 AM.

[DragonAge93]

The more I think of this theory, the more I believe it to be true. It really does make sense, so R+L=J has to be true. So in actuality, Eddard would be Jon's uncle and he his nephew.

[KyleLitke]

Arthanis, on 08 July 2011 - 01:30 AM, said:

[Hi, I'm new here]

Why Ashara Dayne commited suicide?
Therory (IMO Reason is logical and obvious:)

1. She have fallen in love in Eddar Stark
2. Eddar Stark was Loyal to Catelyn
3. Ashara told Eddar for some reason (she simply loved him, so she wanted to help him) the her broder Arthur is
4. Eddar went to Tower of Joy, Arthur was killed
5. Ashara thought she is responsible for her brother death, and she known she cannot live with men she love
6. Ashara killed herself

This theory do not support L+R=J theory directly, but IMO is good way of explaining some events.

I think that's definitely a possibility. We don't know how Eddard suddenly found out where Lyanna was, Ashara seems like a potential culprit for that.