Jaime Lannister's fate

[Lord of Dragonstone07]

No way. He tried to kill an eight year old, he murdered the innocent servants of Ned Stark only as a threat to him, he went to take charge of the siege of Riverrun after promising never to take arms against the Tullys, he threatened to throw a newborn child from a trebuchet. He has shown no remorse for any of those things.

He is certainly an interesting character, but still a depicable man.

About bran, imagine yourself as Jaime. Had Bran actually got away, and told about it to Ned or even worse, King Robert, it would not only have meant death for Jaime, but also for Cersei (Who he loved at that time), death for Tommen and Myrcella (Who really are nice kids) and even for Tyrion &Tywin. (I am pretty sure, Robert would have done that) . Murdering the innocent servants of Ned Stark? How about the fact Catelyn kidnapped Tyrion, who was definately innocent. And as for never taking arms against Tullys, technically he did find out a diplomatic solution to the problem right. I don't think he killed a single tully. And threats are made by everyone, even Tyrion threatened to have Tommen whipped.

[Lord of Dragonstone07]

Jaime didn't need to kill Aerys. He kills the first pyromancer and the second and third do not act without the order of Aerys. And later after King's Landing falls, Jaime kills those pyromancers anyways, without holding a trial or warning the city about the wildfire stashes and caches. Tyrion is the one who clears the city of the leftover wildfire and it is coincidental that he discovers the stashes. Had Jaime simply held Aerys hostage he could have saved the city as well. But he deliberately kills the Mad King because he knows that Aerys only took him as a Kingsgaurd to mess with Tywin. It's personal for Jaime. He didn't need to kill Aerys at all but he personally decides to kill him to excuse his own behavior in the past of overlooking Aery's insanity. Jaime feels dirty for watching Aerys burn people alive and rape the queen so he extracts his own personal revenge on the Mad King.

And right after Robert pardons Jaime and keeps him as a Kingsguard what does he do? He starts sleeping with Cersei and gives birth to Joffrey...which causes as much chaos as anything else we've seen in the story so far. Jaime even realizes that Joffrey was as mad as Aerys and thinks that his own son "deserved to die". So 'honorable' Jaime kills the Mad King and plots IMMEDIATELY to put his bastard incestuous offspring on the Iron Throne. And people think he's noble at that point?

I understand that people defend Jaime because he's an amazingly well written and deep character. He's one of my favorite characters without question. But he's probably one of the least honorable characters in the entire story. His exchange in Feast where he is verbally ripped into by Brynden Tully sums him up perfectly. He is a liar and an oathbreaker who conveniently kills the Mad King by stabbing him in the back so he can clear the way for a Lannister on the throne. Jaime even sits on the Iron Throne knowing fully that Cersei will likely produce a child to sit there one day.

And how stupid is Jaime not to disclose that there are giant dangerous stashes of wildfire littered around the city? Tyrion is furious that the pyromancers were storing wildfire near civilians as it could have caused thousands of deaths by accident. But Jaime? Once he gets his personal revenge on the Mad King at the three pyromancers he doesn't care at all about the civilians.

Um Jaime didn't need to kill Aerys? Why do you think Aerys would'nt send another Pyromancer? He kills them so there is no risk of letting the wild-fire burn by any chance.

Holding Aerys hostage? There were guards around the city. As luck would have it,, they were lannisters, but they could easily have been the targaryen Loyalists.

And he doesn't tell people about the wildfire, for the same reason he didnt tell people the true reason he killed aerys. A kingsguard takes his king's secrets to his grave.

It isn't revenge when a person kills someone for being bad to someone who they don't really care about. That's like calling it revenge when someone stands up to a bully, and stops him from bullying the other kids.

And Jaime had ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA that Cersei would marry Robert. I believe that decision was made AFTER the sack of King's Landing.

[The hairy bear]

About bran, imagine yourself as Jaime. Had Bran actually got away, and told about it to Ned or even worse, King Robert, it would not only have meant death for Jaime, but also for Cersei (Who he loved at that time), death for Tommen and Myrcella (Who really are nice kids) and even for Tyrion &Tywin. (I am pretty sure, Robert would have done that) .

The point is moot, since a decent man would never find himself in Jaime's place: he'd never fuck her queen (who happens to be her sister) and try to pass the children as the kings.

And still, the lack of remorse is very telling. If I found myself in a situation where I ended trying to kill an inocent 8 year boy, I'd have trouble thinking in anything else for a long time. It would fill me with shame and self-hatred every time I thought about it. Jaime remembers it casually without any particular feeling.

Murdering the innocent servants of Ned Stark? How about the fact Catelyn kidnapped Tyrion, who was definately innocent.

Seizing one man while in the Riverlands under clear a accusation and hold him for trial is one thing. Plain murder of serveral men just to "chastize" another one is, I'm sure you'll agree, a much worse and vile act.

Again, he nevers shows remorse.

And as for never taking arms against Tullys, technically he did find out a diplomatic solution to the problem right. I don't think he killed a single tully. And threats are made by everyone, even Tyrion threatened to have Tommen whipped.

Even if we are"technical", taking part in the siege of Riverrun (bringing a sword around) certainly qualifies as "taking arms against House Tully". He was actively limiting their freedom and starving them, under the threat of violence. Killing or not killing Tullys is besides the point.

Also, we are in his head during the POVs. We can see how he is decided to go rhtough with their threats if Riverrun doesn't surrender.

Jaime is very complex, full of contradictions, very fun to read about, and still, a depicable man.

[Lord of Dragonstone07]

He may have done the right thing in killing Aerys, but not the honorable thing, and it is not ME who says he's making up for breaking his oath as a Kingsguard, it is Jaime himself. He says repeatedly that the oath he made to Catelyn is one oath he will keep, hence the name given to Brienne's sword, referring to Jaime's oath not to take up arms against the Tullys and bring Sansa home. And as an aside, GRRM often presents situations where the honorable thing and the right thing diverge, and characters often pay dearly for doing the honorable thing.

But I want him to die a horrible death for what he did to Bran, with the incest thing running a distant second. Would love to see him reunite with Bran and Summer where the memory of what happened rushes back to Bran and he wargs into Summer to fully enjoy eviscerating Jaime and gorging on his bowels.

Funny enough, I think Jaime has already suffered for that. Think about it. Bran was almost defined by his legs. He was an excellent climber, runner, and wanted to become a Knight. He lost his legs. On the other hand, (Pun not intended) Jaime lost his hand, which definately defined him to the extent that he felt as if he lost his purpose in life when he lost his hand. Though I would still like for Jaime to meet Bran, and understand the full consequences of what has happened.

[Lord of Dragonstone07]

How can the right thing be dishonorable? I think this is impossible.

Of course it can be. If Eddard Stark had simply been smarter, Stannis would sit on the throne, before Joffrey could even touch it.

[Lord of Dragonstone07]

SO many people post super positive and very negative about Jaime. He is obviously a polarizing character. Here are the FACTS: he was sworn into the KG with an oath that said something about protecting his king with HIS LIFE. He killed that King and thus broke his oath. The king he served was crazy though so at what point is he absolved of that oath, if at all?

He pushed Bran out the window. Jaime clearly expected the boy to die. That is awful. BUT he is protecting his family who would have been killed if he didn't do that.

The reality is, Jaime is a grey character. A guy who has been in good spots and bad. He isn't a good guy. He isn't evil. He is out for himself, just like LF and so many others. He has tried to be forthright but life has a funny way of throwing a change up at you when you least expect it. All you can do is react and move on.

All that being said, if your someone who pulls for Dany, Jon, Jaime, Tyrion etc etc your going to be in trouble. Dany doesn't know much about Westeros but she knows about events, people etc from Viserys, Jorah and later, Selmly. Jaime has a bad rep from 2 of those 3 (Viserys and Selmly) and Jorah isn't going to "toss him a bone" either. Dany wants to get her throne back and she WILL remember the horrible things many of the rebels did. Maybe, through a connection she lets Jon, Bran etc etc continue on as normal. Same with the Tully's. But there is no way she is going to let Jaime, the man who murdered her father, for better or worse, go unscathed (should they end up meeting). I would go as far as to say that if ANY Lannister has offended the Targs the most, it would be Tywin and Jaime and you can't punish the dead, so that only leaves one....

AND THAT i think, is probably the truest post about Jaime i think. He is definately a grey character, though i really dislike it when people are completely negetive about him.

But than again, that's what makes Martin's story telling one of the best. Grey characters. No character is your typical prince or fairy, nor is anyone a demon or dark lord. (With the possible exception of Joffrey, i mean seriously, that guy has no excuse)

[Lord of Dragonstone07]

The last sentence in the Song of Ice and Fire will obviously be:

"Jaime Lannister sat down on the Iron Throne and waited to see who would come and claim it"

It is known

And i would cry out and jump out of my balcony.

[Lord of Dragonstone07]

I'm confident Jaime is the valonqar - the problem is, after killing Cersei (if Tommen and Myrcella are already dead), would his life have any meaning?

I like to think that he would have a long and prosper life far from Westeros, maybe with Brienne, but that's highly unlikely, specially if, like Tyrion, he becomes a kinslayer (as if he hadn't done enough to make everyone hate him). So, yes, I think he'll die after killing Cersei, in battle, maybe even an honorable death. And I'm hoping he'll leave a little bastard inside Brienne to be the future Lord of Tarth before dying.

In case Brienne dies before him, I'm hoping he'll become the 1000th Lord Commander of the NW.

I think that he will die strangling Cersei (As in maybe he holds her neck, and jumps of a balcony holding her or something). I think he is going to die, but die a heroic death.

[Stenjen Bark]

I feel like there needs to be some level of symmetry to Jaime's story to complete it. So I'm hoping one of these 3 end it:

- The Others reach King's Landing. To defeat them, and stop them getting further south, Jaime commands the city be burnt by wildfire. "Burn them all"

- After all the fighting is done, Jaime Lannister decides to sit on the Iron Throne and wait and see who turns up to claim it. Jon Snow walks in.

- Cersei goes crazy and demands the city be burnt by wildfire (we've already seen her obsession with the stuff and burning down the tower of the hand). Jaime kills her to stop her doing it.

I don't know why but I just feel like one of the above has to happen!

[Lord of Dragonstone07]

During my re-read, Jaime became probably my favorite character in the series. Sure, pushing Bran out the window was a horrible thing, but that was during the period when Jaime was more or less Cersei's puppet. She IS truly evil. And if he hadn't pushed Bran out the window, Bran wouldn't have been paralyzed and would just be off pursuing his dreams of knighthood somewhere instead of realizing his true, greenseeing potential. So in that sense, Jaime is almost an instrument of fate, which is why I think I'm able to get over it.

But there is the whole treason thing out there, and given the current state of his relationship with Cersei, he doesn't appear to have much of a future in King's Landing. Thus, I predict that he'll take the Black to put his past crimes behind him, and end up 1000th Commander of the Night's Watch. And if the Night's Watch turns out to be Lightbringer, well, that makes things interesting...

Ok here, i have to intervene. Cersei wanted to frighten Bran, she never wanted to kill/throw him down. I believe Jaime himself thinks that in Storm of Swords.

[WSmith84]

I find Jaime to be a very interesting character and his chapters are always fun to read, but he's definitely not a hero.

He pushed a boy out of a window. I know why he did it (though I don't think that he was acting out of concern for Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella) but the fact remains; he tried to kill an innocent child. He shows no regret for this action, except in terms of the bother it caused and because it made Cersei angry with him.

There was also this passage I'd forgotten when I reread A Feast for Crows:

"As I was fucking her, Cersei cried, 'I want.' I thought that she meant me, but it was the Stark girl she wanted, maimed or dead. It was only by chance that Stark's own men found the girl before me. If I had come on her first..."

Here, he is talking to Ilyn Payne about the incident with Arya Stark, Nymeria and Joffrey. Cersei wanted Arya to have her hand cut off for striking Joffrey. Jaime is basically admitting that if he had found Arya, he would probably have either maimed or killed her, and since maiming her would have caused a lot of trouble (who knows how Ned and Robert would have reacted?) I imagine Jaime would have killed her and hid the body. This guy is definitely not a hero.

[Snows Queen]

I felt what Jamie did to Bran was awful. BUT as the story goes on I wonder if there wasn't some stronger force at play here, considering what Bran has to become. If Bran had not lost the use of his legs he would not have willingly gone to live in a cave with a ghost in a tree. He wanted to be a knight and would have acted accordingly. AND he would have been in KL when Ned was arrested etc. Yes, what Jamie did was wrong but it most likely saved his life. We know that was not Jamie's intention but it worked.

[Dofs]

Ok here, i have to intervene. Cersei wanted to frighten Bran, she never wanted to kill/throw him down. I believe Jaime himself thinks that in Storm of Swords.

Sorry, no. When Cersei glimpsed Bran, she started to cry 'he saw us!'. When Jaime initially saved Bran, she cried 'what are you doing!'. These are hardly the words that mean she didn't want Bran to fall. When Cersei started arguing with Jaime about this, it's only when she had found out that Bran survived. She was perfectly fine when she had thought that Bran was dead. This is just a classical example of Cersei's hypocrisy.

[Sun]

I've said this before, that I have no idea. But if I were laying odds, I would lay them on Jaime surviving the LS encounter. His arc is incomplete. When/if Jaime dies, he will have accomplished something, not sure what, but something essential to the central plot.

[D.mcmullen51]

No way. He tried to kill an eight year old, he murdered the innocent servants of Ned Stark only as a threat to him, he went to take charge of the siege of Riverrun after promising never to take arms against the Tullys, he threatened to throw a newborn child from a trebuchet. He has shown no remorse for any of those things.

He is certainly an interesting character, but still a depicable man.

Jon also threatened to kill a baby but jon snow is hardly despicable for doing that but your other points are valid except for the siege on riverrun because he didn't take up arms against the tullys

[spoon89]

I feel like there needs to be some level of symmetry to Jaime's story to complete it. So I'm hoping one of these 3 end it:

 

- The Others reach King's Landing. To defeat them, and stop them getting further south, Jaime commands the city be burnt by wildfire. "Burn them all"

- After all the fighting is done, Jaime Lannister decides to sit on the Iron Throne and wait and see who turns up to claim it. Jon Snow walks in.

- Cersei goes crazy and demands the city be burnt by wildfire (we've already seen her obsession with the stuff and burning down the tower of the hand). Jaime kills her to stop her doing it.

 

I don't know why but I just feel like one of the above has to happen!

 

My likely guess is that a combination of two of your guess happen.

 

Cersei unleashes wildfire plot 2.0, Jamie kills her for doing it (possibly sparing Kings Landing proper, but unable to stop the Red keep from burning), and then sits on the IT as the RK burns down around him (if not all of KL).

[Petyr_Baelish_is_cool]

The last sentence in the Song of Ice and Fire will obviously be:

"Jaime Lannister sat down on the Iron Throne and waited to see who would come and claim it"

It is known

I like it. It will be perfect.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Jaime does not regret slaying the king but he does regret failing to protect Rhaegar's wee bairns. He's going to jump at the chance to seat Aegon on the throne. He's foreshadowed to play the role of kingmaker, and he's the leading candidate to be Cersei's valonqar. Aegon will not want him on his Kingsguard, but I think he'll be allowed to take the black.

[purple-eyes]

he will die for sure and he will be remembered by readers as a tragic hero just like Maedhros son of Feanor.

By the way, Maedhros the tall is one of my favorite characters in Tolkien world.  

[Prince Lou of House Reed]

This whole argument that Jaime should give two shits about the Starks is crazy to me. First off he hates Ned they've been beefing since he killed Aerys even though he killed the dude who viciously murdered Ned's father and brother but yeah he broke a vow so fuck him. Supposedly Ned is lying to his best friend and King about Jon which is okay but God forbid a kingsguard kills his idiot King he's been forced to suffer for years who's been using him since day one and causing him PSTD. Not to mention was going to burn everyone alive, did Ned even try to talk to Jaime about it? Should he just been a kinslayer instead and bring Tywins head to Aerys cause that's what he was ordered to do so no big deal. Robert didn't even care and kept him in the KG. Why would he like the Stark family especially after being held a prisoner in his own filth for a year and after being released loses his hand in the process.